Windows users, im crying

[Murlyn]

Jan 31: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1757786,00.asp?kc=ewnws020105dtx1k0000599

 

[Avid6eek]

If you try hard enough, you can get around anything...doesn't matter what type of system it is. These flaws are noted more on MS software, because everyone uses it. Pointing them out doesn't really advance your arguement for that very reason. Market share is killing them, but it is making them rich as well

 

[falltime]

What I do have a problem with is know-nothing idiots who think the sun shines out of Bill Gates rear end.

I never thought it did. I would venture to guess that there are honestly very few people that actually think it does.
What makes your statement so ironic is that you are posting that on a Mac forum. A forum often times used by its subscribers to celebrate the fact that they are using a Mac - a machine built by Apple - a company fronted by Steve Jobs - a notorious pathological liar, that is commonly known to be misleading, ferociously jealous, and a terrible sport when it comes to business. Apple keynotes are jokingly called "Stevenotes" by serious IT professionals and hobbyists, because the validity of the topics, news and subjects uttered in his Keynotes generally correspond with his values.
Ardent PC enthusiasts feel no need to put Mr. Gates up on a pedestal, in fact Gates even finds it hard to get respect in the that community as well. So the obvious irony is of course your transparent hypocrisy.

While I do not have a problem with Macs (hey I own one) and I think they are great for video editing. I do find it funny when people antagonize Bill Gates, then glorify Steve Jobs.

But anyone who seriously thinks that Intel or AMD are in the same league as IBM when it comes to hardware are seriously deluded, they are probably smoking the same stuff as those who think Microsoft are capable of producing quality software. Here is a hint, no one anywhere would even consider basing a safety critical system around anything produced by Microsoft, if they did they would be laughed out of the industry!

Is that a joke? Where did you get the idea that Intel and AMD only provides mediocre solutions for the general consumer - these companies have been at the top of the semiconductor industry to decades operating on the entire scope of the computing inudstry. If you knew IBM at all, you would know they have no interest in competing with Intel or AMD. It isn't so much their business, and being one of the most prominently conservative companies of their time, they have no reason to make it their business. You are aware that IBM uses Intel & AMD processors in most of their eServers, and also provide a very successful line of Windows Based eServers.


Laughed out of what industry? Certainly not any industry these guys are involved in:
Fortune 1000 Corporation Web Server Survey

I think Apple is included in the Other category….

The two largest eCommerce sites on the Web - eBay and Paypal both use IIS.

Clearly you need to take a look at where your getting your information.

 

[Thud]

Sometimes I will email my linux and winders friends some system requirements of random software to point out the ease that is the Macintosh.

Heh... check out the system requirements for Digidesign Pro Tools.

http://www.digidesign.com/


Supported CPU Models, Speeds & Requirements

* Power Mac G5 (each one of these items listed links to a separate page with detailed descriptions of the specific models that are supported)
* Power Mac G4
* PowerBook G4
* iMac G5
* iMac G4
* iBook G4

Not Tested:

* eMac
* iBook G3

Scheduled for Testing:

* Mac mini

Digidesign will be testing the recently announced Mac mini with Digi 002, Digi 002 Rack, and Mbox with Pro Tools LE 6.7. Due to limited availability and other testing already in progress, testing of the Mac mini is scheduled to begin in February. We do not yet have an estimated date for qualification.

The following computers are unsupported for use with Digi 002 with Mac OS X:

* G4 Cube
* Power Mac G4 (PCI Graphics)
* Power Mac G3 Blue & White and older
* iMac (G3 models)
* PowerBook G3 ("Pismo") and older
* iBook ("Clamshell")

Dual Processor Support

Pro Tools 6 for Mac OS X is fully compatible with Apple dual processor models. There is no need to install any additional software. Dual processor users will experience increased performance over single processor CPUs.

System Software

* Pro Tools LE 6.7 is officially supported on Mac OS X 10.3.2, 10.3.4, 10.3.5, and 10.3.7 (Panther)
* Mac OS X 10.3.3 and 10.3.6 have not been fully tested with Pro Tools and are not recommended
* Mac OS X Requirements, Installation, Updating & Authorizing Plug-ins

Total System RAM

* 384 MB minimum, 512 or higher recommended
* More RAM increases overall system and Pro Tools performance
* 512 MB RAM or higher suggested for sessions with high edit density, extensive use of plug-ins, or simultaneous use with MIDI sequencers
* DigiTranslator 2.0 will also require additional RAM
* OS X does not require minimum or preferred RAM settings for Pro Tools as RAM is dynamically allocated

Additional Computer Requirements

Monitor

* Color monitor required
* 14" minimum, 17" or or larger recommended
* Minimum resolution of 1024 x 768

QuickTime Required

* Apple QuickTime 6.5 or higher
* Included with Mac OS

 

[Amen-Moses]

Apple keynotes are jokingly called "Stevenotes" by serious IT professionals ...

I am a "serious IT professional" as is virtually everyone I work with, I've never heard this, in fact I've never heard anyone speak ill of him who doesn't work for Microsoft!

He is a showman, far better at it than Gates I might add, and loves to show off. so what, all us "serious IT professionals" like to do that.

IBM do indeed supply Intel based hardware if that is what you want, in fact we are using some as cheap X-servers in our test rigs but noone would use them in the operational system. Their hardware also uses chipsets from hundreds of other companies like Via, Motorola and TI but then again so does everyone elses so what? Comparing the hardware we use to the PC marketplace is like comparing Formula 1 with Whacky Races.

The market that Intel leads in is cheap mediocre desktop processors, they are making inroads into the embedded market (like they have several times before and failed) and have dipped their toes in the high end server market but basically where they excel is the cheap mediocre market.

Amen-Moses

 

[Amen-Moses]

Laughed out of what industry? Certainly not any industry these guys are involved in:
Fortune 1000 Corporation Web Server Survey

"These guys" being the top 1000 in the US, big deal the world is a **** of a lot bigger than just the US! We use thousands of MS servers, for email! Email is not and has never been a safety critical system and the reason we have so many of them is because of massive multiple redundancy (I'll let you work out why that might be required!). In comparison we have exactly 2 servers for military aircraft data, between them they have an uptime of over 20 years with only one at a time ever being taken down for maintenance during extremely low traffic flows, we have a corporation wide email outage about twice a month!

Where the really crucial jobs are done, i.e in real time aircraft control, we use exclusively IBM RS servers as we also do in data monitoring, in fact we have several 30 Terrabyte quad processor PPC servers with hot swappable RAID arrays just to monitor system debugging information. Suggesting with a straight face to anyone here that we could use MS servers to replace them would get you a quick visit to the white coated straight jacket brigade.

Amen-Moses

 

[Thud]

He is a showman, far better at it than Gates I might add, and loves to show off. so what, all us "serious IT professionals" like to do that.

I dunno, I don't think Jobs can top Steve Ballmer's "Developers! Developers!" monkey dance.

Comparing the hardware we use to the PC marketplace is like comparing Formula 1 with Whacky Races.

You really can't beat an Athlon64 running on an nForce4 chipset. nVidia makes **** good hardware. So good that apple uses it!

The market that Intel leads in is cheap mediocre desktop processors,

Expensive mediocre desktop processors. Even worse. Compared to the Athlon64's, even the high end P4's are pretty mediocre, not even mentioning the Celerons which are crap.

Intel hasn't even figured out how to get 64-bit processors into the mainstream (Itanium anyone?), something that AMD and IBM/Apple figured out over a year ago.

 

[Meyvn]

If you want to pay the shipping fees I have about 1 cubic metre of PC software you can have which is completely useless now.

For the record, I've been able to run any program I've tried made for Windows 95 or after on Windows XP. Heroes of Might and Magic II remains one of my favorite games of all time.

 

[falltime]

"These guys" being the top 1000 in the US, big deal the world is a **** of a lot bigger than just the US! We use thousands of MS servers, for email! Email is not and has never been a safety critical system and the reason we have so many of them is because of massive multiple redundancy (I'll let you work out why that might be required!). In comparison we have exactly 2 servers for military aircraft data, between them they have an uptime of over 20 years with only one at a time ever being taken down for maintenance during extremely low traffic flows, we have a corporation wide email outage about twice a month!

Where the really crucial jobs are done, i.e in real time aircraft control, we use exclusively IBM RS servers as we also do in data monitoring, in fact we have several 30 Terrabyte quad processor PPC servers with hot swappable RAID arrays just to monitor system debugging information. Suggesting with a straight face to anyone here that we could use MS servers to replace them would get you a quick visit to the white coated straight jacket brigade.

Amen-Moses

First of all, you claimed that anyone using a Windows-Based Server would be laughed out of the industry. Clearly you were and are wrong.

Secondly, considering the nature of the internet as well as the nature of business, you must understand that just because a corporation roots in the US, that does not mean it only operates domestically.

Thirdly, I would say a survey of the 1000 largest corporations says alot more than Amen-Moses, someone who claims to have coded the software that keeps us safe on Airplanes, yet has trouble with Spyware and Viruses, and did not know what a firewall was.

And last but not least,

The U.K. government joins the government of Russia and NATO as the first participants in the program, while Microsoft is talking to more than 20 other countries about their interest in the program.

- Cocerning governemnts involved in Microsofts Security Initiative (making the move to Windows-based Server solutions.) *Published by eWeek Enterprise News and Reviews

 

[Meyvn]

Intel hasn't even figured out how to get 64-bit processors into the mainstream (Itanium anyone?), something that AMD and IBM/Apple figured out over a year ago.

...Actually, the new P4s are 64 bit. It's just not popularly advertised because they're more interested in spouting Hyper-Threading because their customers like to say 'Hyper-Threading' because they think it makes them sound smart.

 

[Thud]

...Actually, the new P4s are 64 bit. It's just not popularly advertised because they're more interested in spouting Hyper-Threading because their customers like to say 'Hyper-Threading' because they think it makes them sound smart.

Hmmm, indeed they are. Intel is apparently being very discreet about it, I haven't seen anything about it on the other sites I go to (hardocp, etc).

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20040810014233.html

 

[Amen-Moses]

First of all, you claimed that anyone using a Windows-Based Server would be laughed out of the industry. Clearly you were and are wrong.

Nope, never said any such thing. Strawman much?

Thirdly, I would say a survey of the 1000 largest corporations says alot more than Amen-Moses, someone who claims to have coded the software that keeps us safe on Airplanes, yet has trouble with Spyware and Viruses, and did not know what a firewall was.

You have already been corrected on that one, I know perfectly well what they are and I don't have any problems with spyware and Virii, especially since the major causes of such have been eradicated from my systems (hint they are all MS apps!).

Amen-Moses

 

[Amen-Moses]

Hmmm, indeed they are. Intel is apparently being very discreet about it, I haven't seen anything about it on the other sites I go to (hardocp, etc).

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20040810014233.html

Intel have been 64 bit since 2001 but MS let them down, the promised 64 bit OS to make use of the chips has still not been released (hey only 3 years late and counting, not bad for MS).

They bought DEC to get their hands on the technology they needed to go to 64 bits btw.

Amen-Moses

btw, IBM/Motorola have been 64 bit at the top end for even longer as have many others at the top end of the market.

 

[falltime]

Hmmm, indeed they are. Intel is apparently being very discreet about it, I haven't seen anything about it on the other sites I go to (hardocp, etc).

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20040810014233.html

Many believe Intel is playing it smart. Their 32-bit processors are still managing to give AMD's 64-bit line stiff competition. primarily because very few applications are optimized for 64-bit addressing. Honestly I think waiting a while for more developers to start releasing apps with 64-bit support, especially content creation apps (the dynamic Intel has always seemed to excel in) is a good move. You need to let the industry catch up first.

Heres a quote from an Intel spokesperson:

"With just 5 percent of servers using 64-bit addressability, there is little need today [for 64 bits] on the desktop"

 

[falltime]

First of all, you claimed that anyone using a Windows-Based Server would be laughed out of the industry. Clearly you were and are wrong.

Nope, never said any such thing. Strawman much?

Thirdly, I would say a survey of the 1000 largest corporations says alot more than Amen-Moses, someone who claims to have coded the software that keeps us safe on Airplanes, yet has trouble with Spyware and Viruses, and did not know what a firewall was.

You have already been corrected on that one, I know perfectly well what they are and I don't have any problems with spyware and Virii, especially since the major causes of such have been eradicated from my systems (hint they are all MS apps!).

Amen-Moses

Hmmm...

Here is a hint, no one anywhere would even consider basing a safety critical system around anything produced by Microsoft, if they did they would be laughed out of the industry!

"Safety Critical System" - pretty broad use of words. In my mind that could and would include any corporation that deals with millions of credit card transactions a day.

If I had a list of the top 10 things I'd like to keep safe, it would of course include my finances.

I don't get PC viruses etc (probably because they are hidden behind a Linux firewall) but do still suffer from advertising nasties occasionally, especially when my daughter installs MSN or Outlook or uses IE instead of Firefox. These are just non-issues on my other systems.

Ok fine, you only have trouble with Spyware, because apparently your "Linux firewall" stops the viruses... :rollseyes:

Instead of this turning into the most ridiculous flame war of the ages, how about you just admit to the fact that Windows isn't garbage.... it isn't perfect, no one is saying that. But nothing is.

I am not here to bash Macs, and I am not here to bash Windows, I'm am simply here to correct what needs to be corrected by providing valid facts and stastics. For those considering the swtich, I only believe it fair that they have things put into the proper perspective. Lies and false rumors are not necessary.

 

[Avid6eek]

Intel's lack of 64bit desktop support is nothing more than a marketing move. Intel is in the business to sell as many chips as possible. As many of us know, Intel finally hit a frequency barrier at 3.8Ghz. The only way to sell chips now is by having a strong feature set. Intel does not want to release processors that can handle tomorrows software. They want you to buy new processors when tomorrows software becomes available. Rather nice coincidence that Intel will enable 64bit desktop processor during the same month that MS releases WinXP 64bit.

Intel's first attempt at dual core processors are also a joke. 130w of power for the upcoming Smithfield core is absolutely amazing. They are going to need water cooling just as Apple did with the 2.5Ghz G5. If it wasn't for the fact that Apple makes such great systems, their Dual G5 would be laughed at just as much as the Prescott is current made fun of. AMD is walking all over them in terms of processor technology. I'm sure AMD and IBM's collaboration is going to mean great things to come.

 

[falltime]

Intel's first attempt at dual core processors are also a joke. 130w of power for the upcoming Smithfield core is absolutely amazing. They are going to need water cooling just as Apple did with the 2.5Ghz G5. If it wasn't for the fact that Apple makes such great systems, their Dual G5 would be laughed at just as much as the Prescott is current made fun of. AMD is walking all over them in terms of processor technology. I'm sure AMD and IBM's collaboration is going to mean great things to come.

Actually the pressies aren't that bad, Intel almost doubled the pipeline so they could bring up the speed. That is why Pressies cannot compete with Northwoods clock for clock.

P4's have always beat up on AMD as far as Content Creation is concerned.

And when you bring a Prescott up, they beat up on the AMD in games as well. Pressies are the far superior choice over AMD's higher-end lines if you are into serious overclocking (like I am). They topped the 3dmark Hall of Fame, until SLI came out on the new nVidia Athlon chipsets. SLI should be coming out for Intel chipsets shortly, which will put the Pressie on top again.

So really:
Stock vs. Stock: AMD is best
Overlocked vs. Overclocked: Intel is best

I myself like to overclock, so I have a Pressie. One of my close friends prefers to keep things at stock, so I recommended he get an A64.

 

[Amen-Moses]

Hmmm...
"Safety Critical System" - pretty broad use of words. In my mind that could and would include any corporation that deals with millions of credit card transactions a day.

It's not my fault if you don't understand standard terminology.

I am not here to bash Macs, and I am not here to bash Windows, I'm am simply here to correct what needs to be corrected by providing valid facts and stastics.

Same here, unfortunately your "corrections" don't gell with mine so obviously we are going to clash. There seems to be a strange compunction by some people to continuously knock IBM, I could understand it back in 1984 because they deserved it then but why it continues I cannot fathom. They are responsible for almost all of the major breakthroughs that we all enjoy (apart from in the optical realm, they don't do optical) in our systems regardless of which flavour they are. They also file more patents yearly than the next ten innovators combined yet for some daft reason people seem driven to knock anything they produce whether it be cut down versions of their processors for Apple or 30 terrabyte Raid arrays for air traffic control systems.

Maybe it is just a case of bad memories but I have been really impressed by IBM over the last ten years with their willingness to lead the market in innovations yet share the technology and their willingness to absorb fundamental shifts like open source without batting the proverbial eyelid.

Heck, if you had told me 15 years ago that I would post that previous paragraph I would have called you something really nasty.

Amen-Moses

 

[Thud]

I myself like to overclock

And that's a very nice overclock you have. Is that typical of the prescotts? And you're still air-cooled?

 

[dirtydog]

I am not here to bash Windows

Are you sure? I must have been hallucinating in this thread then.

There seems to be a strange compunction by some people to continuously knock IBM, I could understand it back in 1984 because they deserved it then but why it continues I cannot fathom. They are responsible for almost all of the major breakthroughs that we all enjoy (apart from in the optical realm, they don't do optical) in our systems regardless of which flavour they are. They also file more patents yearly than the next ten innovators combined yet for some daft reason people seem driven to knock anything they produce whether it be cut down versions of their processors for Apple or 30 terrabyte Raid arrays for air traffic control systems.

Maybe it is just a case of bad memories but I have been really impressed by IBM over the last ten years with their willingness to lead the market in innovations yet share the technology and their willingness to absorb fundamental shifts like open source without batting the proverbial eyelid.

I presume you'd concede that IBM's desktop hard drives have a well-deserved reputation for unreliability hence the deskstar's nickname 'deathstar'.