New MacBook Air, need printer recommendations please

[ferrarr]

My last HP printer died in 2008-2009. I got it in 2002 so I was happy with it. It was a higher price point model @ $180.00 so that may have had something to do with it. I also have not had good luck with Canon printers, and also Brother printers. But, all the Canon and Brother printers were the lesser price point models, they were like free with purchase give away models, that my family loved to get and would ask me to fix. Now I have an Epson that I've had for 5 years without issues, until I tried a third party ink, and now it won't print. I still haven't tried troubleshooting it yet. I really don't print much anymore, so not worried about it.

 

[krs]

Now I have an Epson that I've had for 5 years without issues, until I tried a third party ink, and now it won't print. I still haven't tried troubleshooting it yet. I really don't print much anymore, so not worried about it.

I currently use an Epson WF-7720 as mymain printer; I use "Moustache" 3rd party cartridges and the Epson printer complains in the display when I change cartridge, reminding me that these are not genuine Epson - but then it prints very well anyway.
Probem I had with Brother that the paper path took a relatively tight 180 degree turn, supply tray and output tray both in the front, so I could not print on any heavy paper - it just got stuck.
Was a bit pissed off about that because I only found out after I had bought it.
Older Epsons I have used had the supply tray at the back at an angle facing up so there was a relatively straight paper path.
The WF-7720 also has a 180 degree turn in the paper path (but maybe not a tight as the Brother) when fed from the font supply tray but it also offers a supply tray at the back for single heavy paper when needed.
When I was shopping for printers in the past I never thought I had to consider the printers paper path,but that has changed.
I need a printer that can print and scan up to A3 paper - that really limits the choices if one is on a budget.

 

[pm-r]

Probem I had with Brother that the paper path took a relatively tight 180 degree turn, supply tray and output tray both in the front, so I could not print on any heavy paper - it just got stuck.
Was a bit pissed off about that because I only found out after I had bought it.
Older Epsons I have used had the supply tray at the back at an angle facing up so there was a relatively straight paper path.

Unfortunately, for some of us, this is a very common problem now with recent printers, many now have a problem printing on even normal cardstock, and forget about trying to use anything heavier, unlike a lot of older model printers that had a pass through sloth in the rear for very little bending of any heavy stock.

Such printers seem to be few and far between these days. Also direct optical disc printing seems to have completely disappeared for those who still do so.

But it's amazing how many super sticky Stomper Optical labels I still seem to have for use in ordinary printers. And BTW, there is no way that that brand and some others like Avery come un-stuck. Avoid and never use the generic no-brand stick-on optical disc labels.




- Patrick
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[Randy B. Singer]

I have always had good success and good support for HP inkjet printers on my Macs.

Let me be clear about what I'm saying and not saying.

I'm not saying that everyone who purchases an HP printer has a negative experience. In fact, MANY HP owners have excellent experiences with HP's products.

What I'm saying is that far too many Macintosh users have negative experiences with their HP products. I hear about them all the time. And some of those experiences are things that should never be the case. A Mac user who calls in for support should NEVER be told that his or her problem is that they should be using a Windows computer. (Yes, I've heard from more than one Macintosh user that they were told this by HP support.) A printer manufacturer should NEVER abandon a printer that is only a few years old by refusing to offer any more driver updates. And HP should be embarrassed that they regularly come out with driver updates many months after every other manufacturer has.

My personal inclination is not to support companies that don't very diligently support the Macintosh. Especially when they have competitors out there who are doing better, and sometimes MUCH better. If you preferentially support companies that diligently support the Macintosh, other companies may just decide that they have to follow suit, and it will make things better for all of us.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Probem I had with Brother that the paper path took a relatively tight 180 degree turn, supply tray and output tray both in the front, so I could not print on any heavy paper - it just got stuck.

The printer manufactures are kind of caught in a difficult spot. Users scream when they have to open a rear paper feeder, because that means that the printer can't be pushed all the way back to the back wall, and the printer takes up more desk space than they want it to.

Recent Canons took a different approach, they have a front panel that opens up about an inch or two, and users screamed about that too.

The thing is, you can have an ultra-compact desktop printer, or you can have one that has a straight through paper path which allows for heavier paper stock. You can't really have both.

There is a similar problem with laser printer consumables. You can have a tiny desktop laser printer, but it's going to have a smaller toner cartridge as a tradeoff, and you are going to have to replace your toner cartridge more often as a result. You can't really have a tiny desktop laser printer that prints something like 8,000 pages before having to change out consumables.

Was a bit pissed off about that because I only found out after I had bought it.

This is why I keep harping on the topic of only purchasing from a source that has an excellent return policy, and only purchasing with a credit card which will come to your aid if the vendor refuses to honor that policy.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

...I also have not had good luck with Canon printers, and also Brother printers. But, all the Canon and Brother printers were the lesser price point models...

I can confidently say that every one of the major printer manufacturers make a range of printers to meet various price points. If you look at the cheapest printers from all of these companies, they are uniformly dreck and should be avoided. That doesn't mean that all products from the company are to be avoided, just that you can't give in to being too cheap.

If you go to someplace like Walmart or Target, you will find models that are unique to those stores, which appear to be very reasonably priced, but which should be avoided because they have been built (cheaply) to a price point.

Printer manufacturers have sweet spots in their offerings. Sometimes they have a nice range to their sweet spots. Products that aren't too expensive, but which offer good features, good quality, and which are an excellent buy. That's where it turns out to be an advantage to be on a Macintosh discussion list. Users can tell each other which models are gems, and which are garbage.

Personally, I have some rules of thumb that I use when I recommend a printer to someone. I warn them that Epson is known for chipping their printers so that you can't used third party consumables. (There is a major lawsuit going on over this right now.) Epson makes the best professional level inkjet printers, but their consumer level inkjet printer tend to clog more than any other brand. That HP has been known for poor Mac support. I recommend Canon inkjets, but only those with the five cartridge system, and for which high quality third party consumables are available. I recommend Brother laser printers, but only those that can take a toner cartridge rated for 8,000 pages or more (the printer doesn't have to come with a cartridge rated for that many pages, they just have to be an option.) These rules are all good starting points for choosing a printer.

 

[MacInWin]

Let me be clear about what I'm saying and not saying.

I'm not saying that everyone who purchases an HP printer has a negative experience. In fact, MANY HP owners have excellent experiences with HP's products.

What I'm saying is that far too many Macintosh users have negative experiences with their HP products. I hear about them all the time. And some of those experiences are things that should never be the case. A Mac user who calls in for support should NEVER be told that his or her problem is that they should be using a Windows computer. (Yes, I've heard from more than one Macintosh user that they were told this by HP support.) A printer manufacturer should NEVER abandon a printer that is only a few years old by refusing to offer any more driver updates. And HP should be embarrassed that they regularly come out with driver updates many months after every other manufacturer has.

My personal inclination is not to support companies that don't very diligently support the Macintosh. Especially when they have competitors out there who are doing better, and sometimes MUCH better. If you preferentially support companies that diligently support the Macintosh, other companies may just decide that they have to follow suit, and it will make things better for all of us.

Yep, I knew that, Randy. You, like everyone else, have experiences that color your decisions going forward. You had bad experiences with HP, I had bad experiences with Canon. So, you buy and recommend Canon, I buy HP. Not because of the diligence of their support for the Macintosh, or Apple in general, but for the quality I have seen in HP printers and the consistency with which they connect, stay connected and print as advertised, for me. Canon may be very enthusiastic about supporting Apple, but the one I bought was the worst printer with the worst support of any device I have ever owned. So, no more Canons for me. But that's a personal choice.

 

[krs]

The printer manufactures are kind of caught in a difficult spot. Users scream when they have to open a rear paper feeder, because that means that the printer can't be pushed all the way back to the back wall, and the printer takes up more desk space than they want it to.

I think my Epson has an acceptable solution.
The back feed tray flips out when one wants to use it.
So to have it accessible allt he time, the back of the printer has to be 2 1/2 inches from the wall.
Or, since the need to print on card stock is probably the exception, one can also have the printer against the wall normally and just pull the printer forward a bit when the back feed is required.

 

[krs]

This is why I keep harping on the topic of only purchasing from a source that has an excellent return policy, and only purchasing with a credit card which will come to your aid if the vendor refuses to honor that policy.

Good advice but it would not have helped me.
Since I don't print on card stock regularly, I came across this issue only weeks after I had bought the Brother - too late to return it.

 

[pm-r]

I think my Epson has an acceptable solution.
The back feed tray flips out when one wants to use it.

I wish more printer companies would do something similar with a lot of their models and it sounds like the Epsom designers we're actually thinking and taking their consumer's possible needs into consideration. Nice touch.

Most of my previous older Canon inkjet printers had a similar slot but unfortunately my latest Canon MX922 does not.

Canon recommendations: We do not recommend using paper outside of the 17 to 28 lb paper weight (other than Canon genuine papers) in the printer.

However, one consumer posted they had managed to print heavier stock:
"I just printed 20 invitations (10 sheets) on 65lb card stock (non-canon) with no issues at all. Given the thickness of the paper, I loaded each sheet individually so the process wasn't exactly speedy but the Mx922 handled it without a hitch. "

So I guess exceptions to the manufacturer's suggestions can always be tried, and not cause any damage to one's printer. But a proper access path would sure be appreciated by some of us that occasionally need it, and list the feature where one can see it!!! It might even help with the sale.




- Patrick
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[Randy B. Singer]

Yep, I knew that, Randy. You, like everyone else, have experiences that color your decisions going forward. You had bad experiences with HP, I had bad experiences with Canon. So, you buy and recommend Canon, I buy HP.

No. That's not it at all. If it were indeed the situation, I'd be recommending HP in addition to Canon and Brother. I get constant feedback from literally tens of thousands of Mac users, and from a huge number of Macintosh experts on other forums. (I don't have to lay out my entire CV again, do I?) When I make a recommendation, it is never from an n=1 perspective unless I say it is.

If I even mention HP on my user group list, a large number of users will chime in with quite a bit of vitriol with regard to HP. They all had HP printers that were about three years old, and more or less like new, that HP orphaned. As I said, I've heard from multiple users who were told by HP support that they simply needed to switch to a Windows computer (which was NOT AT ALL appreciated by these users.)

YOUR recommendations may be colored by your very limited experience with HP. Mine are colored by the experiences of many many Macintosh users and even a large number of Macintosh experts. (This has all been discussed on the Macintosh consultant's list at least a couple of times.)

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Good advice but it would not have helped me.
Since I don't print on card stock regularly, I came across this issue only weeks after I had bought the Brother - too late to return it.

Yes, it's very frustrating when you purchase something and you don't have the time to install it, or to install it and really put it through its paces, before it becomes too late to return it.

I've had that happen to me a number of times.

Most recently it happened to me with a pair of computer speakers that I purchased from Amazon. I got a couple of powered stereo speakers that looked like a knockoff of the very highly rated $269 AudioEngine speakers:

https://www.amazon.com/Audioengine-A2-Wireless-Bluetooth-Amplifier/dp/B07MYW4Q8S/ref=sr_1_3

But these speakers were only $70 (yet still pretty well rated):

https://www.amazon.com/Sanyun-Active-Bluetooth-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B08777GG4P/ref=sr_1_4

It took me a while to clear things off my desk and set them up. When I got them set up...they sounded like crap. No deep bass whatsoever, and the highs were rolled off. However, vocals were impressively clear.

I had other things going on, so I just left them connected and didn't get around to returning them. But, guess what happened? As they broke-in I started to realize that they were sounding much much better. Now, a couple of months later, they sound amazing! (It's not unusual for high-end speakers to need breaking-in, but this is the first time that I found it necessary with a "cheap" set of speakers.) So...I got lucky...this time.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

And speaking of specifications and models, I found it really annoying with Cannon and most other printer manufacturers was their lack of descriptions for what their particular model printers could do or the cartridges used etc. and what determined the particular model number. A comparison list would have been greatly appreciated.

Many years ago I worked in a car stereo store. And I learned why a company like Canon has so many models, with different features, and why they aren't terribly interested in clearly explaining the differences to potential customers.

The reason that they have so many models isn't so that you can find the exact model with the exact features that you want. They have so many different models because they want to have a different model for different retail channels (e.g. discount stores, computer stores, online stores, etc.). That way all of their different retailers aren't competing directly with each other.

If one retailer discounts, and another doesn't, the latter retailer can say "Well, they aren't selling the same model. Our model is different/better." Also, if all of a company's various retailers aren't directly competing against each other, there is little to no incentive for any of their retailers to discount what they are selling heavily. All of their retailers make more money.

When I was selling car stereos, Sony almost destroyed the entire car stereo market for themselves. They gave the same exact models to any and all of their retail channel partners. This caused all retailers to discount Sony car stereos deeply to compete with each other. As a result, no one was making money selling Sony car stereos. Eventually, because of this, no one wanted to carry Sony's car stereo stuff at all anymore. It took Sony years to come back in the car stereo market.

I once was looking to purchase a Panasonic vacuum cleaner. So I wrote to them asking for model information. I think that they mistakenly confused me with a distributor or a retailer. They sent me back a list of all of their vacuum cleaner models. It was stunning! They had like over 100 different models, each one only a tiny bit different. Sometimes the difference was only cosmetic! That was how far they were willing to go to do what is known as "protect the market."