Should a man even consider new machines or aim for a choice older refurb model these days?

[ced89]

Here it is

AIG or Apple, on AIG’s behalf, may cancel Your Policy in the event that Apple is no longer able to service Your Covered Equipment, at which point You will be provided with one month advance notice that Your Policy will be cancelled and Your Policy will cease to renew.

I guess that this could be when they consider their items obsolete, that is around 7y, but better to consider 6 just to remove the offset...

 

[Toroidal]

Your new machine will last well for a decade, probably better than my machine lasted for a decade. The weak links for such a long time are things like non-replaceable batteries.
This swollen laptop battery issue I have is my main machine, so although it is a risk to use, I cannot stop using it. Since it will even remain useful for years to come, I am wondering if I should consult an Apple Store about this issue.

 

[ced89]

Your new machine will last well for a decade, probably better than my machine lasted for a decade. The weak links for such a long time are things like non-replaceable batteries.
This swollen laptop battery issue I have is my main machine, so although it is a risk to use, I cannot stop using it. Since it will even remain useful for years to come, I am wondering if I should consult an Apple Store about this issue.

I'm not aware of non-replaceable batteries, probably you mean that it requires skills and tools beyond the an home user, which is also my case btw, a little mistake and I break some component...
Apple can certainly replace it, or a third party support if it's too old, as long as they find a decent battery on the market, it would be certainly used for a 10y old laptop...

 

[MacInWin]

This swollen laptop battery issue I have is my main machine, so although it is a risk to use, I cannot stop using it. Since it will even remain useful for years to come, I am wondering if I should consult an Apple Store about this issue.

It is also a fire risk, so get it replaced. If you have a Experimax near you, they do replace batteries for pretty much all Macs that have them.

https://www.experimax.com/

I have no financial interest in Experimax, I'm just a happy customer.

 

[ced89]

Does anyone know the answer to this? There aren't many informations on how it works.

Should a man even consider new machines or aim for a choice older refurb model these days?

Here it is AIG or Apple, on AIG’s behalf, may cancel Your Policy in the event that Apple is no longer able to service Your Covered Equipment, at which point You will be provided with one month advance notice that Your Policy will be cancelled and Your Policy will cease to renew. I guess that...

www.mac-forums.com

 

[MacInWin]

Does anyone know the answer to this? There aren't many informations on how it works.

Should a man even consider new machines or aim for a choice older refurb model these days?

Here it is AIG or Apple, on AIG’s behalf, may cancel Your Policy in the event that Apple is no longer able to service Your Covered Equipment, at which point You will be provided with one month advance notice that Your Policy will be cancelled and Your Policy will cease to renew. I guess that...

www.mac-forums.com

There is no question in the quote to answer. What is it you are looking for?

 

[ced89]

There is no question in the quote to answer. What is it you are looking for?

Sorry, I meant if I understood correctly or not, that is, I can renew Apple care for more than 5y (yearly contract), or until the product is not considered obsolete.
This is crucial in the evaluation I'm making, because I want that this super expensive laptop will be insured for the whole time.

 

[MacInWin]

As I said, AC+ can only be active for 3 years, annually paid or not. Unless UK has different rules. If AC+ is the crucial factor, you are not evaluating the purchase properly. There are no absolute guarantees for computers, anywhere.

 

[ced89]

As I said, AC+ can only be active for 3 years, annually paid or not. Unless UK has different rules. If AC+ is the crucial factor, you are not evaluating the purchase properly. There are no absolute guarantees for computers, anywhere.

Surely, but companies like Dell and Lenovo offer 5y for sure, maybe not more than 5y.
(I didn't write it because I believe that Windows is better )

I think that for any warranty, 5y is just normal, even KIA gives 7y in some part of Europe, if not worldwide, but also 10y since 2008...
Also other cars manufactors give warranty for 5y easy easy, without extention...

 

[Jimmysb]

The UK law on consumer products I understand is for 6 years:

Under consumer laws in the UK, consumers are entitled to a free of charge repair and (depending on the circumstances) may be entitled to a replacement, discount or refund by the seller, of defective goods or goods which do not conform with the contract of sale. For goods purchased in England or Wales, these rights expire six years from delivery of the goods and for goods purchased in Scotland, these rights expire five years from delivery of the goods.

Taken from the apple site:

Legal - Apple Products and Consumer Laws in the United Kingdom - Apple

www.apple.com

 

[MacInWin]

defective goods or goods which do not conform with the contract of sale.

Key words. Is a Mac "defective" if it fails after 5 years? I would say the "contract of sale" would not say so, but limit the time to three, as is Apple's policy. Again, I don't live in UK, so maybe the law is different. Does Apple claim that their devices will last longer than three years? That would seem to be key if one had to go to the courts for a failed computer.

I think that for any warranty, 5y is just normal, even KIA gives 7y in some part of Europe, if not worldwide, but also 10y since 2008...
Also other cars manufactors give warranty for 5y easy easy, without extention...

What other companies may or may not do is immaterial. I have some possessions with lifetime warranties, but others without any. It depends on the seller, not what others do. Comparisons to cars is particularly immaterial.

 

[ced89]

Key words. Is a Mac "defective" if it fails after 5 years? I would say the "contract of sale" would not say so, but limit the time to three, as is Apple's policy. Again, I don't live in UK, so maybe the law is different. Does Apple claim that their devices will last longer than three years? That would seem to be key if one had to go to the courts for a failed computer.

He meant the standard UK consumer law, which is 6y in England (forget Apple care), or 5y in the rest of the countries in UK.
I know it sounds strange, but I've heard a lot of stories about it, also from ex employees, and they told me that they always replaced the stuff for Apple UK users without Apple care up to 6y, they didn't have a choice.
I didn't' believe it initially and I wanted to **** them actually , but I think it makes sense.

For example, if the monitor breaks before 6y (with artifacts, blue lines etc), then it must have been for a defect, excluding damages obviously.
Same for the PSU, RAM, CPU, whatever has not been damaged, even the keyboard.

Think about gaming stuff or workstation stuff like PSU, they have warranty between 5-12y, my CPU had 3y, my 2TB M2 5y (1200 TBW), my monitor 2y for UK law as far as I know, there was no mention about 6y...

So I think that the UK makes sure that companies don't intentionally rip off the users with items that are badly made, or made on purpose to break soon...
In fact, I've seen commonly warranties of 5-10y, for example, for house appliances, and why not for a MacBook, is it not the same thing? It's just to protect the users and the environment too, by the way...

-----------------------------------------------
My question started with Apple care instead, just because Apple care is faster and provides me also coverage for accidents, so I was looking at that mostly, rather than the special rules in UK, but I still would like to have a strong proof of this UK law though, I still have doubts...


Anyway, look at this:

The primary responsibility to provide a remedy is on the seller, which would be Apple if the goods were purchased from the Apple Online Store or an Apple Retail Store. If the goods were purchased from a third-party reseller of Apple products, the primary responsibility to provide a remedy will lie with the reseller. For goods purchased in England or Wales, these rights expire six years from delivery of the goods. For goods purchased in Scotland, these rights expire five years from delivery of the goods. A claim under UK consumer law may be made subject to the defect being present at the time of purchase.

Any defect or non-conformity of goods with the contract which becomes apparent within 6 months of delivery are presumed to have existed at the time of delivery. After the expiry of this 6-month period, the burden to prove that the defect or non-conformity of goods with the contract existed on delivery generally shifts to the consumer.

Reference: Legal - Apple Products and Consumer Laws in the United Kingdom - Apple

--------------------------------
There are a couple of question marks here:
1. Did I understand well the 6y warranty for defects that can pop up after 6 months too??
2. Will they replace the monitor if there is a single blue line for example?
3. Will they replace the keyboard if one button doesn't work? Not broken from outside, just doesn't type.
4. What about the some burned component inside? It's common to see MacBooks melting down and the thermal throttling of M1/M2 is always at 105 degrees, not before! I can't consider this problem fixed as of today...

Normally, all these things are stuff of the manufactor, certainly not damages that I can cause...
I'm just not sure if I'll be successful in blaming Apple for such things...

------------------------------

What other companies may or may not do is immaterial. I have some possessions with lifetime warranties, but others without any. It depends on the seller, not what others do. Comparisons to cars is particularly immaterial.

This was a rough example that companies do offer warranties for a much longer time than 1y in US or 2y in other common countries, with standard contracts or extended contracts.

 

[ced89]

In addition to the previous fundamental message, this guy explains the same:

The video is old but it's the exact point I wanted to touch here and the law is still the same, same posted also on the Apple website.
I don't even need Apple care at this point, as long as I don't damage the laptop .

The critical part is to make a claim under consumer law, and you can also ask a full refund after 1 wrong repair done.

Btw, he made another video after 1y:

Videos aside, I think he's right, besides, if other items in other industries have long warranties, why not on consumer electronics in UK, that's my reasoning.
Plus, CPU/GPUs can last decades, the M2 a decade for sure for the average user, just an example.
So, bye bye Apple Care and hopefully I don't damage the laptop .

 

[Toroidal]

It is also a fire risk, so get it replaced. If you have a Experimax near you, they do replace batteries for pretty much all Macs that have them.

https://www.experimax.com/

I have no financial interest in Experimax, I'm just a happy customer.

Thanks, there aren't any such places near me. Plus, since this is my main machine that I have to use daily I wouldn't be able to stop using it until I have a replacement device. Lastly, would you wipe your drive before handing it in for repairs in case the technician wants to boot up your computer, or would you simply make a guest user account?

 

[MacInWin]

Well, unless I had super secret, or super embarrassing information, or unencrypted password lists, I'd just had it over with a guest account. But I would make a backup first.

Find a good repair shop that knows something about Apple and get the battery replaced.

 

[ced89]

Thanks, there aren't any such places near me. Plus, since this is my main machine that I have to use daily I wouldn't be able to stop using it until I have a replacement device. Lastly, would you wipe your drive before handing it in for repairs in case the technician wants to boot up your computer, or would you simply make a guest user account?

If I'm not wrong, macOS encrypts the data anyway with the password of your account, and no one at the repair shop would bother to crack it.
With that encryption, they encrypt only the file content, so the file names are visible, not a big problem in the chaos of things .
If you are concerned about those too, try to reset the T2 chip, or whatever it is, that contains also the master key, there are instructions online. With that, no way to recover data, regardless of how much your password was secure. This works if you succeed to turn on the laptop though, I don't think you can do it with a simple button hidden somewhere like in other laptops.


If you used the full disk encryption instead (called FileVault), that wouldn't reveal anything on the disk...

 

[MacInWin]

If I'm not wrong, macOS encrypts the data anyway with the password of your account, and no one at the repair shop would bother to crack it.
With that encryption, they encrypt only the file content, so the file names are visible, not a big problem in the chaos of things .

Only on the Macs with T2 chips, or Mx systems. Macs prior to the T2 are not encrypted by default.
And the directory is encrypted as well. The entire system is encrypted.

But, the repair shop will still need to be able to boot the machine to be able to test it, so they will need some account for that. Guest will work.

EDIT: FileVault will encrypt the entire drive, and require the password even to boot, so the shop will need that password as well.

 

[ced89]

Only on the Macs with T2 chips, or Mx systems. Macs prior to the T2 are not encrypted by default.
And the directory is encrypted as well. The entire system is encrypted.

But, the repair shop will still need to be able to boot the machine to be able to test it, so they will need some account for that. Guest will work.

EDIT: FileVault will encrypt the entire drive, and require the password even to boot, so the shop will need that password as well.

The entire system (in terms of data in /Users/$USER can't be encrypted without Full Disk Encryption.

FileVault doesn't block the boot process, at least not when I make a reboot, that's strange...
You made me suspicious, let's shut it down .
But yeah, in theory it should require the passphrase to unlock the partitions.

 

[MacInWin]

The entire system (in terms of data in /Users/$USER can't be encrypted without Full Disk Encryption.

FileVault doesn't block the boot process, at least not when I make a reboot, that's strange...
You made me suspicious, let's shut it down .
But yeah, in theory it should require the passphrase to unlock the partitions.

From Apple:

When FileVault is turned on, your Mac requires your user account password to unlock your built-in startup disk and allow your Mac to finish starting up. No user account is permitted to log in automatically. Follow the appropriate steps based on the version of macOS you're using.

You can read for yourself here: Use FileVault to encrypt your Mac startup disk

In T2 systems and Mx systems the entire USER area is encrypted. Read this:

Disk encryption, FileVault and hardware encryption

What is FileVault encryption? Is it the same as that on an M1 Mac’s internal SSD, or something different? How can you use it instead of overwriting an SSD? Which boot volumes are encrypted?

eclecticlight.co

Apple encrypts with a system key, no matter what. If the user wants to, they can add a second key to further protect the data, but if the system is simply read outside of the operating system (i.e., removed from the system in Intel machines, or bypassed in Apple Silicon machines, the drive itself is encrypted and unreadable. If the user doesn't add a second key by turning on FV, then the first key is provided at boot time by the use of the login information for the user.

 

[ced89]

From Apple:

You can read for yourself here: Use FileVault to encrypt your Mac startup disk

In T2 systems and Mx systems the entire USER area is encrypted. Read this:

Disk encryption, FileVault and hardware encryption

What is FileVault encryption? Is it the same as that on an M1 Mac’s internal SSD, or something different? How can you use it instead of overwriting an SSD? Which boot volumes are encrypted?

eclecticlight.co

Apple encrypts with a system key, no matter what. If the user wants to, they can add a second key to further protect the data, but if the system is simply read outside of the operating system (i.e., removed from the system in Intel machines, or bypassed in Apple Silicon machines, the drive itself is encrypted and unreadable. If the user doesn't add a second key by turning on FV, then the first key is provided at boot time by the use of the login information for the user.

I'll test it, but on the menu, it says that File Vault has encrypted the drive with the user login, no additional key.
Strange thing I know, but that's what I see, let's see with a shutdown.