Wow - I Just Found This

[Cr00zng]

I certainly will but I only upgraded last night. On activating it I got a dialogue saying a report would be generated based on usage within 24hrs so looking at it now there's not a lot of info, yet.
BUT one that really jumps out is app-measurement.com owned by Google. Seven quit varied apps from a medication reminder to TuneIn Radio media player have contacted this domain just today. All towards forming a profile of me.
Ever get the feeling were fighting a loosing battle?

They are not forming a profile of you, or anyone else for that matter. They are enhancing our profiles, since we already lost the battle...

To my recollection, you do use NextDNS, where you can block app-measurement.com, if you'd want to. These are some of the domains that I block by NextDNS:

 

[stefanmaine]

Randy B Singer: "Did you know that Apple has an app on your Mac that *records* every single e-mail that you've ever sent"

No, I did not know that. Perhaps I am misunderstanding it
Is it still happening? I mean every ever. Really?
I switched from Windows to Mac in 2011. That's twelve years of email messages.
And *records* where? Not to mention why? Or "for how long"? And "accessible to whom"?

 

[IWT]

Randy B Singer: "Did you know that Apple has an app on your Mac that *records* every single e-mail that you've ever sent"

No, I did not know that. Perhaps I am misunderstanding it
Is it still happening? I mean every ever. Really?
I switched from Windows to Mac in 2011. That's twelve years of email messages.
And *records* where? Not to mention why? Or "for how long"? And "accessible to whom"?

I think that what Randy was saying - was to try and convince the original OP that all is well - in a way that exaggerated a non-existent future where "Apple" sees everything you are doing-----------

Don't fret @stefanmaine. You are safe. Apple is probably more secure than any other company.

Ian

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Randy B Singer: "Did you know that Apple has an app on your Mac that *records* every single e-mail that you've ever sent"

No, I did not know that. Perhaps I am misunderstanding it
Is it still happening? I mean every ever. Really?
I switched from Windows to Mac in 2011. That's twelve years of email messages.
And *records* where? Not to mention why? Or "for how long"? And "accessible to whom"?

It's called "Mail". And it does all that as a matter of course. Of course, every e-mail client does all those things. The point being, you can choose to be paranoid about everything and anything, or you can just chill.

 

[Jimmysb]

It's called "Mail". And it does all that as a matter of course. Of course, every e-mail client does all those things. The point being, you can choose to be paranoid about everything and anything, or you can just chill.

Obviously it would depend on your mail protocol, IMAP, POP3 or one of the mail provides own protocols. I was very much a POP3 user for many years, downloading and keeping my emails on my "box", but with multiple devices, I think IMAP is the better way to go, with the mail stored on the server (till you wish to remove it).

 

[Randy B. Singer]

We just had a fun discussion about the IMAP protocol on another Macintosh discussion list. By far, the most popular type of protocol used currently is IMAP. IMAP became popular with the prevalence of mobile computing and multiple portable devices that can access e-mail. Google's free Gmail uses IMAP, along with plenty of storage space to hold decades worth of mail.

Most users, coming into the discussion, didn't really understand the "features" of IMAP. IMAP allows you to read your mail on all of your devices, because all of your devices are accessing your mail provider's server.

After you have read your mail on your device, and you decide to delete it from your device, it isn't also deleted from your mail provider's server. In fact, there is no provision in most e-mail clients to delete mail that isn't local (i.e. on the server). This is considered a "feature" of IMAP. Your e-mail can't be accidentally deleted. It's always safe and automatically archived. (This is the point where everyone runs to look at the Preferences in Mail.app. I'll save you some time. Whatever you find there with regard to deleting e-mail doesn't apply to your IMAP server. It only applies to "local" mail. That is, mail that resides on your Mac. Or to a POP account.)

Unless you access your mail provider's mail server (usually only possible via a Web interface) and manually delete read mail, it will be there indefinitely. (Some mail providers may have a policy of deleting your mail after a set period of time unless you pay for a premium account. And with some providers you may be able to have your account set up to do so.)

See:

https://support.reclaimhosting.com/...nderstanding-Email-Retrieval-POP-vs-IMAP#imap

This does bring up questions of security. Can you trust your e-mail service provider never to look at your e-mails? (Google's entire business model is to give you free services and then to mine your private data and sell it. Do you think that Gmail would be free if they weren't doing that?) If your e-mail service provider is subpoenaed, will they simply just hand over all of your e-mails without a second thought? If you are running a company, would it be a better (i.e. safer and more secure) idea to run your own private mail server?

 

[Jimmysb]

We just had a fun discussion about the IMAP protocol on another Macintosh discussion list. By far, the most popular type of protocol used currently is IMAP. IMAP became popular with the prevalence of mobile computing and multiple portable devices that can access e-mail. Google's free Gmail uses IMAP, along with plenty of storage space to hold decades worth of mail.

Most users, coming into the discussion, didn't really understand the "features" of IMAP. IMAP allows you to read your mail on all of your devices, because all of your devices are accessing your mail provider's server.

After you have read your mail on your device, and you decide to delete it from your device, it isn't also deleted from your mail provider's server. In fact, there is no provision in most e-mail clients to delete mail that isn't local (i.e. on the server). This is considered a "feature" of IMAP. Your e-mail can't be accidentally deleted. It's always safe and automatically archived. (This is the point where everyone runs to look at the Preferences in Mail.app. I'll save you some time. Whatever you find there with regard to deleting e-mail doesn't apply to your IMAP server. It only applies to "local" mail. That is, mail that resides on your Mac. Or to a POP account.)

Unless you access your mail provider's mail server (usually only possible via a Web interface) and manually delete read mail, it will be there indefinitely. (Some mail providers may have a policy of deleting your mail after a set period of time unless you pay for a premium account. And with some providers you may be able to have your account set up to do so.)

See:

https://support.reclaimhosting.com/...nderstanding-Email-Retrieval-POP-vs-IMAP#imap

This does bring up questions of security. Can you trust your e-mail service provider never to look at your e-mails? (Google's entire business model is to give you free services and then to mine your private data and sell it. Do you think that Gmail would be free if they weren't doing that?) If your e-mail service provider is subpoenaed, will they simply just hand over all of your e-mails without a second thought? If you are running a company, would it be a better (i.e. safer and more secure) idea to run your own private mail server?

Sorry, but when I delete am email from ANY of my devices it is deleted on all of them. All my folders (mail boxes) are mirrored across my devices and server, this is taken from my server FAQ, check the red paragraph:

What is the difference between IMAP and POP?​

Although POP (Post Office Protocol) and IMAP (Internet Message Access Protocol) are both used to connect your mailbox server to mobile devices, tablets and email clients, such as Microsoft Outlook, Apple Mail and Mozilla Thunderbird, there are huge differences between them.

POP was designed as a way of accessing a remote email server as it will download your emails from your provider’s mail server as you’re reading them. This means that you can only view your messages from one email client within that one device. Furthermore, you won’t be able to access any previously downloaded emails from any other device, with any other email client or through webmail.

IMAP, however, allows you to view your emails from any client on any device. It will also sync your emails so that you will always see the same messages. For example, if you delete an email in one client and then check your inbox on a different client and/or device, it will still be deleted.

As such, we recommend that you always use IMAP where possible as it offers a faster, safer and more convenient way of receiving emails.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Sorry, but when I delete am email from ANY of my devices it is deleted on all of them.

...

IMAP, however, allows you to view your emails from any client on any device. It will also sync your emails so that you will always see the same messages. For example, if you delete an email in one client and then check your inbox on a different client and/or device, it will still be deleted.

Correct, when you delete an e-mail on one device, it appears to have been deleted on all of your devices.

However, it isn't deleted from your mail host's server. It is moved to a Deleted directory and archived. Note that your mail host says nothing about it being deleted from THE SERVER.

I don't know why folks fight this. I gave you a citation for how IMAP works. This is one of IMAP's features; the safety and archiving of your e-mail.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Message_Access_Protocol

"Email clients using IMAP generally leave messages on the server until the user explicitly deletes them. This and other characteristics of IMAP operation allow multiple clients to manage the same mailbox."

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Internet Message Access Protocol - Wikipedia

"Email clients using IMAP generally leave messages on the server until the user explicitly deletes them. This and other characteristics of IMAP operation allow multiple clients to manage the same mailbox."

Yes. And when you explicitly delete them on one device, they then get deleted from the server. This is what I see happening (I did experiment using the web interface also). That's exactly what that quote suggests. Unless you are saying that Google, et al, have a hidden place for deleted messages that we are supposed to try and hunt down. Which isn't what that quote suggests. And I can't find any such hidden thing.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Yes. And when you explicitly delete them on one device, they then get deleted from the server.

That isn't what both citations that I gave said. But if it's what you want to believe, I guess that I can't tell you differently.

YOU may have an IMAP server that is set up that way, but that isn't the IMAP standard.

I've meticulously deleted all of my Gmail messages from my e-mail clients after reading them, but if I go into Gmail via the Web interface, they are all still there going back many years. The same with my Outlook account.

https://whatismyipaddress.com/imap

"Disadvantages of IMAP...
You need more storage space on your server.
Next, you will need more server space than with a POP protocol. That’s because the server stores everything. If you only have access to a small amount of server space, you could find yourself needing to delete emails from the server to make room for more."

I don't know how many citations you need ...

 

[Lifeisabeach]

That isn't what both citations that I gave said. But if it's what you want to believe, I guess that I can't tell you differently.

YOU may have an IMAP server that is set up that way, but that isn't the IMAP standard.

I use GMail and iCloud. I've done nothing special to set them up.

I've meticulously deleted all of my Gmail messages from my e-mail clients after reading them, but if I go into Gmail via the Web interface, they are all still there going back many years. The same with my Outlook account.

Look, I don't know how to square your experience against mine and most others. When I delete a GMail message on my Mac and then check it on the GMail web interface, it's in the trash. When I empty the trash on my Mac, the web interface shows the trash is empty. There isn't anywhere else for me to look.

https://whatismyipaddress.com/imap

"Disadvantages of IMAP...
You need more storage space on your server.
Next, you will need more server space than with a POP protocol. That’s because the server stores everything. If you only have access to a small amount of server space, you could find yourself needing to delete emails from the server to make room for more."

I don't know how many citations you need ...

I don't see how that citation proves they keep everything indefinitely, even after you've deleted it. Look... in comparison, POP deletes email off the server once you've downloaded it. So obviously it requires less space. That's also why email can't be synced that way. IMAP keeps email on the server for the sake of syncing to other devices, so obviously it requires more space. Until you delete it!!! Literally what your quotes say! Deleting on your device tells the server to delete them also. This is precisely what I see. On GMail. On iCloud. And I've done nothing special here with my account settings.

And I'm going to backtrack a little... I think you CAN tell POP to not delete email after being downloaded to another device so that you can download on multiple devices, but THAT is more like the behavior you are talking about. It doesn't truly "sync". Deleting on your device doesn't tell the server to delete the email there also because normally it's not there still... no syncing.

EDIT: I was correct... you can tell a POP server to not delete email. I found a bunch of older discussions about this. Here's one... someone was trying to troubleshoot a problem and mentions he uses POP3 and has the "do not delete" box ticked. So again... what you are describing is more like POP behavior if one ticked that box. And really, maybe IMAP can do the same. If so, that suggests to me you did this. It's certainly not the default. Also, do you have mandatory retention policies that you may have enabled as a consequence of your career? That could explain your experience.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

I don't see how that citation proves they keep everything indefinitely, even after you've deleted it. Look... in comparison, POP deletes email off the server once you've downloaded it. So obviously it requires less space.

That's a ludicrously tortured way of looking at the citation that I gave just to get it to adhere to your view. Your server doesn't fill up and require that you purchase more space because you haven't deleted your e-mail for the day (or even for multiple days).

I've given you three citations. Let's see your citations to the contrary.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

That's a ludicrously tortured way of looking at the citation that I gave just to get it to adhere to your view. Your server doesn't fill up and require that you purchase more space because you haven't deleted your e-mail for the day (or even for multiple days).

I've given you three citations. Let's see your citations to the contrary.

No. I’m not engaging you further on this or derailing this thread.

 

[ferrarr]

When I delete email in Apple Mail, they are usually deleted on the server. I use gmail, hotmail and iCloud with the same outcome.

Maybe there is a setting on each email server that affects this setting.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Some research shows that Gmail can actually be set up as a POP account. That being the case, sure, if you delete an e-mail message on any of your devices from your POP Gmail account, your e-mail client can can be set up to delete that message on the server too:

https://emailmate.com/blog/2018/12/imap-downloading-old-messages/

However, here now is a forth citation that says that IMAP messages remain on the server even if deleted locally on your device(s):

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/pop-vs-imap/

"The primary difference is that POP downloads emails from the server for permanent local storage, while IMAP leaves them on the server while caching (temporarily storing) emails locally. In this way, IMAP is effectively a form of cloud storage."

"As a result, IMAP has the following advantages:...

• Mail is automatically backed up, as long as the server is managed properly."

 

[Raz0rEdge]

Ok, looks like we've completely lost the plot of the thread here. So let's end it at that.