Unable to upgrade?

[hempomatic]

I have a 2020 13" MBP. Am I correct that NOTHING can be upgraded? I've been told that 16 gig of RAM is simply not enough for effective photo editing and that's why my computer crashes so frequently (1 to 3 times a day). I have 350 gig still free on the SSD. My SSD is only 1 TB. That can't be upgraded either? My photos are uncompressed RAW files and they really chew up storage pretty quickly. If I upgraded an older machine to 32gig and a 3 or 4TB drive, would that be more effective for my purposes?

 

[pigoo3]

I have a 2020 13" MBP. Am I correct that NOTHING can be upgraded?

RAM is definitely not upgradeable.

I've been told that 16 gig of RAM is simply not enough for effective photo editing and that's why my computer crashes so frequently (1 to 3 times a day).

This really depends on what sort of photo editing someone is doing...and how many photo editing apps are open at the same time.

Someone who's an amateur or semi-professional photo editor...and maybe only has 1-2 photo editing apps open at the same time...would probably have no issues with 16GB RAM.

Someone who's a professional photo editor with many photo editing apps open at the same time...there's probably not limit to how much RAM, SSD storage, or CPU/GPU power they can get.

My main point is...stating that 16GB of RAM is "not enough for effective photo editing" covers a lot of ground (amateurs to professionals). I'm sure 16GB RAM is fine for many folks (I'm sure many folks do ok with 8GB RAM)...but 16GB RAM may not be enough for professionals (who need to crank-out the photo editing projects quickly to make $$$$ to pay the bills)!

I will say that I've seen many many YouTube reviews of the new M1 based Apple computers. Many of these video reviews have involved both photo & video editing (at the semi-professional/professional level).

Many of these videos conclude that almost any M1 based Apple computer with 16GB of RAM absolutely blows away any previous Intel based Apple computer (including 2020 MacBook Pro's). Even the M1 Mac-Mini!

Maybe it's time to upgrade to an M1 based Apple computer!

Nick

p.s. Thread moved to better area. Definitely a hardware discussion (was originally posted in the macOS area).

 

[Raz0rEdge]

16GB of memory and use of it wouldn't lead to crashes.

Did you purchase this machine knowing what you were going to use it for or vice versa. If the latter, then it doesn't make much sense blaming the machine for not supporting a workflow that it wasn't equipped to.

As Nick stated, there are different scales of photo editing that might or might not be possible with that machine.

A lot of the latest Macs are not upgradable post-purchase. The pros/cons of that aren't worth debating, it's the reality of how Apple is selling right now.

So if you're finding the MBP doesn't fit your current workflow and you have AppleCare that covers it for another year or so, you might want to think about selling it for decent money and putting that toward another Mac that might suit you better.

 

[hempomatic]

Well, the M1 is unfortunately out of the question financially.

As far as workflow, I'm just a hobbyist and I never have more than 1 editing program running at a time. When I bought this machine less than 2 years ago, I assumed it would be fine editing since my 2012 machine upgraded to a SSD with 16 gig of RAM performed flawlessly until the CPU crapped out. I assumed a newer machine with a newer OS, a faster i7 chip and faster RAM would work better. I don't have Apple care, or an Apple store less than 150 miles away.

This purchase was also a month or two before the M1 machines came out.

 

[badshoehabit]

Do you really need to use RAW or is this merely habit? I'm a hobby photographer and can't be doing with RAW. I find Photos gives me 95% of required edits with jpg though I bought Affinity Photo for the odd time I want to merge images. I have 55k images on my MBP and it only slows if I do touch up too fast.

 

[lclev]

No your MBP is not upgradeable... sorry!

Before I bought my M1 MBP I had a 2020 13" i7 MBP. I did have 32GB in it but still with 16GB you should not be having so many crashes. Using RAW files will tax any machine but crashes are another issue. What I would expect you to be seeing with any large file issues is a slow machine but it still should not be crashing. Also it should be able to handle RAW files if you keep them to only one or two open at a time.

It might be helpful to post any crash reports. You don't say what you are using to edit photos. Also opening up the Activity Monitor take a look at what is using the memory and cpu. You could be having something else that is eating up your memory or cpu.

Lisa

 

[Groovetube]

I’ve done a ton of photo editing (Have used RAW but these days I just do jpg) on a 2013 mbp 16gigs ram 1tb I don’t think it ever crashed. Plenty power really. Of course now I have a new m1max machine and I never worry about power, but your 2020 machine with those specs should def not be crashing in my opinion.

 

[IWT]

I have a 2020 13" MBP. Am I correct that NOTHING can be upgraded? I've been told that 16 gig of RAM is simply not enough for effective photo editing and that's why my computer crashes so frequently (1 to 3 times a day). I have 350 gig still free on the SSD. My SSD is only 1 TB. That can't be upgraded either? My photos are uncompressed RAW files and they really chew up storage pretty quickly. If I upgraded an older machine to 32gig and a 3 or 4TB drive, would that be more effective for my purposes?

Going back to your first post. I think there's more going on here than just photo editing and 16GB of RAM.

Others have sagely commented in general ways and also reflected on their own experience with photo editing, including RAW files.

For reasons of finance and obsolete apps, I still retain an iMac running High Sierra. Aperture more or less disappeared after that and an app called OsiriX, which is a DICOM editor and work station, is enormously expensive to update or upgrade (Licence around £850/year!!).

On that old iMac, I constantly edit huge RAW files of medical imaging. The Aperture database is well over 200GB. Although I do have 32GB of RAM, CPU/GPU are old hat and I push that iMac a great deal. There are occasional "slows" of seconds duration. And my OsiriX work station handles all these with ease. Never had a computer crash.

Yours crashes "1-3 times a day". I can't believe it's just the RAM. Have you run a hardware test to establish that the RAM is working properly? And we presume you've rebooted the Mac.

What editing apps do you use? You say that you never have more than one running at a time - not even in the background?

You say you have about 35% of free space on your Mac's SSD. That should be sufficient (about 20-25% is the least).

Sue pointed out that modern editing software, including the Photos app is close to achieving top rate editing without the need of RAW files. As you are a hobbyist - good for you - why not dispense with RAW and film in the highest JPEG your camera permits?

I feel you could solve your problem without undue expense by changing your practice - no RAW and use Photos app for most of the editing.

Ian

 

[Randy B. Singer]

I've been told that 16 gig of RAM is simply not enough for effective photo editing and that's why my computer crashes so frequently (1 to 3 times a day).

Sounds to me like some moron fed you BS because they aren't smart enough to actually help you. Are you receiving "out of memory" warnings?

Under what conditions does your Mac crash? (Which applications are open, how many are open, etc.)

What do you mean by "crash"? (Does your Mac give an error message? Does it shut down completely or re-start? Does an application just quit?)

I'd do some troubleshooting.

Test your RAM with this free utility:

Rember (free)
http://www.kelleycomputing.net/downloads

Run this free (but fully functional) demo of this program to test your hard drive:

DriveDX - free demo
https://binaryfruit.com/

Test the rest of your hardware with this free utility from Apple:

Apple Diagnostics
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202731

Do you have fully interactive anti-virus software installed? (If so, fully uninstall it and see if that helps.)

If none of the above prove useful, look at the suggestions on this Web site:
http://www.macattorney.com/rbb.html

 

[hempomatic]

OK, just a couple of quick points. This is the IDENTICAL configuration I used on my 2012 MBP with regard to SSD and RAM. The old machine was an i5, this one is an i7. The 2012 machine ran for years and never crashed once. I'm well aware that RAW files are more taxing than than JPEGs, but my work flow has never changed. The ONLY change was to a faster newer computer and a newer OS.

RAW files are have more detail, superior dynamic contrast and a bit more latitude with regard to capturing detail in shadows if editing is required. The primary program I use is Photos for 95% of my edits, but I also have Affinity Photo and occasionally (rarely) use "Sony Edit". I never use them at the same time, nor do I ever do batch edits.

Also, that is the ONLY thing I use the computer for. I use a 15 year old Kindle for everything else. Ridiculously slow, but reliable.

I've tested the hardware and check activity monitor regularly. The attached captures are typical. The spike represents opening Photos, then opening Affinity. As far as re-booting, it does that on it's own, or simply locks up so I have to hard re-boot. After a hard re-boot when I check memory and CPU load, they are at minimum use. A friend will be working across the street from an Apple store and will be dropping it off at the genius bar, so we'll see if they can find an issue. I'll know in a day or two.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

A friend will be working across the street from an Apple store and will be dropping it off at the genius bar, so we'll see if they can find an issue. I'll know in a day or two.

I've generally found Activity Monitor to be close to worthless. The Mac is very smart with regard to memory management. The information that Activity Monitor gives you is mostly irrelevant no matter what it seems to be reporting.

You might want to actually try the things that I suggested in my post, above. They are all free, easy to do, and they don't take a huge amount of time. One of them might tell you exactly what's wrong, or it might give you some relevant information to tell the genius at the Apple Store to help him figure out what's wrong.

If you have anti-virus software installed, uninstalling (fully, with an uninstaller) it would be the first thing to try.

 

[hempomatic]

Sounds to me like some moron fed you BS because they aren't smart enough to actually help you. Are you receiving "out of memory" warnings?

Under what conditions does your Mac crash? (Which applications are open, how many are open, etc.)

What do you mean by "crash"? (Does your Mac give an error message? Does it shut down completely or re-start? Does an application just quit?)

I'd do some troubleshooting.

Test your RAM with this free utility:

Rember (free)
Kelley Computing

Run this free (but fully functional) demo of this program to test your hard drive:

DriveDX - free demo
BinaryFruit - we make fruitful software!

Test the rest of your hardware with this free utility from Apple:

Apple Diagnostics
Use Apple Diagnostics to test your Mac

Do you have fully interactive anti-virus software installed? (If so, fully uninstall it and see if that helps.)

If none of the above prove useful, look at the suggestions on this Web site:
Macintosh OS X Beachballs!

Given the fact that my older 2012 MBP with 16 gig of RAM, never had an issue, never crashed, and was 100% reliable until the CPU bit the dust, I agree with you as far as 16 gig being somehow deficient. I've never had an out of memory message. As a matter of fact, checking memory on activity monitor, it barely even uses the swap file. I've done all that Randy, I've used each of those diagnostic programs. I have no virus programs. By crash, I'm encompassing everything that stops the computer. Sometimes it simply locks up mid program, other times I get an error report that I send to Apple. Occasionally, I just have a blank screen where nothing happens and I have to hard re-boot. Occasionally (rarely) it re-boots on it's own.

We'll see what the Genius Bar discovers.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

If I had to make a WAG (wild ass guess), it sounds to me as if one of the registers in your RAM is bad. However, running Rember would have found that.

My second WAG...I know that this sounds silly, is that you have a problem with a USB device or cable. The symptoms that you are describing are exactly what happens when you have a USB device that your Mac isn't getting along with, most often a cheap USB hub.

I'll look forward to hearing what your Apple Genius has to say.

 

[hempomatic]

No problem with a WAG What is it they say? "If the probable has been eliminated, only the improbable is left" ..... or something like that.

I have no USB hub. My camera is the only USB device. I use a different USB port each time to avoid wearing one out. Yes I know how silly that sounds.

 

[IWT]

I use is Photos for 95% of my edits, but I also have Affinity Photo

The spike represents opening Photos, then opening Affinity.

I wonder how you Open Affinity? Reason I ask is: did you know that you can integrate Affinity into the Photos app so you don't need to open it separately?

This screenshot shows my situation:



When in "Edit" mode, I click on the circle with the three dots and it brings up all these Affinity tools.

Right at the bottom of that window is this:



Assuming you have not yet integrated Affinity, this is what you do. Click on "Manage"

This will open this Window on your Mac:



Click on Photos Editing and select, by tick, the Affinity tools you wish. BTW, this also includes any photos apps, such as Dx ) Optics, Markup, Snapheal, Skitch, Intensify CK, Noiseless CK and more.

Of course you have to own these apps in the first place; but what I'm saying is that Affinity and lots of others can be integrated into the Photos app, where, within Edit, you can select your choice by clicking on the Circle with the three dots.

Ian

 

[hempomatic]

I wonder how you Open Affinity? Reason I ask is: did you know that you can integrate Affinity into the Photos app so you don't need to open it separately?

This screenshot shows my situation:

View attachment 36380

When in "Edit" mode, I click on the circle with the three dots and it brings up all these Affinity tools.

Right at the bottom of that window is this:

View attachment 36381

Assuming you have not yet integrated Affinity, this is what you do. Click on "Manage"

This will open this Window on your Mac:

View attachment 36382

Click on Photos Editing and select, by tick, the Affinity tools you wish. BTW, this also includes any photos apps, such as Dx ) Optics, Markup, Snapheal, Skitch, Intensify CK, Noiseless CK and more.

Of course you have to own these apps in the first place; but what I'm saying is that Affinity and lots of others can be integrated into the Photos app, where, within Edit, you can select your choice by clicking on the Circle with the three dots.

Ian

Thanks Ian. That is the way I'm set up. I run Affinity as a plug in.

 

[ferrarr]

Have you tried a clean fresh macOS install on the newer Mac? The way you explained it, you migrated your data from your old Mac to the new Mac?

Or you may be able to get the same results with a new user account on the new Mac?

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Have you tried a clean fresh macOS install on the newer Mac? The way you explained it, you migrated your data from your old Mac to the new Mac?

Or you may be able to get the same results with a new user account on the new Mac?

Literally what I was about to suggest. Sometimes a clean reinstall is the best, if not only, thing to do.

Before going there, try using Onyx’s full suite of cache cleaning tools and some other options it has. Maybe there’s simply a corrupt cache. Also, I don’t recall if this was asked, but a report from EtreCheck may be enlightening.

 

[hempomatic]

Literally what I was about to suggest. Sometimes a clean reinstall is the best, if not only, thing to do.

Before going there, try using Onyx’s full suite of cache cleaning tools and some other options it has. Maybe there’s simply a corrupt cache. Also, I don’t recall if this was asked, but a report from EtreCheck may be enlightening.

I've tried most of the diagnostic and system information programs including Onyx. No malware, no program issues, no file structure issues.

I'd LOVE to do a clean install, but I'm unable to back the computer up. Super Duper just keeps churning away and eventually just crashes (locks the computer up requiring hard re-boot) and Time Machine isn't even found.

The only thing I need to salvage is my Photos library, but I'm unable to do that.

Everyone has been remarkably patient and helpful, but I'm fairly confident that this computer is simply a loss. I'm paranoid about even turning it on for fear of corrupting what's left of my Photos Library.

 

[ferrarr]

Did you test with a new user account on the new Mac?