Windows users, im crying

[johnny5w]

I live in LA, and have worked with some of the more prominent producers and engineers in the industry including those who produced, mixed and recorded Thrice, The Used, LoveHateHero, Jupiter Sunrise, The Hanks, Clear Static, The Killers, Foo Fighters, Selegna Sol, From First to Last, and Saosin.

It is commonly known that most FL Digi 002 engineers use PC laptops over PowerBooks.

A $1300 PC laptop w/ 512 RAM and stock 4200 HD gets 32+18 (DaveC)
A Dual 1.8 G5 w/ 2.5GB RAM and stock 7200 8MB Buffer SATA HD has trouble pulling 31.

This is generally understood amongst us tech artists in LA... I don't know what’s up with you guys in Connecticut.

Don't take my word for it, check out the digidesign forums.

Oh and if PC users shouldn't talk garbage about Macs, why should you be able to talk garbage about PCs? I've read more PC flaming in this single thread then I've ever read on an entire educated PC forum.

Macs aren't better guys. I'd hate to break it to you.

Sorry, I guess I need to clarify. I was referring more to musicians and industry people. But still... producers working on laptops? What about full on producers? Of course many have PC's for mixing/mastering aspects. I guess when you generalize you get generalizations thrown back. I do agree though with the sentiment "Macs arent better." I've been in both worlds for a while and see the advantages of each. The arrogance and pig-headedness of both the Mac zealot and the PC zealot is laughable. It's just that, in my experience, more people in music (and I mean musicians/industry people more than producers) use Macs than PC's.

 

[Echo_]

mac osx is great but windows xp isnt that bad... my pc has never crashed and i dont get really any sort of spyware/virus, and its not sluggish at all
then again its almost top of the line
amd 3500+ socket 939
6800gt
1 gig of dual channel ram

heres how i see it
most of america are stupid when it comes to computers. they buy a crappy windows oem machine and think they know everything about computers.
then you have a small percent of people that have macs but dont really understand all the parts etc, as long as it runs theyre happy.

then you have the people that build computers that run windows and linux and also understand that macs are great

 

[technologist]

mac osx is great but windows xp isnt that bad... my pc has never crashed and i dont get really any sort of spyware/virus, and its not ...
heres how i see it
most of america are stupid when it comes to computers.
...

Yeah, that's really it.

The PC I sometimes use at work has been rock solid. We've got a good IT department, and my co-workers are usually pretty sharp. Nobody opens mysterious attachments or downloads "Free Fun Smileys!" or other crap. Nobody uses IE, and the firewall is always on.

Most people, though, don't do this. They just don't understand what a dangerous place the internet is. And, really, why should they? You shouldn't have to be paranoid about your own PC. For those people, and anyone who is just tired of it all, a Mac is a good option.

 

[dirtydog]

True, I have to agree with that. Macs are better for novice or unwary users who happily click on picture.jpg.vbs or freesmileys.exe and so on..

On my home PC I have Outlook Express set not to download any images in e-mails, and to block all attachments; I never open any attachments whoever they're from. I also use Firefox as my browser, although I understand IE6 is much more secure now after SP2.

 

[VictoryRose]

Its been a while since I've met any really annoying anti-Mac people. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I see lots of Macs around here. So, I offer you my

Suggestions for avoiding nasty PC users:

- Move to a major metropolitan area (With an Apple Store...NYC or San Francisco, especially.)
- Join a Mac User Group
- Hang out on Mac bulletin board sites (Hey...!)
- Get a job in a creative field (Publishing/Graphics, Hollywood...)

my major in college right now is web design / graphic design stuff, and the people are so ****ing ignorant! we have A single mac in the back of the room that i darted towards everyday in hopes of getting it before anyone else did, come to find out, everyone there didn't want to use it... "why do you want to use the mac?"...what can you say to that honestly, a blank stare is all i could conjure up.

 

[jessica]

I think the people who say that windows is completely unstable are the people who haven't yet built and maintained their own PCs. I've built my computers and they run rather smoothly. The reason I want a Mac is because I feel I can get more insides with similar battery life to that of a centrino notebook. Plus, I swear I love the design and that is a huge selling point for me. If the insides sucked hard though, I would not buy a powerbook.

Because I have not used a mac in a few years and when I did use it I wasn't able to abuse it like I abuse windows, I can't say one way or another if the system is going to perfom how everyone says that it will.

I think those who bash macs or bash pcs are simply narrow minded. It's like trying to debate film vs digital. At the end of the day all you've done was wasted your time.

 

[witeshark]

An OS that has it's root or core exposed as shown here in Norton needing daily updates to remove or block such is simply not a good internet OS. Pretty, and a great gamer. But not online. Let's consider that in Apple mail we don't need to block attachments and images ever! That is all

 

[Mr Bobbins]

I like macs because they look great as well but also because of the system, its so much more graphically orientated and I feel alot easy and pleasant to use than I've ever found windows to be (including XP) Lets face it, mac users love macs and their is alot to hate about windows. Everything is cheaper and programs are always for windows but sometimes not on the mac and thats just annoying and then their is Bill Gates, i rest my case.

 

[Amen-Moses]

I think the people who say that windows is completely unstable are the people who haven't yet built and maintained their own PCs.

I build and maintain all my own PCs and the only one that is anywhere near "stable" is the XP-Pro one that I have well hidden behind a Linux firewall, have removed IE from and Outlook and use almost exclusively for gaming.

Amen-Moses

 

[torchy]

I really don't think this is about bashing other OS's, it's about supporting a Mac user who has been upset by Mac bashing Windows users. "Smile girl, you have got the best one "

I use both, I've nothing against XP as an OS but I dislike MS's business practices intensely.
The last thing I downloaded on the XP, besides updating the darn virus checker, were the manufacturers drivers for a new video card. I had to fight XP to install them as they weren't licensed by MS. What are MS going to stop next?.... Anything they don't get money for I suppose..... In that case goodbye most third party software, FreeWare & Shareware.

I use my Mac 99% of the time because it just works, I prefer it and the OS doesn't treat me like an idiot.

 

[Murlyn]

This is a hard one, since there are so many good things about each OS. I used windows for a long time because Macs just couldn't do what I needed to do, but man I liked the OS it was just so much easier to look at.. then it got to the point before 95 that I was able to start using Macs, then Win 95 came out and I had to use both, because certain software was not available on the Mac yet.. and it just didn't have the number crunching abilities that I needed.. so I was stuck using two computers.. then 98 came out and wow this is pretty nice.. Im really liking the way MS was going with this.. then I started having real problems with 98, but I still had to use both OS's. 2000 came out and oh man.. it was way better! I really liked it.. it was more stable then Mac, but yet, some of my design programs were still better on the Mac.. so I continued to use both, even though I really liked 2000. That's the way it was for quite a long time.. then OS X came out.. it was unstable, it looked awesome, but just wasnt up to snuff.. finally Jaguar came out and oh man! I could finally do everything on one computer and it happened to be a Mac and it was so so stable! I got rid of the PC. I've been using Mac's since.. XP looked pretty nice, I could see where MS had taken a lot of the Mac's interface ideas, but it was legal for them to do at the time due to the contract they had with Apple.. so that's the way it goes. XP was pretty stable, was quite nice, but OS X was still far superior in my opinion. Now my Dad got a computer with XP.. he has nothing, but troubles, he has viruses, he has spyware, he is scared to open his email, he is scared to surf the net, he is scared to do anything with that computer.. offline or online now, he's seriously looking at a Mac now. My grandmother got an eMac, she loves it! She surfs the net, she downloads emails, she uses the computer.. because she's not scared of it.. scared of what might happen if she uses it. I have a friend who is not a beginner, who has used PC's for years, and he has nothing but troubles with it.. he was using linux more and more and now is seriously looking at buying a Mac, because he is just plain sick of it! He has to keep up with everything on his side, while Im just working away on my Mac. These are just a couple of my acquaintances.. these stories abound out there..

These forums are full of switchers.. and like it was mentioned before.. you seldom see people going from the Mac to the PC.. there is a reason...

But there is no doubt that you have to make the choice yourself, some people after using PC's and Mac's for extended periods of time, due end up liking the PC better.. it seems to be rare from my experience, but it does happen.. that's just a bit more evidence of all of us being different and some of us liking chocolate, while other's do not.. Bashing is just ignorance, it should never happen.. but it does and it goes both ways.. if you don't encourage it and actually discourage like I've heard many people do in this thread, then that's awesome and you are part of the solution and not the problem. But there is a difference between bashing and opinion.. the above that I wrote is opinion and I wrote real life "testimonials" I let that do the speaking for me

 

[Amen-Moses]

This is a hard one, since there are so many good things about each OS. I used windows for a long time because Macs just couldn't do what I needed to do, but man I liked the OS it was just so much easier to look at.. then it got to the point before 95 that I was able to start using Macs, then Win 95 came out and I had to use both, because certain software was not available on the Mac yet.. and it just didn't have the number crunching abilities that I needed.. so I was stuck using two computers.. then 98 came out and wow this is pretty nice.. Im really liking the way MS was going with this.. then I started having real problems with 98, but I still had to use both OS's. 2000 came out and oh man.. it was way better! I really liked it.

I was lucky in that I used RiscOS right up until 98SE came out so I never had to struggle with either Mac OS<X or windoze <98 (except at work but we used Alphas so it was pretty painless).

98SE was my first real windoze experience and boy was it painful, RiscOS had always been so easy to use, never crashed, no viruses to worry about and just .. well .. great. But Acorn went the way of all superior niches, it died big time just like Betamax and VideoCD so I had to bite the bullet and go PC (I still have two Acorn machines which work fine but development stopped at around the Jpeg era so they are now just museum pieces). I battled on through WinNT4 and 2000 but when I witnessed OS X 10.2 running on an iMac I was blown away, the ease of RiscOS with the power of PPC was just too much to miss so I bought my first ever Apple machine, shortly after I bought my daughter one of the first 1Ghx G4 eMacs (still going strong and the envy of all her pals) and myself a twin G5 Powermac.

Now I am awaiting a Mini for my car so you could say I'm smitten but I still buy PC hardare to keep abreast of the lower end of the market (I have 3+ PCs ranging from EPIA in-car systems to a XP2500 AMD) and have all of Microshafts OSes dating back to about 1985 (I used to run them under emulation on the Acorn machines, sometimes faster than the real thing!).

btw, If you are wondering what happened to those wonderful Acorn machines look no further than your mobile phone, PDA or (if you have one) Pentium 4, 5 or Xscale PC. The ARM core that Acorn developed is currently the most prolific CPU (or CPU core) on the planet.

Ahh, the joy of being cutting edge.

Amen-Moses

 

[VictoryRose]

This is a hard one, since there are so many good things about each OS. I used windows for a long time because Macs just couldn't do what I needed to do, but man I liked the OS it was just so much easier to look at.. then it got to the point before 95 that I was able to start using Macs, then Win 95 came out and I had to use both, because certain software was not available on the Mac yet.. and it just didn't have the number crunching abilities that I needed.. so I was stuck using two computers.. then 98 came out and wow this is pretty nice.. Im really liking the way MS was going with this.. then I started having real problems with 98, but I still had to use both OS's. 2000 came out and oh man.. it was way better! I really liked it.. it was more stable then Mac, but yet, some of my design programs were still better on the Mac.. so I continued to use both, even though I really liked 2000. That's the way it was for quite a long time.. then OS X came out.. it was unstable, it looked awesome, but just wasnt up to snuff.. finally Jaguar came out and oh man! I could finally do everything on one computer and it happened to be a Mac and it was so so stable! I got rid of the PC. I've been using Mac's since.. XP looked pretty nice, I could see where MS had taken a lot of the Mac's interface ideas, but it was legal for them to do at the time due to the contract they had with Apple.. so that's the way it goes. XP was pretty stable, was quite nice, but OS X was still far superior in my opinion. Now my Dad got a computer with XP.. he has nothing, but troubles, he has viruses, he has spyware, he is scared to open his email, he is scared to surf the net, he is scared to do anything with that computer.. offline or online now, he's seriously looking at a Mac now. My grandmother got an eMac, she loves it! She surfs the net, she downloads emails, she uses the computer.. because she's not scared of it.. scared of what might happen if she uses it. I have a friend who is not a beginner, who has used PC's for years, and he has nothing but troubles with it.. he was using linux more and more and now is seriously looking at buying a Mac, because he is just plain sick of it! He has to keep up with everything on his side, while Im just working away on my Mac. These are just a couple of my acquaintances.. these stories abound out there..

These forums are full of switchers.. and like it was mentioned before.. you seldom see people going from the Mac to the PC.. there is a reason...

But there is no doubt that you have to make the choice yourself, some people after using PC's and Mac's for extended periods of time, due end up liking the PC better.. it seems to be rare from my experience, but it does happen.. that's just a bit more evidence of all of us being different and some of us liking chocolate, while other's do not.. Bashing is just ignorance, it should never happen.. but it does and it goes both ways.. if you don't encourage it and actually discourage like I've heard many people do in this thread, then that's awesome and you are part of the solution and not the problem. But there is a difference between bashing and opinion.. the above that I wrote is opinion and I wrote real life "testimonials" I let that do the speaking for me

you've unleashed the post to end all posts in this thread, i totally agree with you on this.

 

[dirtydog]

I use both, I've nothing against XP as an OS but I dislike MS's business practices intensely.
The last thing I downloaded on the XP, besides updating the darn virus checker, were the manufacturers drivers for a new video card. I had to fight XP to install them as they weren't licensed by MS. What are MS going to stop next?....

What are you talking about?

MS doesn't stop you installing the drivers because they haven't licensed them.

If you try and install UNSIGNED device drivers, Windows by default will ask if you're sure you want to install them, rather than drivers which have passed Microsoft's WHQL labs test for stability and compatibility. If you click yes, it will install them anyway. Or, you can turn off the warning message very easily. You can choose three options about signed drivers: warn (default), block (never install them) or allow (always allow, without any prompting). It is nothing to do with licensing or money.

Look..

 

[dirtydog]

Another thought, for those who bash 'M$' and Bill Gates.. Apple and Steve Jobs aren't so much better when it comes to business practice ya know.

At least MS release Windows upgrade versions so those with previous versions can upgrade cheaper. Plus you can buy OEM as well as retail versions of Windows.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Panther users wanting to upgrade to Tiger will not be able to go out and buy 'Tiger upgrade edition, for Panther users'.. they'll have to pay the full price like anyone else. (unless Tiger comes out very shortly after they buy Panther or a new Mac with Panther, then they can upgrade for $20, I know that.)

Also don't forget how expensive Apple hardware is compared to the competition.. of course there isn't any competition in the Mac hardware business; Apple is a monopoly, only they can make and sell Macs with OS X, so they can and do charge the earth for their machines containing outdated graphics cards and small amounts of ram.

 

[dirtydog]

Sometimes I will email my linux and winders friends some system requirements of random software to point out the ease that is the Macintosh.

Don't get me wrong, I like linux, but it's fun to point this out:

For example:
___________________________________________________________

Linux
These are currently under review and should be used as a general
guideline.
Please note that Linux distributors may provide packages for your
distribution which have different requirements.

Linux kernel - 2.2.14 with the following libraries or packages
minimums:
o glibc 2.2.4
o gtk+ - 1.2.0 (1.2.5 or greater preferred)
o XFree86-3.3.6
o fontconfig (also known as xft)
o gtk+2.0
____________________________________________________________

Windows
PC with 300 megahertz or higher processor clock speed recommended; 233 MHz minimum required (single or dual processor system);* Intel Pentium/Celeron family, or AMD K6/Athlon/Duron family, or compatible processor recommended

128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum supported; may limit performance and some features)

1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available hard disk space*

Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher-resolution video adapter and monitor

CD-ROM or DVD drive

Keyboard and Microsoft Mouse or compatible pointing device
___________________________________________________________

Mac

Mac OS X 10.2.x and later

So Mac games don't have minimum memory, hard drive space or graphics cards requirements? Are you sure about that?

http://www.apple.com/games/articles/2004/03/unreal2004/index2.html#reqs

Unreal Tournament 2004..

System Requirements

* Mac OS X version 10.2.8
* 933MHz PowerPC G4 processor or better
* 256MB of RAM (1GB recommended)
* 32MB AGP video card
* 6GB of hard disk space
* DVD drive
* Internet or LAN connection required for online play

Office 2004..

System requirements

To use the Office 2004 for Mac Test Drive, your computer must meet the following minimum requirements:

Processor: Mac OS X-compatible processor that is a model G3 or higher.
Operating system: Mac OS X version 10.2.8 or later.
Memory: 256 MB of RAM.
Hard disk: 450 MB to install the Office 2004 Test Drive.
Note The hard disk should be in Mac OS Extended (HFS+) format, the default format for Mac OS X. Although you can use drag-and-drop installation to install the Office 2004 Test Drive on a hard disk that is in another format, Microsoft does not currently support such a configuration. To determine the format of your hard disk, on the Apple menu, click About This Mac, and then click More Info.
Drives: CD-ROM drive or a connection to a local area network if you are installing the Office Test Drive over a network.
Display: Monitor that can display 1024 x 768 or higher resolution displaying thousands of colors.
Modem: 14.4 Kbps or faster.
Internet access: Internet access (for Microsoft Entourage and certain features in other Office programs). Internet access might require you to pay a separate fee to a service provider; local and long-distance telephone charges might apply.

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downlo...ffice2004.xml&secid=4&ssid=1&flgnosysreq=True

All software on all platforms has minimum requirements.......

 

[Amen-Moses]

At least MS release Windows upgrade versions so those with previous versions can upgrade cheaper. Plus you can buy OEM as well as retail versions of Windows.

The OEM price for Windross XP-Pro is the almost the same as the price of Panther (98 UKP compared to 99 UKP), OEM versions are only for sale "in the trade" although people break that rule they should really read the small print.

The upgrade versions are more expensive than the OEM price.

The full retail price is horrendously high.

Let's assume that I have a Mac 10.1 setup and a PC with Win2000 and I want to upgrade them both, for the Mac I'll buy Panther and for the PC the "cheap" upgrade to XP-Pro.

1) Mac = 99 UKP direct from the Apple store.
2) PC = 159 UKP from Novatech.

Do your own math!

Amen-Moses

 

[dirtydog]

Windows XP Home OEM is about £55 inc VAT.. (Home is enough for 99% of people)

XP Pro SP2 OEM is about £90 inc VAT.

It is perfectly legal for home users to buy those, so long as they buy some hardware at the same time (eg. a £1 mouse) but lots of places will sell it without needing to even do that.

Anyway yes you're right Windows retail is **** expensive, I don't disagree.

 

[Amen-Moses]

XP Pro SP2 OEM is about £90 inc VAT.

98, I put it in my post. But as I said read the small print carefully. You effectively have no rights at all, and if you check the small print on the upgrades you'll find that they are only guaranteed to upgrade a full copy not an OEM one. (I've only fallen foul of this once before when trying to upgrade a NT4 OEM to WinXP, luckily I had a 98 full version sat in a draw gathering dust so I used that instead)

Amen-Moses

 

[Avid6eek]

OS X Panther - $111.95
Windows Home - $92.95

Is $20 something really worth arguing? Personally, $20 won't put me, or anyone else in here in the poor house, so price isn't really of concern. To legitimently buy an OEM peice of Microsoft software, you have to buy it with a piece of hardware. It could be a $3 computer fan if need be. So when comparing the prices of MS software, you would compare the OEM prices to that of the Mac software.

My current Mac is my first Mac ever. When it comes to Mac hardware, I do not find it to be overpriced. I just bought my system for around $3k after student discounts. The build quality of the PowerMac is far better than I've ever scene in a PC. My previous PC was an Athlon 64 4000, gig of RAM, and 2 x 6800 GT's in SLI. This system did cost less, and obviously performed better than my new Mac. The main reason I switched, was because I wanted to learn something new. So far OS X has been great, but I've noticed just as many problems with it as I've noticed with any of my PCs running Windows. Both OS'es have bugs, and minor stability problems. Overtime they are improving, and that's all that matters.

If you are running a Windows system, and it is full of viruses and spyware...that's your own fault. You need to quit clicking and downloading everything on the net. I have no problems running Windows 24/7 with no antivirus or firewalls, with a 24/7 internet connection. Stupid users are the problem, not Microsoft. If someone needs a more "stupid proof" system, then they should definetly be using a Mac.

Mac vs PC arguements are like arguing that English is a better language than Spanish. They both server their purpose, and get the job done just as well as one enother. Typically, whichever brand gets a head start, will get the majority. Microsoft did that. You can't blame a business for being good at what they do. If Apple wants to regain the market, they have to position themselves to be better than the Wintel combo. As far as I'm concerned, they are both equal, so you won't be seeing any drastic market share changes.