Relative preformance

[Avid6eek]

Just went to NewEgg to see what the cost of a high quality identical system would cost. Compared it to a PowerMac Dual DualCore 2.5Ghz PowerMac with 2GB RAM, and a 7800GT ($4,364 - tax + shipping included).

With the Opteron 280's (2.4Ghz) the total comes to $4,043...by the time you consider your labor to put it together, they are very similiar in price. With the Opteron 275's which would give the systems relatively equal performance, with each system winning some benchmarks, the price drops to $3,543. That's a pretty significant price difference.

 

[technologist]

The 2.4Ghz Opterons are too fast for a direct comparison. Anandtech did a dual processor shootout and in most cases the 2.4Ghz models beat the 2.7Ghz G5's...with the dual core 2.5Ghz models which are currently Apples fastest the fairest comparison would be dual core 2.2Ghz Opterons. There is a significant price difference between the 2.2 Opty's and 2.4's....And yes, Anandtech is by far the most unbias reviewer of Mac/PC hardware out there.

I agree. And they were good enough to amend their initial review with a comparison that more accurately reflected the performance of the G5 with properly optimized code for both platforms.

More importantly, in Anand's real-world application benchmarks a dual 2.5GHz G5 scored as well or higher than the dual Opteron 2.4GHz. (Scroll down to "The G5 as workstation processor")

 

[Amen-Moses]

The 2.4Ghz Opterons are too fast for a direct comparison.

Says who? CreativeMac have posted their comparison test and the quad 2.4 system only managed to match the quad Mac in most tests, slightly beat it in a few and got roasted in a couple so they appear to be a very good match. Of course the tests were all about professional level graphics, i,e rendering tests, video editing etc.

The video card they used (quadra 4500) points to what their test was all about, they obviously don't care about doom 3 stats but there again anyone who buys a Mac to play doom on is a few sandwiches short of a picnic imo.

I could build a system tomorrow for under a grand that will blow away even a quad G5 btw. Simply get 10 EPIA M1000 boards, a rack mount+PSU and set it up as a Linux cluster. That won't play doom very well either but with the right software for some tasks it would blow away any off the shelf system at the same cost.

Personally if I wanted a workstation for any graphics intensive work I'd definitely choose the quad G5, if I wanted to play games I'd probably chose the Xbox360.

Amen-Moses

 

[technologist]

Just went to NewEgg to see what the cost of a high quality identical system would cost. Compared it to a PowerMac Dual DualCore 2.5Ghz PowerMac with 2GB RAM, and a 7800GT ($4,364 - tax + shipping included).

With the Opteron 280's (2.4Ghz) the total comes to $4,043...by the time you consider your labor to put it together, they are very similiar in price. With the Opteron 275's which would give the systems relatively equal performance, with each system winning some benchmarks, the price drops to $3,543. That's a pretty significant price difference.

Get the memory for the Mac from Crucial instead of from Apple, and the Mac's price drops to $3868...a couple of hundred less than your $4043 2.4GHz Opteron rig. Get the same memory from Newegg, and the Mac's price drops further.

 

[Avid6eek]

more importantly, in Anand's real-world application benchmarks a dual 2.5GHz G5 scored as well or higher than the dual Opteron 2.4GHz. (Scroll down to "The G5 as workstation processor")

You are misreading some of those benchmarks...lower scores are better when rendering....that specific benchmark you are referring to, "G5 as a workstation processor", the Mac gets totally owned.

Yes, you can save some $$$ if you buy your Mac some memory elsewhere. One thing I didn't add is the $249 just to get a 3 year warranty from Apple. All the PC hardware includes a 3-lifetime warranty depending on the part.

 

[technologist]

You are misreading some of those benchmarks...lower scores are better when rendering....that specific benchmark you are referring to, "G5 as a workstation processor", the Mac gets totally owned.

In the Povray test, yeah. In the non-Radiosity Lightwave tracer, The G5 basically ties the Opteron; there's a difference of about 1.1%. In the Radiosity tracer, the Opteron scores better than the G5. (The P4 "totally owns" both Opteron and G5 in Lightwave.) Cinebench is a scaled benchmark, not a timed one, and the Opteron scores dead last.

If you're keeping track, that's Opteron 2, G5 1, and one tie. By no stretch of the imagination does the Opteron "totally own" the G5.

If you take the time to actually read the article, as well as the followup, you'd get a better picture. Read the articles and the conclusions. The difference between the G5 and Opteron is tiny. So tiny that a tweak of the compiler settings will push the balance in either chip's favor. And the price difference, at least for quad-core machines, is tiny. The whole "My newegg PC will pwn a G5 at twice the price!" just doesn't make sense.

 

[Malcy]

It must be getting lost in translation across the Atlantic, but what does

the Mac gets totally owned

mean?

 

[technologist]

In hacker slang, "own" means to demonstrate superiority to an extreme degree; to embarrass.

Originally, "I own your computer" meant "I have hacked into your computer and now control it." In computer games, "I own you" means "I can play far better than you can." It is often (deliberately) misspelled "pwn."

 

[Avid6eek]

In hacker slang, "own" means to demonstrate superiority to an extreme degree; to embarrass.

Originally, "I own your computer" meant "I have hacked into your computer and now control it." In computer games, "I own you" means "I can play far better than you can." It is often (deliberately) misspelled "pwn."

You can pwn, or be pwnd

 

[mynameis]

This thread has become pretty long and I don't feel like reading all of it, but I am going to say that Avid6geek knows what he is talking about, listen to him.

 

[technologist]

This thread has become pretty long and I don't feel like reading all of it, but I am going to say that Avid6geek knows what he is talking about, listen to him.

I don't doubt his knowledge, just the way he states broad generalizations and exaggerations as if they were fact.

Opteron systems don't "totally own" the G5 in any test there. Any performance difference is tiny.
You cannot buy or build a quad Opteron cheaper than a quad G5.

I base those statements on numbers you can verify for yourself. Don't trust me, trust your own eyes.

 

[Malcy]

Thanks for translating for me

 

[Avid6eek]

You cannot buy or build a quad Opteron cheaper than a quad G5.

I must say I disagree with you.

Dual AMD Opteron 280 - 2.4Ghz, 4 cores
Asus Dual Socket 940 nForce 4 Professional Motherboard
2GB Corsiar Registered PC3200 (2x1GB)
EVGA nVidia GeForce 7800GTX
Western Digital 250GB SATA2 HD
Sony 16X Dual Layer DVD-RW
Coolermaster Aluminum Case
Enermax 550w PSU
$3,903.67 (shipping + tax included)

Apple PowerMac Quad 2.5Ghz
2GB Memory (2x1GB)
7800GT
3 Year Apple Care
$4,965.84 (tax + shipping included)


Go ahead and shop around for memory for the Mac from other locations. That'll cut the costs a bit, but not by $1,000. All my prices came from NewEgg. I can shop around on other sites and lower the PC costs as well.

 

[Amen-Moses]

I must say I disagree with you.

Dual AMD Opteron 280 - 2.4Ghz, 4 cores
Asus Dual Socket 940 nForce 4 Professional Motherboard
2GB Corsiar Registered PC3200 (2x1GB)
EVGA nVidia GeForce 7800GTX
Western Digital 250GB SATA2 HD
Sony 16X Dual Layer DVD-RW
Coolermaster Aluminum Case
Enermax 550w PSU
$3,903.67 (shipping + tax included)

Apple PowerMac Quad 2.5Ghz
2GB Memory (2x1GB)
7800GT
3 Year Apple Care
$4,965.84 (tax + shipping included)


Go ahead and shop around for memory for the Mac from other locations. That'll cut the costs a bit, but not by $1,000. All my prices came from NewEgg. I can shop around on other sites and lower the PC costs as well.

So take off the Applecare and add software to the Opteron system and then they match.

Still doesn't change the fact that you are not comparing like with like and if you do (i.e a HP built system compared to an Apple built one) the quad Mac comes out cheaper.

Amen-Moses

 

[Avid6eek]

So take off the Applecare and add software to the Opteron system and then they match.

Still doesn't change the fact that you are not comparing like with like and if you do (i.e a HP built system compared to an Apple built one) the quad Mac comes out cheaper.

Amen-Moses

Yes, your are right. You can add $140 for Windows XP Professional. You definetly wouldn't get rid of Apple Care, as all the PC hardware comes with a 3 year to lifetime warranty with support. If anything the Apple warranty is a little shorter on average.

One of the main advantages of the PC world is that you can do everything yourself, so no, I don't feel compelled to have to get a quote from a large OEM.

 

[dtravis7]

There was a user on Anandtech forums who talked that way. Said Intel OWNED AMD then later even said Raped and a few other words I should not post on Mac Forums. He was deleted from Anandtech Forums for Trolling. A couple of percent is not OWNING. Read the conclusion to the 2nd article on Anandtech. Johan even states he is worried about Apple Switching to Intel. I read both those articles the day they came out and know them well. I am a LONG TIME Anandtecher, since 1999.

The Main REASON I bought a Mac in the first place is for OSX. For everything I do on a computer it's a far better OS. I have ran every version of Windows since 2.0 and up and am very good with any of them and never get spyware because I know what I am doing, but OSX for what I do is in a class by itself. And yes, I have nice PC's, AMD 64 with just slightly lower specs than yours. it's GREAT for games.

The Main problem with OSX right now is the server version for certain server applications running many threads. From what I understand they are working on those problems. But for me and most people who do not run OSX Server with Apache and the other apps that johan was having issues with, OSX is one nice OS. I have both but really use the AMD 64 mostly for Games as most of the games I really like are not even available on the MAC.

 

[Avid6eek]

We can even take it another step further...

Coolermaster Aluminum Case
Enermax 420w PSU
AMD Opteron 148
MSI nForce 4 Motherboard
1 GB PC3200 DDR
250GB HD
16X Dual Layer DVD-RW
Dell 2005fpw 20.1" LCD
Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
$1536.93 (tax + shipping included)

Apple iMac G5 2.1Ghz
1GB DDR2 Memory
3 Year Apple Care
2125.44 (tax + shipping included)

Ouch...now that's a huge difference....an additional 33% cost on top of the PC. The iMac does win the style points, however the PC has great connectivity and upgradability.

I can even bring the price war to the Mac Mini, although that is much harder.

 

[Avid6eek]

I agree with you dtravis7. OSX is a beautiful operating system that would do the average user a world of good compared to WinXP. You really have to know what your doing to be a good Windows user.

Apple has really got something going with how frequently they update the OS. Even though They charge more than it's worth for each update, it's still a nice process.

The main purpose of my system is gaming, as well as schoolwork. Nothing compares to Windows for gaming. Windows is also a much more responsive OS which helps to give a speedy feel to it, and you can cut it down much further than OS X. I'm sure Vista is going to take some of the peppiness away, and probably bulk up the install as well, but hopefully it'll have a few improvements as well so it can catch up to OS X in terms of features.

 

[dtravis7]

I guess by the begining of next year I will know about Vista. I was recomended as a tester of Vista by a close friend of mine at Microsoft and should soon have my copy to evaluate and send suggestions back to Microsoft. It will go on my A64 of course! Should be fun.

I will post my findings here when I work with it a bit.

 

[Avid6eek]

I've been running it for quite a while. Alot of the features that are expected in the final release aren't there yet. The next major Beta release is supposed to have the new GUI, so I'm looking forward to that.