To Clone or not to Clone?

[chscag]

There has been a great deal of discussion regarding the use of cloning software and whether or not it still works to create a bootable clone with the latest versions of macOS. The cloning software that is referred to are the two popular apps: Carbon Copy Cloner and SuperDuper.

I do not own a registered copy of SuperDuper although I have tested it, but rather will only refer to CCC which I do own the latest version. (6.0.5)

Below is a help request that I sent to CCC and their reply to me:

Hi Charles,

Greetings from Bombich Software! Rob from our Support team has looked at your request and responded. If you'd like to get in touch with us, you can reply to this email.

Rob C. (Bombich Software)
Dec 20, 2021, 9:39 AM EST

Hi Charles,

If you would like to make a bootable copy of your macOS 11 Big Sur (or newer OS) startup disk with CCC 6:

1. Choose your startup disk as the source
2. Select a destination
3. Click on the Destination selector again and choose "Legacy Bootable Backup Assistant"
4. Choose the option to create a bootable backup, then run the task

The procedure is documented here:

Creating legacy bootable backups of macOS Big Sur (and later OSes)

Looking at the logs, the task completed as expected and I would expect it to boot.
And I would like to draw your attention to this section in particular:

Things you should know before relying on an external macOS boot device

We welcome feedback on this functionality, but we cannot offer in-depth troubleshooting assistance for problems that Apple's replication utility encounters, nor can we offer any troubleshooting assistance for the bootability of the destination device beyond the suggestions offered in our External Boot Troubleshooting kbase article.

In general, we're planning to rely less and less on the bootability of the backup volume for recovery from hardware failure. You don't have to be able to boot your Mac from the CCC backup to restore data from it. You can restore individual files and folders using Finder or CCC while booted from your production volume, and you can also recover older versions of files from CCC snapshots. If you ever needed to restore everything from a non-bootable backup, you would install macOS via Recovery mode (e.g. onto a replacement disk), then migrate data from the CCC backup via Migration Assistant. CCC backups are compatible with Migration Assistant, and we support that configuration.

Best wishes,

Rob
Bombich Software, Inc.

Charles

Dec 18, 2021, 9:32 PM EST

Hi:

I have tried several times to make a bootable clone of my Monterey 12.1 macOS. I have selected “legacy backup” and allowed my external SSD (Samsung T5) to be completely erased.

The entire process finishes after some time. However, when trying to boot from the Samsung T5, the boot process hangs up about halfway through and then restarts to then boot from the Macintosh HD.

I should add that the bootable clone process was working with Catalina and Big Sur. (My version of CCC is 6.0.5 (7252)

I have tried using two different Samsung T5 SSDs which I know to be okay.

I guess I should ask…. Are bootable clones still possible when running Monterey?

My Mac is a 2017 27” 5K iMac.

Thanks.

This email is a service from Bombich Software. Delivered by Zendesk.

Quite frankly, I was disappointed with his reply to my request. Note that Mike stated "he expected it to boot". It did in fact seemed to boot but hung up about halfway through the process.

I might note that when I tested SuperDuper using the same external drives (Samsung T5s) that SuperDuper failed the same way that CCC did.

You need to draw your own conclusion when attempting to create a bootable clone from Monterey. Perhaps there is a problem with my system but the bootable clone creation was working well when I was using Big Sur.

Charlie

 

[MacInWin]

In general, we're planning to rely less and less on the bootability of the backup volume for recovery from hardware failure. You don't have to be able to boot your Mac from the CCC backup to restore data from it. You can restore individual files and folders using Finder or CCC while booted from your production volume, and you can also recover older versions of files from CCC snapshots. If you ever needed to restore everything from a non-bootable backup, you would install macOS via Recovery mode (e.g. onto a replacement disk), then migrate data from the CCC backup via Migration Assistant. CCC backups are compatible with Migration Assistant, and we support that configuration.

He gets it. Good move on his part to change with the tech.

 

[chscag]

He gets it. Good move on his part to change with the tech.

I agree. I will continue to use CCC to make backups along with Time Machine. Quite frankly even though it may be a bit more difficult to recover than before it certainly is not a show stopper.

And since I intend to purchase a new iMac when the 27" models with the M1X are announced, it won't matter.

 

[MacInWin]

Quite frankly even though it may be a bit more difficult to recover than before it certainly is not a show stopper.

The funny thing is that as long as the hardware works, recovery on my new MBP is actually easier and faster than before. I did it once to see if the screen issue could be repaired that way before I called Apple to get the screen replaced. The entire OS is stored in the secure system enclave, then on Recovery, is moved to the storage area. No waiting for downloading. It was done in a few minutes. Restoration of my data took a bit longer, but I had backup on a TB4 SSD drive, so that was rapid, as well. Much easier than on any Mac I've had before.

 

[chscag]

Glad to hear that. But for now working with my Intel iMac I will just have to get used to the fact that it may take longer to recover.

Now if only Apple would hurry up and get those new 27" M1X iMacs into production.....

 

[Groovetube]

Thanks for posting that. I guess when I get my M1max in a few weeks I’ll begin to figure out what’s changed. When they release the new big iMacs I’m going to have to concoct a good story on why I need one of those too.

 

[Slydude]

Thanks for posting that. I guess when I get my M1max in a few weeks I’ll begin to figure out what’s changed. When they release the new big iMacs I’m going to have to concoct a good story on why I need one of those too.

When you figure that out, please pass it on to me. I think my 2008 MacBook Pro may have given up the ghost today. I still have the iMac but SWMBO thinks she needs a new iPad first.

 

[chscag]

I still have the iMac but SWMBO thinks she needs a new iPad first.

And... you know who has the priority. That is if you want to have a Merry Xmas!

 

[MacInWin]

Thanks for posting that. I guess when I get my M1max in a few weeks I’ll begin to figure out what’s changed. When they release the new big iMacs I’m going to have to concoct a good story on why I need one of those too.

I have an M1 Pro system and would be happy to try to answer any questions you may have. Also, Eclectic Light has a whole section dedicated to the M1 Macs, if you are interesting in the internals of what has changed.

In a nutshell, Apple has made restoring a system with a systemic problem much, much easier, as long as the internal "drive" functions. But if the internal storage has a hardware failure and won't work, it's just like a total CPU failure on the Intel systems. There is a lot more to it, but that is the TL;DR version. Apple refers to the internal "drive" type as "Apple Fabric" to indicate the integration of the system and storage.

 

[Rod]

This is the important bit to me, "If you ever needed to restore everything from a non-bootable backup, you would install macOS via Recovery mode (e.g. onto a replacement disk), then migrate data from the CCC backup via Migration Assistant. CCC backups are compatible with Migration Assistant, and we support that configuration.
I have not tried a bootable CCC backup of Monterey because of the above, but I did attempt it with Big Sur and like Charlie it worked as expected but as updates to BS appeared I could see no point in erasing my current clone to use the Legacy Assistant method of creating a bootable clone.

 

[Groovetube]

“As long as the internal drive functions”.

I guess to me this is the primary reason for a bootable backup. 3 times over the past 2 decades I had a drive go on me in the middle of a project, I plugged in the bootable and kept working. Then replaced the internal drive after and copied over the bootable backup. Didn’t skip a beat. That’s been my setup for years. I would need another system handy to use in the event of a drive failure. I guess there’s a wee price to pay for this fantastic new setup and blazing speed.

 

[Groovetube]

When you figure that out, please pass it on to me. I think my 2008 MacBook Pro may have given up the ghost today. I still have the iMac but SWMBO thinks she needs a new iPad first.

I’d get the iPad first. Good bargaining starting point go from there. Heh.

 

[Rod]

Having said what my view was on a bootable clone in post #10 remember that I was still secure in the knowledge that should my Intel HD fail completely or require replacement I could still use my original (Legacy) bootable version of BS to restore to a new HD or run the device until a new one was available.

The data would be up to date even if the macOS version was not and obviously I could then update that.

This will no longer be possible with the silicon processor so, there seems little point in lamenting its loss.
I just hope that the new processors have long lives because replacing one is unknown territory at the moment.
As for performing a "clean" instal or setting up for resale, trade in or giving away it appears that may be a much simpler process with the erase all data and settings command right in the Apple Menu and reinstall macOS in the Recovery Partition.

eg. I doubt if we will need bootable installers on portable media any more .

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I haven't tried a bootable clone with 12.1 yet. Dawg only knows what Apple broke this time. I was successful making a bootable clone previously with Monterey, and it very specifically came in handy to help me delete a file installed by a mouse utility that was causing me problems and no other method available to me would allow me to delete it. I really hope bootable clones don't die entirely because they do allow for some troubleshooting options and solutions that you can't get otherwise. With that issue I had, lacking a bootable clone, I would likely have had to resort to reinstalling Monterey.

 

[Rod]

Was that on your iMac and did you have to boot from the clone to remove the file? I would have thought Time Machine would have been more useful.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Was that on your iMac and did you have to boot from the clone to remove the file? I would have thought Time Machine would have been more useful.

It was my M1 MBA. And I'm not sure how Time Machine would have been useful in removing a file. The file in question was installed to /Library and caused issues with me playing a full screen game. Here's my psot about it:

Migration from iMac Catalina (Intel) to iMac Big Sur (M1)

I'm shortly to take delivery of an M1 iMac and I'm getting everything ready for the transfer/migration. I use CCC and Time Machine on my existing iMac and shortly after ordering the M1 I found that CCC is about as much use as a 'chocolate tea pot' with the new M1! Probably an exaggeration but...

www.mac-forums.com

 

[MacInWin]

“As long as the internal drive functions”.

I guess to me this is the primary reason for a bootable backup. 3 times over the past 2 decades I had a drive go on me in the middle of a project, I plugged in the bootable and kept working. Then replaced the internal drive after and copied over the bootable backup. Didn’t skip a beat. That’s been my setup for years. I would need another system handy to use in the event of a drive failure. I guess there’s a wee price to pay for this fantastic new setup and blazing speed.

I used to do that, too, but in the M1 systems, that reason for a clone no longer makes sense unless, as you said, you had a whole system handy to use in the event of a hardware failure. For a business, that would make sense, but for the average home user, having a second system just sitting in the wings waiting for a disaster to be used is a but pricey. And probably not needed, anyway, as most home users aren't in a "critical" situation environment. I think once the Mx Macs get a bit more widely used there will be some used systems in the market space that could be used as that emergency backup machine. Right now, for example, an M1 Mini from the used market could be a backup to a more recent M1 MBP or iMac. Whether that will be true with the next iteration of Mx system, whether M1X or M2, is yet to be seen. Intel was good about backward compatibility, Apple's history on that is not so good.

 

[Rod]

It was my M1 MBA. And I'm not sure how Time Machine would have been useful in removing a file. The file in question was installed to /Library and caused issues with me playing a full screen game. Here's my psot about it:

Migration from iMac Catalina (Intel) to iMac Big Sur (M1)

I'm shortly to take delivery of an M1 iMac and I'm getting everything ready for the transfer/migration. I use CCC and Time Machine on my existing iMac and shortly after ordering the M1 I found that CCC is about as much use as a 'chocolate tea pot' with the new M1! Probably an exaggeration but...

www.mac-forums.com

Possibly just me oversimplifying, I though it would be easier to go back to the preference file before you installed the software and restore it to its original state.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Possibly just me oversimplifying, I though it would be easier to go back to the preference file before you installed the software and restore it to its original state.

It wasn’t a preference file. It was something equivalent to a kext file. And it wasn’t about restoring a file. I needed to delete it as part of the complete removal of the app. But macOS has been locked down so tight that removing the file from /Library is apparently not possible while booted from the same volume. It seems it SHOULD be possible, but I couldn’t find a way. Kinda crazy an app can put files there but not remove them.

 

[Rod]

Ahaa! I get it. Yes, there should be an easier way. What about removing Permissions in Security & Privacy settings I wonder?