Stupid bigots.

[mac57]

I am sorry to hear that you are having so much trouble stevenyc. Are these reasonably current Macs running Mac OS X? I do recall hearing that pre OS X, they had a fair number of issues.

 

[RNDdave]

I have a friend - he may even loiter about the forums to see what I post (maybe paranoia) he's not a Windows Fan-boy - he has a good opinion and good knowledge of a few Linux distros yet he doesn't like my MacBook - I mean he likes the look of it - and has commented on a few occasions at the quality of the display - but he just doesn't like OS X and is often commenting on the single mouse button - he knows that a 2 button mouse works.

He's not a stupid person not by any stretch of the imagination - he just doesn't like OS X and there seems to be nothing I can do to 'convert him'.

The cool iLife apps I've demo'd are just toys - just for fun.

How do I convince this intelligent person to give OS X a real chance?

What selling points would you guys throw at him?

Most of the other people I know don't dislike Apple H/W and most perhaps think quite highly of the OS and other software either from experience or what they've heard/seen - they just seem to stick with what's familiar and that is invariably Windows.

 

[WasabiTaylor]

Most recent article by that Maddox guy:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

DISCLAIMER: Explicit language found in the article.

 

[PapaNoHair]

Thats ok - every so often you get a chance to "retaliate" Mine came yesterday. I was talking with someone who was handling our upcoming move for the phone service and he asked me: "do you use Windows 98 or better?" I replied back: "Yes, much better - I use Mac."

 

[mac57]

RNDdave, there may be no reason to convert your friend to Mac OS X. It isn't for everyone. I was a pretty happy Linux user for about two years. If it hadn't been for my ongoing use of two apps, iTunes and Photoshop, which I simply could not run on Linux, I would still be on Linux today, and happy about it.

Linux distros, properly configured, can be a very good environment, offering almost everything you could ever want, all free of charge, and all supported by a vigorous open source community. If your friend is happy there, there is no need for him to move.

By the way, if you want to show him some Linux oriented Mac stuff, point him at my Linux to Mac Switcher's Guide, at:

http://www.campbell-tx.net/MacOSX/Linux2Mac/linux2mac.html

This is a guide for Linux folks how are moving to Macs, or perhaps just considering the move. Lots of useful info that might help your friend to see some of the incremental value in Mac OS X over Linux.

If nothing else, your friend will find a few cool Linux apps that I have written and distributed via the same web site, plus my Light 'n Fast Awards, a guide to the smallest and fastest Linux apps that do the same things as the bigger more bloated ones (for example, lighter and faster equivalents for K3B, Konqueror and the like).

 

[Brown Study]

A few years ago a guy I heartily dislike asked me whether he should get a Windows machine or a Mac because he knew I had one.

I told him to get a Windows machine.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Why do people have to be like that?
If they prefer a pc, good for them. If they prefer a Mac, good for them, too. It gets so old having people belittle others' opinions and purchases by lashing out. Get a life, people!

You can tell the chat buddies I said that.

 

[NolaWegs]

I am surprised by how many of you have had experience with such mean Windows users. Most of the people I know and all of the people I work with use Windows and most all of them consent that mac's are better machines, at least for personal use. I can understand people's problems with mac as far a networking goes, I do too. But it seems to me that mac's were never meant to be network machines. If you are running a decent sized network you would be wise to use windows, that's what they are designed for. Stevenyc, I can understand the problems that your people are having because it seems that they are using mac's on a windows network, something that will never ever work smoothly. Mac's are better as Personal Computers, which is why I find it so funny that Window's machines are called PC's when they, in fact, cannot compare to mac's in terms of their usability and personal appeal.

 

[D R]

HI all, my first post, but I've been reading for awhile. Not sure why I feel like commenting, but I do..please humor my lengthy post.

I use PCs, and enjoy them, frankly I really like Vista. I bought a mini (my first Mac experience ) late last December because I was curious. I have an IT friend who really enjoys his. I enjoy using it, and talk about it, but wouldn't switch. I've used several Linux distros and while I don't mind them, I don't necessarily write home about them either.

I have a hard time using a Mac, simply because it's different. I'm used to the keyboard shortcuts and how to get things done on a PC. OSX doesn't make sense all the time, but that's simply because I haven't used it enough to know. I find lots of good apps for it, the design is nice etc, but have had a few odd problems too with it too. My wireless stops working for awhile. Shutting it down and restarting it, and it works again, is one.

I think one of the problem both camps face is simply in our human nature. If you tell someone what they think sucks and something else is better, you are probobly insulting them, possibly even to one's belief system. Most people retaliate with arguments and shutdown. Maybe those arguments aren't very good, but that's not the point.

I'm not out to convert anyone. My opinions are simply my opinions.

All that being said, I do generally enjoy the forums and hope to learn more and more...thanks all..

 

[RNDdave]

... I can understand people's problems with mac as far a networking goes, I do too. But it seems to me that mac's were never meant to be network machines. If you are running a decent sized network you would be wise to use windows, that's what they are designed for. Stevenyc, I can understand the problems that your people are having because it seems that they are using mac's on a windows network, something that will never ever work smoothly.

Are you aware that Macs are very happy to work with Windows Active Directory?

More Info:

Mac computers work with Active Directory in much the same way Windows clients do. Macintosh systems can use existing Active Directory networks and Exchange mail servers, Microsoft’s VPN server and Microsoft Office applications. Administrators can maintain Mac OS X user names and passwords in Active Directory, authenticate Mac OS X users with Active Directory and allow users to mount their network home directory based on information stored in Active Directory. Mac OS X can also discover multiple domain controllers and automatically determine the closest one. If a domain controller becomes unavailable, the Mac system uses another nearby domain controller.

My university integrated the Mac systems into a Windows 2000, Solaris (forget version number) and Windows NT network very successfully - I was able to access the same files in my user area on the Macs as I was on any of the other machines throughout the campus. (A pretty large and robost network by most standards)

In terms of smaller networks - I've not had any trouble getting my Mac to communicate with the Windows machines that can be found on the small business or home networks that I need to have access to.

 

[RNDdave]

RNDdave, there may be no reason to convert your friend to Mac OS X. It isn't for everyone. I was a pretty happy Linux user for about two years. If it hadn't been for my ongoing use of two apps, iTunes and Photoshop, which I simply could not run on Linux, I would still be on Linux today, and happy about it.

...

Thanks for the link - I'm fairly sure I've looked at it before.

I don't have a problem with his Linux usage - maybe the lack of his Linux usage. Let me explain - although he has quite a bit of experience with Linux he actually uses Windows for 99% of his computing activities. Mainly because of games support I guess.

Anyway - moving away from Linux for a minute...

I should clarify something; I'm not really trying to get him to buy into the Apple world - I realise that is unlikely due to the cost, however as a long time Windows user he had a bit of hesitation going to Linux. A few years ago he had to use Linux as part of his job - I remember Linux distros from that period and they were not the easiest things to work with. Anyway back in 2004 I started using Linux almost exclusively - he had his gripes but was not so hard to talk round into trying Linux. He actually quite liked the modern distros I introduced him to. Thanks to his previous Linux experience he found the modern distros easy to use and manage and started using Linux as a second OS for several months - recently he returned to Windows (as stated earlier - I think this is games related).

Okay okay - this is getting to be a long reply...

To finish up - I'd just like to find a way of getting him to try OS X - I'm sure he'd like it - but he just doesn't see it as a 'real OS' - it's a toy - nothing more.

I guess the end result is that I guess I wouldn't make a very good Apple Sales Man huh

 

[torchy]

Ford versus Chev, Coke versus Pepsi, Mac versus Windows, does any of it really matter.
Take Care fellow humans

 

[walkerj]

One thing I have learned after two years of Mac ownership/usership after many years using IBM Mainframes, VAXen, Suns, NeXTs, DOS, Linux, and Windows of many versions: of the primary three choices available today while Linux is a good fallback, having a Mac makes it so I just don't care anymore about Windows issues. I don't care about Windows versions, don't care about its capabilities, price of its hardware, that it runs on all hardware (including Macs), or the software that is available for it. My Mac does it all in a form that I can take with me anywhere I want.

Heck, just today I had to go to the doctor for some issue. While in the waiting room, I started up an iChat with my wife (who is in the hospital with her Macbook) using some unsecured WAP that my Macbook found. Once I got in the exam room and was waiting for the doctor to show up I started a video iChat with my wife. So from anyone observing from the side it looked like somebody talking to their computer, and when the doctor came in I'm sure that's what she initially thought. But then I turned the screen over to her and my wife had a little real-time chat with the doctor (who is also her general doc.) The doctor was quite impressed with that capability.

Can a Windows laptop do this? Maybe, but I don't care. I can now, and reliably. My wife is working on some pictures of her cat while she's in the hospital and being very productive. I'm using mine to keep up with finances, communicate with people, do some Windows things I need to do here and there, watch the launch of the SpaceX Falcon in the middle of the Pacific, post this message, and get my email.

I watched with amusement when Vista came out and even more amusement over the initial problems/frustrations users encountered. I watched Bill Gates walk off the stage at The Daily Show and Steve Ballmer going on one of his rants about anything that dares to challenge Microsoft's dominance.

Granted, the entry fee to this world is a little higher, but once paid it's like being in a country club where the drinks are free, and everything is where it should be. There's a string band playing some classical music (on iTunes) and a community who talks mostly about how great our computers are (because they are) with maybe a community offshoot of some people complaining about how the Finder needs to be fixed, and Macs aren't PERFECT (because they aren't.) But overall it's a nice, full featured place that has everything an individual would need, and plenty of other features that aren't available to the rabble out there using Windows.

When Windows users post about how Macs are this, and Windows are better for that, and anything else that they might feel the need to hurl their feces at I just don't care anymore. I go back to listening to Genesis singing "I don't care anymore" on iTunes, and happily use my Macbook to get stuff done. If they're going to be ignorant, so be it. They can wallow in their own crapulance.

I'll be over here on my Macbook surfing the net and chatting with my wife.

 

[cwa107]

That seems odd to me.

I might have mentioned that I'm "the IT guy" where I work, so I get a lot of people stopping by my desk when it's time for a new machine asking my opinion. My MacBook Pro goes with me to work every day and is displayed proudly on my desk. Occasionally, other geeks that work there will stop by and are just in awe of it. I can't say that I've ever had a single negative reaction when I've suggested a Mac. Most people are very interested and love to see how it works.

I can tell you that people who use PCs for a living generally have a distaste for Windows. Most of them are intrigued by the prospect of owning a machine that works well and doesn't need constant maintenance or costly anti-virus/security products.

I think the majority of those that sneer at Macs are hardcore, immature fan-boys who grew up on Windows. Those of us that have had computers of some sort that predate Windows long for the good old days when running a computer at home didn't involve worrying about spyware and viruses. Those are the folks that appreciate an alternative to Windows.

I've now converted about a dozen people over to Macs, every one of them after getting over the initial learning curve are very happy with their purchase. Unfortunately, there will always be close-minded, ignorant folks who will blissfully go about using Windows, thinking that endless viruses, security updates, spyware and random lock-ups are just the way things are with computers. I say let them enjoy their illusions and know that you can actually get something done when it's time to sit in front of your machine.

 

[dtravis7]

When Windows users post about how Macs are this, and Windows are better for that, and anything else that they might feel the need to hurl their feces at I just don't care anymore. I go back to listening to Genesis singing "I don't care anymore" on iTunes, and happily use my Macbook to get stuff done. If they're going to be ignorant, so be it. They can wallow in their own crapulance.

I love that song and play it to people who do that to me! Funny you mentioned that tune! Fits!

I really do not give a care what people think, I know what my computers can do and just what it takes to make me happy and get my stuff done. I will always use what makes me happy and gives me the least problems. Life it too short to worry and stress about computer issues! Give me one that works and does what I need, and I will be happy. :spook:

 

[NanoBite]

I was watching tv last night as I was foruming (EyeTV) and in two shows; "Crossing Jordan" & "Vanished", the FBI or whoever they were .... had a plethora of iMacs set up in the HQ ... I'd never seen so many lovely iMacs in one place .... that can only go to prove a point .... the popularity, secureness and dependableness of macs or ..... the producer has done a deal with Apple?

 

[leecho7]

In my honest opinion, I wouldn't consider myself a 'Mac Convert'. Not by a long shot. I find myself using both OS X and Windows on two separate machines. Do I think one is better than the other? No.
To me, both Windows and Mac are equally annoying.
In my opinion, it is not the hardware or the OS, but it is the applications that guide my decision making in regards to computers.

 

[Tak]

Anyway I don't know why people try to create the American English to British/Commonwealth English all the time.

Last I was in England I had people trying to explain to me as if I were a bit slow, things like "lift means elevator" and such. I had to keep explaining that I'd watched BBC programming since I was a child, and that despite speaking American I was perfectly capable of understanding English. It made me sad to think of the sort of tourists we must usually send them if this is necessary.

In fact, in Yorkshire, I upset a postal worker by my use of English. She said, "quite loudly" YOU ARE AN AMERICAN YOU SAY CHIPS NOT CRISPS!

There is more than enough difference for amusing miscommunication.

 

[D3v1L80Y]

In my honest opinion, I wouldn't consider myself a 'Mac Convert'. Not by a long shot. I find myself using both OS X and Windows on two separate machines. Do I think one is better than the other? No.
To me, both Windows and Mac are equally annoying.
In my opinion, it is not the hardware or the OS, but it is the applications that guide my decision making in regards to computers.

Excellent way of thinking and working.

My two cents....
I believe that too many people are quick to judge or blame an OS when things don't go as planned. Nobody will own up to or admit to the fact that many times it has nothing to do with the OS, but rather it has everything to do with user-end error. Computers are only tools and will only do as they are instructed.

 

[Stretch]

Excellent way of thinking and working.

My two cents....
I believe that too many people are quick to judge or blame an OS when things don't go as planned. Nobody will own up to or admit to the fact that many times it has nothing to do with the OS, but rather it has everything to do with user-end error. Computers are only tools and will only do as they are instructed.

You mean like an ID-ten-T error, or error found between keyboard and chair?