iMac M1 Monterey running slowly.

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Than Time Machine backups.


- Patrick
=======
Interesting. I've never had a TM backup fail, except when I tried putting it in a networked drive and it shifted to sparcebundle format. I take it you have had issues with TM?
 
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Ta for all of the replies floks.

It was a clean TM start for this new machine when it came with Big Sur, but I am not too sure if that carried on over to Monterey? It seems that a lot has happened since then. OS 11.6.1 to 12.0.1 and then 12.1, all within 2 months. Almost too much for my brain cell to cope with?

I will wipe theT M and start anew me-thinks.

Definitely the keyboard SD (y) (y)
 

IWT


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John,

After you've wiped the current TM Hard Drive, remember to Format it APFS.

(The "old" format of Mac OS X Extended (Journaled) does not work with TM anymore with the latest systems)

Ian
 
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No choice on that Ian as APFS is the only option. On Disk Utilities - Erase it shows the format as not encripted. It would not do the erase and said that the disk wasn't mounted and it wouldn't do the erase until I had done a reboot.

Screenshot 2021-12-18 at 10.00.30.png

But I had selected it as encryptred andf it shows as such on the Get Information window

Screenshot 2021-12-18 at 10.00.52.png

But even after I have erased it it still will not start the T M backup

Screenshot 2021-12-18 at 09.58.13.png

The T M disk shows in Finder OK

Screenshot 2021-12-18 at 10.06.19.png

So I'm still stuffed and even more confusticated, if that's possible? :unsure:
( even the smilies don't line up properly:oops: )
 
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I had forgotten to say above that even although the T M disk shows up in finder and I was able to erase it ready for the backup I have now also tried connecting it to a different USB post with a different cable.

I don't see how that could be effecting the situation, but it had to be worth a try.

I am beginning to think that I should have stayed with Big Sur? At least everything worked as it should and at the moment the old expression comes to mind.

"As user friendly as a cornered rat".
 
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...CCC and SuperDuper both will not create a bootable clone if the machine is running Monterey.

As of a few weeks ago, BOTH can now create a fully functional bootable external backup clone under Monterey. Both companies worked directly with Apple to make this happen.

Just be aware that a clone is not as useful in the Mx Macs. ...You can't boot from an external if the internal storage has hardware issues

A clone is as useful as any other type of backup, and probably much more so.

It's true that you can't boot from a bootable clone if your M1x-based Mac has a dead internal SSD. But if your internal SSD in your M1x-based Mac is dead, YOUR ENTIRE MAC IS DEAD FOR EVERY SINGLE PURPOSE. It won't run again, for any purpose, unless you get it repaired. (Likely requiring a replacement motherboard.) That's not a failing of your clone backup (or any other sort of backup), it is completely how your M1x-based Mac is.

Your bootable clone backup will still work to boot up a different Mac (allowing you to get back to work immediately), assuming that your OS is compatible with that other Mac (so your clone backup may actually be much more valuable than a TimeMachine backup, which you can't boot and immediately work from), and your bootable clone backup will still work with your M1x-based Mac once it is repaired.
 
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I have created another T M hdd and it seems to be running OK at the moment. So it seems that there may well be a problem with the original HDD. Made more possible as it getting a little old and if that is the case then much better to find out now than when it's needed!

Meanwhile, back to rebuild my dry stone wall :oops:
 

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John, don't mean to be picky, but why do you want to format your TM backup drive to APFS case-sensitive encrypted?

I would say that probably 99% of us would just use APFS. And yes, it will Erase the drive first, then format as APFS. That's the standard.

Ian
 
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I had read somewhere (?) that it was the better option, as long as I don't forget the password !!!

Are there any downsides at all? Don't forget that you could write what I know about software on the back of a postage stamp in 4" letters.
 
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As of a few weeks ago, BOTH can now create a fully functional bootable external backup clone under Monterey. Both companies worked directly with Apple to make this happen.



A clone is as useful as any other type of backup, and probably much more so.

It's true that you can't boot from a bootable clone if your M1x-based Mac has a dead internal SSD. But if your internal SSD in your M1x-based Mac is dead, YOUR ENTIRE MAC IS DEAD FOR EVERY SINGLE PURPOSE. It won't run again, for any purpose, unless you get it repaired. (Likely requiring a replacement motherboard.) That's not a failing of your clone backup (or any other sort of backup), it is completely how your M1x-based Mac is.

Your bootable clone backup will still work to boot up a different Mac (allowing you to get back to work immediately), assuming that your OS is compatible with that other Mac (so your clone backup may actually be much more valuable than a TimeMachine backup, which you can't boot and immediately work from), and your bootable clone backup will still work with your M1x-based Mac once it is repaired.
Randy, what you say is true, but it is important to note that the biggest difference in how clones work now is the fact that in the past, under Intel architecture, if the internal storage failed (hardware), you could use a clone to immediately reboot the machine. That is no longer true on Apple Silicon. Most of us, I venture, do not have a different Mac, also Apple Silicon, from which to boot if the storage fails in the machine. In addition, the boot process now involves an "owner" of a drive, so the clone has to be the only partition on the external drive or the ownership gets in the way. ( When you can’t restart an M1 Mac from an external disk ) Note that in the article referenced he said, in part:

"The workaround is to select the internal SSD as the boot volume, restart from that, and there use the Startup Disk pane to change the boot volume."

Even changing the boot drive is more complex in Monterey on Mx Macs. ( How Recovery works on M1 series Macs ) So, to change boot volume, a user may have to boot from the internal to change the boot drive. And if the internal cannot be booted because of hardware, that won't be possible. As you say, if the internal storage fails the entire system is dead. And that makes the clones slightly less useful because in the Intel archictecture, a hardware storage failure did not make the entire computer dead. Whereas before a clone could boot a machine with hardware storage failure, now it cannot.

So, while a clone is useful, I still think it is not so useful as it was under the Intel architecture.

What I have done is shift the clone process to clone only my Data Volume. I don't bother with any system backups because the secure enclave holds system files and now has a new process to re-install the OS called EACAS: ( Erase All Contents and Settings: prepare your Mac for disposal and more ). If I end up with a corrupted internal drive, I'll use EACAS to wipe it out, reinstall the OS and then restore from my TM backup, or clone backup. I've already done that once and it worked perfectly (and much quicker than the old restore method).

Now, as you said, if you have multiple Mx Macs, then a bootable clone could be used with one of those to get going again. Boot from the internal on that replacement, set the boot drive to the external and then reboot from the external and you are back in action. Just remember that you will need to reset the boot drive back to the internal when you are done with the backup there.
 
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I take it you have had issues with TM?

That's a good summation Jake, but maybe I should add the problems with TM I have been exposed to has been with problems other users have experienced.
But neither am I exactly ecstatic over the way it works and it seems to be prone to corruption compared to other methods.


- Patrick
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it seems to be prone to corruption compared to other methods.
Patrick, my own observation is that most of the problems with TM are user-induced. Because Finder can open and display what is in the TM backup, naive users think it's just another drive full of files. When they reach into that set of links and make a change, the backup is damaged, usually pretty badly, by broken links. It may have been better if Apple just didn't allow that to happen, but it's not really a software issue as much as a user issue. Except for network drives, I've never seen TM fail for me.

As a side note, TM changed significantly in Monterey to where it stores snapshots of the system instead of the heavily linked setup of earlier versions. Maybe that will reduce the number of user-induced issues.
 

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As of a few weeks ago, BOTH can now create a fully functional bootable external backup clone under Monterey. Both companies worked directly with Apple to make this happen.
I'm going to test this. As of several weeks ago neither CCC or SuperDuper (I tried both) would create a bootable clone. Both apps seemed as if they were working but when it came time to try booting from the clone, they failed. Instead the system hung up and eventually booted from the internal Macintosh SSD.

Will let you know.

As a side note, TM changed significantly in Monterey to where it stores snapshots of the system instead of the heavily linked setup of earlier versions. Maybe that will reduce the number of user-induced issues.

It's also interesting to note that with Monterey Time Machine replaces the previous snapshot with the latest it created. At least that has been my observation. Previously, snapshots would accumulate.
 

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As of a few weeks ago, BOTH can now create a fully functional bootable external backup clone under Monterey. Both companies worked directly with Apple to make this happen.

I just tested this. CCC appears to create a bootable clone and the system actually tries to boot from the "clone" but hangs up about halfway thru the boot process. It then halts and instead boots from the internal SSD. The same result I experienced several weeks ago.

And by the way, this test was done with a clean Samsung T5 SSD.

I haven't tested using SuperDuper but suspect the same thing will happen.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone else in our forums if it works for them.
 
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It's also interesting to note that with Monterey Time Machine replaces the previous snapshot with the latest it created. At least that has been my observation. Previously, snapshots would accumulate.
Mine accumulate. There are dated folders on the TM backup drive that can be opened and the contents explored with Finder. I use TimeMachineEditor to schedule backups twice daily, but the consolidation that TM does to cull backups works and they are one week apart after a month.

Screen Shot 2021-12-18 at 4.31.59 PM.png
 

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I manually schedule my Time Machine backups to every other day once a day. Perhaps that may be why the snapshots are not accumulating.
 
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How do you just schedule T M for one a day? The only things I have seen are every hour and for me that is WAY OTT !

In fact one a week wouldn't be a bad idea because we don't make many changes to the sytem. A few photos or new web sited, but not enough for what it's doing at the moment.
 

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Hey John:

You can use the Time Machine Editor that Jake referred to above.


Or, you can set a reminder with your "reminders.app" to backup at a certain time once a day or every Mon, Wed, Fri, whenever.
 
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TME, as Charlie said, can do what you want. I have it set to run at noon and midnight. I may cut that to once a day, but it doesn't interfere with what I am doing at the time, so there isn't any harm letting it do what it's doing now. And it works on Monterey, so that's a good thing.
 
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So, while a clone is useful, I still think it is not so useful as it was under the Intel architecture.

True, but I think that the admonition is overblown. A clone is still a wildly useful thing to have. It can save all of your data in the event that your main Mac fails, and let you continue your work on another Mac instantly.

While it can no longer allow you to continue your work on your main Mac if your internal SSD fails, that is going to be an increasingly rare event. M1x-based Macs have their SSD's as an integrated part of the main CPU chip package. The SSD's chips are very high quality and they should last very roughly about 20 years (and sometimes much longer), assuming that one doesn't purchase an SSD that is too small for their needs and fills it up.

From my viewpoint, having an external clone backup is absolutely vital if your data and your work are important.
 

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