Why the hatred towards Mac users??

[xstep]

Very little in the way of on screen controls, but lots of keyboard shortcuts (F9, F10, F11 etc...) why? these are features people will want to use and why aren't they available using the dock or other means?

Can't all of those features be set up to be triggered by the hot corner method?

IMHO It's all about making things clean and minimalist at the expense of usability.

I personnaly think that for most people, your average non geek e-mail & browser user, the clean and minimalist setup is best. Fewer options means less confusion for them.

For you and many others it would be nice to have the extra power available via different methods. Many people like keyboard shortcuts because it makes using features much quicker than wasting time dragging a mouse around to target some selection value. Apple does have a keyboard shortcut list for the Finder available on their site and you can see it via the preferences app somehow too.

There are some third party tools available, but they havn't appealed to me yet.

Certain aspects are too basic, Finder isn't brilliant, there's no function to move up a directory when in the detail view (I don't like the left to right split thing). The detail view has a limit, you can't expand the filename completely. The lack of cut option is just stupid, at least give us a move option?

When in detail mode, perform a command click on the window title. A list will appear starting with your current location and listing each folder leading to the top level.

The cut option of Windows has always bothered me. But I do agree some quicker way to move files would be nice. I've been using the drag & drop method where when you drag a selection to a new folder and hold it there, the folder opens up and you can continue down the folder list until you find the location you really want the contents moved to.


The great thing about the internet is the availability of information. You may not find the exact answer you want, but alternatives can be very helpful.

 

[smurfy]

Good call, that makes the most sense to me Not only that, but 12 year olds are unable to have constructive conversations if they know they are on the short end of the stick.

im 12 years old and I switched to Mac, despite my no one in my family supporting my decision. Microsoft is really behind the times in pretty much every aspect - look at Internet Explorer's laaate implementation of tabs for a perfect example. Also, Mac has been natively supporting widescreen for years, and even Vista isn't perfect with it.

I love how Apple makes the hardware and the software. It means you won't get errors such as 'Windows could not detect a mouse, click OK to continue'. Apple's hardware is just plain awesome anyway, I mean, how many PCs have slot loading disc drives, easy memory installation, magnets on the side, a built in camera, and are entirely built into the monitor? Not many, I'll tell you that.

Photo Booth is a good example of something Microsoft will never understand - software that has no point other than random fun. Also, with the Photo Booth custom effects feature coming up in Leopard, I reckon we'll be seeing alot more of this fun little app.

Hehe, yeah, hard to believe I'm 12, huh...If you scrolled through my previous threads, you'd find more surprises...

 

[jonnyd]

Can't all of those features be set up to be triggered by the hot corner method?


I personnaly think that for most people, your average non geek e-mail & browser user, the clean and minimalist setup is best. Fewer options means less confusion for them.

For you and many others it would be nice to have the extra power available via different methods. Many people like keyboard shortcuts because it makes using features much quicker than wasting time dragging a mouse around to target some selection value. Apple does have a keyboard shortcut list for the Finder available on their site and you can see it via the preferences app somehow too.

There are some third party tools available, but they havn't appealed to me yet.


When in detail mode, perform a command click on the window title. A list will appear starting with your current location and listing each folder leading to the top level.

The cut option of Windows has always bothered me. But I do agree some quicker way to move files would be nice. I've been using the drag & drop method where when you drag a selection to a new folder and hold it there, the folder opens up and you can continue down the folder list until you find the location you really want the contents moved to.


The great thing about the internet is the availability of information. You may not find the exact answer you want, but alternatives can be very helpful.

It's just counter intuitive sometimes.

I'd be embarrassed to admit how long it took me to work out that when you're offered the choice of 'save as', and the location to save to, you have to click the 'save as' option to choose a different location. I just used to save it to the location it offered (as I couldn't see any way to change it), and then go and move it through finder.

Only, I wouldn't really be embarrased - it's just plain stupid. It took me about a year to work it out.

 

[xstep]

I think a lot of the "hatred" comes from IT types who need to justify their existence. Things are supposed to be complicated to some of these guys. They don't want users solving their own problems, because they might end up having to dust off their resume.

Coming from inside the IT environment, non PC support, that argument has never made any sense to me. Given how often PC guys repeatedly fix the same problem you would think they would be open to also supporting a platform like the Mac that tends to have fewer issues. If nothing else, it should reduce their personal stress level. A good thing.

I can only see one possible advantage of sticking with PC-only support. The job market is bigger than Mac support market so that when one needs to dust of that resume, there are many many more opportunities. If their company started supporting Macs and eventually went all Mac, then they would have a bigger problem finding a job later on. A serious problem where you livelyhood is concerned.

Most of the time when I've seen a company PC support guy not want to deal with Macs, the issue comes from the fact that they do not know enough to understand how a Mac can fit into their environment. They even admit they are ignorant of the facts they need. Since most of those people are not the decision makers and know that the decision makers have no driving force to try Macs, they tend not to go out and learn what they need to know. So it is, one more reason companies stay with Windows and most PC support people still know little to nothing of the Mac.

 

[dtravis7]

Save As is on Windows applications also. I use it most of the time instead of Save since I am always choosing where I want it to save.

 

[smurfy]

hahaha wasnt it so classic when Windows 95 brought up the BSOD at a demonstration with Bill Gates. BURNED!

 

[baggss]

It's just counter intuitive sometimes.

I'd be embarrassed to admit how long it took me to work out that when you're offered the choice of 'save as', and the location to save to, you have to click the 'save as' option to choose a different location. I just used to save it to the location it offered (as I couldn't see any way to change it), and then go and move it through finder.

Only, I wouldn't really be embarrased - it's just plain stupid. It took me about a year to work it out.

Counter intuitive is subjective at best. You were used to the way Windows does things, and that's fine. The hardest part I see for switchers is learning to forgetting how Windows does things and learning how the Mac does them. Different doesn't mean counter intuitive, different means different. Calling something stupid just because you are unable to figure it out or are unwilling to learn the way the system works is just silly.

 

[Miffle]

im 12 years old and I switched to Mac, despite my

..It means you won't get errors such as 'Windows could not detect a mouse, click OK to continue'. Apple's hardware is just plain awesome anyway, I mean, how many PCs have slot loading disc drives, easy memory installation, magnets on the side, a built in camera, and are entirely built into the monitor? Not many, I'll tell you that...

Hehe, yeah, hard to believe I'm 12, huh...If you scrolled through my previous threads, you'd find more surprises...

What you listed as positives is what puts me off buying a new mac

Slot loading disc drives in small little cases, with a tray in a tower I can get the disc out (What if the manual eject hole breaks or something of that nature)

A little flap to install memory is handy but on a tower case it isn't hard either

It also gives you a chance to inspect the inards of your computer, maybe give it a clean

Magnets - personal preference

Built in camera, again personal peference but I see this as a bit locking, I like the option to move up to a better model

Built into the monitor, not my personal preference, but then again - I do have a lot of space to spare

My problem with that is again, if I wanted to upgrade my monitor i'd face difficulties, sure I could span onto the new monitor or use it as primary but I wouldn't be having a matching pair

On this PC I have three 21inch CRTs, far from perfect but I can change them as time goes by

I have no real problem with the form factor for other people, it just isn't suited to me, once you have three monitors you'll never go back - but I said that about two monitors, and the move from 17inch to 19inch

Theres also problems about servicing your own computer

If I were to buy a mac to get serious work done it would have to be a Mac Pro.. Thats just me

The whole 12 year old thing, I don't find it hard to belive you're 12, you've pointed it out. Same if you were 12, 15, 30.

 

[dtravis7]

Miffle, I would say then either get a Mac Pro Desktop or stick with a PC, since it does what you want a PC to do.

 

[Miffle]

Yeah, i'm not looking to get rid of this thing, just get it a new friend to play with

Its a bit of a shame apple don't offer more options eh? Their whole brand icon thing would get so cluttered, though

I need to replace the poor old G3, i'll probably go for a mini with applecare (We'll have to wait and see for core2duo) I'm not in the mood for another 32bit though

 

[sockeye]

This is a debate that seems to repeat itself thru the ages,

In My generation it was Ford vs. Chevy, now its Honda vs Toyota.

Maybe someday there will be a os that kicks msft and mac in the behind when no ones looking!

I live in seattle which is next door to microsoft and I have friends that work there so i am sure I will get some flak for buying a mac, but i dont care. MSFT deserves to get its butt kicked once in awhile, get complacent like the US auto industry and let your product suffer(vista, ME) competition is good, dont get cocky thinking you are the best.

I use to have a perception about mac owners for no other reason than they were on the other side of the fence, now I am on that side and the grass is greener. (for now anyway!)

 

[UserofMacOSX]

I recieved my iMac on Friday and hastily set it up. Upon surfing the web, I was doing a search for Mac related sites to try and soak up as much information as I can.

In the midst of my search, I had ran across several sites that were down right crude towards Mac users. I can understand having a passion for something, but several of the lowlife PC owners cross the line.

-Seann

PC users get tired of hearing "Oh, well my Mac doesn't have that problem" or "My Apple is the best thing ever."

PEOPLE GET IT! In general, Apples are better. There are always a few bad apples in each bushel, and I happen to have one. You know the saying how you always remember your first experience? I will be sure to remember mine and you can bet the farm that I won't own another Mac.
People with PCs never seem to hear about this though, so they assume that all Mac users brag and nag about how great they are. Like I said before, THEY ARE TIRED OF IT, LET IT GO.

 

[dtravis7]

UserofMacOSX, that Sony Vaio with Vista in your Sig should do you well. Sell off that iBook and get the Vaio. I think you will be very happy with it.


I get very tired of my PC friends always saying my Macs reek, have no applications, crash 24 a day, (They never crash on me by the way) and then when their machines are full of Virus's and spyware (Their Fault mostly) they come crying to me to fix it. I am stupid for liking OSX but not stupid when they need my services! Interesting and my rant for the day.

 

[jonnyd]

Counter intuitive is subjective at best. You were used to the way Windows does things, and that's fine. The hardest part I see for switchers is learning to forgetting how Windows does things and learning how the Mac does them. Different doesn't mean counter intuitive, different means different. Calling something stupid just because you are unable to figure it out or are unwilling to learn the way the system works is just silly.

That'd make sense if there wasn't also a 'location' in the same dialog box.

Windows has just one, so it's more obvious.

edit - the dialog box says 'where'.

 

[macproowner2]

Heck in my opinion let the Window's users keep using their PC's the more PC users we have the less we have to worry about spyware, and viruses. Let those pc users deal with all the hassle of that sh*t.

 

[walkerj]

PC users get tired of hearing "Oh, well my Mac doesn't have that problem" or "My Apple is the best thing ever."

PEOPLE GET IT! In general, Apples are better. There are always a few bad apples in each bushel, and I happen to have one. You know the saying how you always remember your first experience? I will be sure to remember mine and you can bet the farm that I won't own another Mac.
People with PCs never seem to hear about this though, so they assume that all Mac users brag and nag about how great they are. Like I said before, THEY ARE TIRED OF IT, LET IT GO.

I try very hard not to "evangelize" when talking to my windows using co-workers.

Last night I was trying to get into the work VPN with my Dell PC, which is usually what I use when working remote. It logged into the VPN just fine and authenticated but for some reason Lotus Notes (our email client) refused to work properly. In such a way that it seemed that the IT people changed it so it couldn't see the server with the network settings that usually work.

Well, I have Parallels on my Macbook, just for this sort of thing, with all the Windows applications I would need if, say, my Dell were narfed (technical term for broken.) So I fired that up, logged into the VPN, and the Notes installed on that worked like it should I was able to get into my calendar to determine if there was a staff meeting today that I would need to prepare for. Just to make sure that something hadn't changed in the time it took for me to boot up my Parallels VM I tried again with the Dell. No dice.

Next day I was talking with a co-worker and, as usual started "well, I don't like to evangelize" and proceeded to recount my experience of my Windows machine failing where my Mac allowed me to get in and get some work done. I don't know why it worked and the Dell didn't at the time, and the problem fixed itself somehow but still that's an example that could be used to show how smug and pretentious Mac users can be. I try not to be like the stereotype, but when your choice of platform consistently proves it to be the better of the two (granted, I used Windows on a Mac to accomplish this) it's difficult not to be that way.

 

[Brown Study]

gilesjuk, excepting the one button mouse argument, in what other ways are Macs over simplistic?

Here are three from me.

1. The vertical scroll bar being fixed to the right side of a window. As a user I should be allowed to place it on the left side.

2. The menu bar on the top of the display.

3. The three color window buttons fixed to the left of the window.

Why should this matter to me. Well, the distance the user has to move the cursor when they are at the buttom of the vertical scroll bar is maximized when they wish to use the menu or one of those color buttons.

Here's a cure.

 

[Village Idiot]

I try very hard not to "evangelize" when talking to my windows using co-workers.

Last night I was trying to get into the work VPN with my Dell PC, which is usually what I use when working remote. It logged into the VPN just fine and authenticated but for some reason Lotus Notes (our email client) refused to work properly. In such a way that it seemed that the IT people changed it so it couldn't see the server with the network settings that usually work.

Well, I have Parallels on my Macbook, just for this sort of thing, with all the Windows applications I would need if, say, my Dell were narfed (technical term for broken.) So I fired that up, logged into the VPN, and the Notes installed on that worked like it should I was able to get into my calendar to determine if there was a staff meeting today that I would need to prepare for. Just to make sure that something hadn't changed in the time it took for me to boot up my Parallels VM I tried again with the Dell. No dice.

Next day I was talking with a co-worker and, as usual started "well, I don't like to evangelize" and proceeded to recount my experience of my Windows machine failing where my Mac allowed me to get in and get some work done. I don't know why it worked and the Dell didn't at the time, and the problem fixed itself somehow but still that's an example that could be used to show how smug and pretentious Mac users can be. I try not to be like the stereotype, but when your choice of platform consistently proves it to be the better of the two (granted, I used Windows on a Mac to accomplish this) it's difficult not to be that way.

This just sounds like different settings on the dell's os vs what you have in parallels. It's not some magical thing in the mac that makes it work.

Sorry, I'm an IT guy and everything works for a reason, usually a setting or something similar is the reason.

What's funny is if we had imacs in the office instead of PC's, I would get a lot more calls about broken computers rather than broken monitors. You wouldn't believe how many times I get called over and plug in a monitor that has a power cable that comes loose...and don't they feel bright when they ask what's wrong and I tell them it wasn't plugged in. That's the life of a "customer service" tech.

That's how I perceive a lot of mac users, most who like to quote Apple's great marketing slogans like "It just works" or "It's just better". Most of those people aren't very tech literate in the first place and they're happy to remain that way and don't know why their macs work or don't do anything besides your typical software usage. Most of these people will never do anything to a Mac that causes it not to work. Then again there's a lot of PC users out there that are like that. They just don't have any nifty slogans...I mean, if some one came up to me and said "DUDE!!! Get a Dell!!!", I'd probably hit them.

Plus it's easier to break XP if you don't know what you're doing. Vista is a little more dummy proof.

 

[baggss]

Here's a cure.

I've been using that for years....

 

[Willem]

Its a bit of a shame apple don't offer more options eh?

Most Mac users don't look at it this way. A lack of options is fine with me. The race to constantly upgrade to newer and better devices is a decidedly PC oriented mentality. Nothing wrong with it, if that's your thing, but when PC users start looking at Macs it's one of the first things they get irritated about.

"No choice of video cards!", and their heads explode.