Help with picking a system, Macbook Pro vs. iMac

[AirBear]

Have you considered a 2018 Mac Mini?
It should be more than adequate to drive your existing displays and it's a heck of a lot cheaper than your other options.
May not be great for games - all depends which games you want to play.

As far as the Mini is concerned- are there any rumours about a newer version on the horizon?
That may be another option if you don't need to get a new Mac right now.

I have looked at Mac Mini's and searched the net for any rumors about any new Macs coming out soon. No solid info. A Mac Mini i5 with 512GB SSD and 8GB RAM is $1099 but is out of stock at BestBuy but available in 2 days from Apple. I prefer to get my Mac from BestBuy since they're just around the corner and I can get 1yr same as cash but it's not a big deal.

And unlike my late 2012 Mini the RAM is a major PITA to upgrade, you have to pull the logic board out. The 2012 took me all of 5 minutes to upgrade RAM. I've have to take the 2018 to Experimax and let the pro do it. And probably void my warranty. Now the UHD 630 will support up to 3 monitors. Running 2 I could do:

5120x2880 at 60 Hz via Thunderbolt 3 and one display up to 4096x2160 at 60 Hz via HDMI 2.0. (Thanks to EveryMac.com for that info)

For about the same price as the basic 27" iMac I could get an i7 Mini with 16GB RAM and a 1TB SSD from Apple ($1699) with about 10 days for delivery.

I need to decide if I'll ever want to use the new Mac for any gaming other than simple card games, pinball, etc which I'm playing now on the 2012 Mini. If I don't then the Mini would work and the i7 version has nicer specs than the iMac. 16GB of RAM should be enough.

So the Mini would be $100 cheaper than the basic iMac, give me a 1TB SSD vs. 1TB Fusion and 8GB more RAM (worth ~$40) and an i7 vs. i5 CPU.

Again using Geekbench numbers off of everymac's comparison page the i7 Mini has a significant advantage over the base 27" iMac. It's definitely something to think about and would be easy to switch out.

You guys think this is bad you should see me when I car shop..........

 

[krs]

Couple of comments:
1. I would very much pick a 1 TB SSD over a 1 TB Fusion drive
2. I just watched a video showing how to upgrade the RAM on the 2018 Mini - I'm actually surprised Apple decided to make it that cumbersome.
On the Mini I have one just removes the bottom plate and the RAM is right there. But that would be too easy and nobody would buy the RAM upgrades from Apple.
In any case, the 9-to-5 guy said it took about 30 minutes first time, with some practice it would take 15 to 20 minutes, so Experimax can't charge thaaaat much to do it - maybe less than you think and they may also be able to get the RAM at a better deal than you can - plus they may give you a bit of a credit for the RAM they replaced. Not sure about any potential warranty issues, that is something to check into.

Finally, I would start a search on refurb.me to notify me if a 2018 Mini with 16 GB of RAM shows up.

 

[ferrarr]

The 2018 Mini will also accept external graphics processors as well.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I have looked at Mac Mini's and searched the net for any rumors about any new Macs coming out soon. No solid info. A Mac Mini i5 with 512GB SSD and 8GB RAM is $1099 but is out of stock at BestBuy but available in 2 days from Apple. I prefer to get my Mac from BestBuy since they're just around the corner and I can get 1yr same as cash but it's not a big deal.

I use Best Buy myself for the same reasons, but my iMac I wound up getting through Apple because I couldn't get it in the configuration I wanted through Best Buy (1 TB SSD). They offer 1.5 year same-as-cash financing, so that is still an option.

I need to decide if I'll ever want to use the new Mac for any gaming other than simple card games, pinball, etc which I'm playing now on the 2012 Mini. If I don't then the Mini would work and the i7 version has nicer specs than the iMac. 16GB of RAM should be enough.

Go big or go home. Seriously, if you decide now to blow off buying something suitable for gaming, then if in a year or so something comes out that you really want to dive into and you can't, you are going to HATE yourself.

 

[krs]

.............if you decide now to blow off buying something suitable for gaming, then if in a year or so something comes out that you really want to dive into and you can't, you are going to HATE yourself.

Well.....or sell what you bought and buy the new Mac.

Mac's retain their resell value much better than Windows PC's

 

[AirBear]

For gaming I always have my Win10 desktop, it has an i7 CPU and NVidia 2080GPU and I've got a VR headset for it. Used the VR with Elite Dangerous and IL-2 Sturmovik. It does need a clean install of Win10 when I get around to that. I also have the gaming laptop, and a older i7 desktop with NVidia 970 put away in the closet. So I'm covered for gaming. The desk I moved the Win10 rig to isn't nearly as comfy as my main desk thou, that's the only reason I might do some gaming on the Mac.

I did own a 2014 iMac with i7 and NVidia GPU. I bootcamped into Win7 for gaming. After a year I realized I was spending 90% of my time in Windows so sold the iMac to my brother and got a Windows gaming rig. Being retired for 3 years now I played games 10-12 hours per day and just burned out on them. But you never know when some new game will get me hooked.

I'm leaning towards the Mac Mini, thanks to the poster who mentioned that because I had just about eliminated it. The SSD vs. Hybrid is a biggie. And the shared video can drive my monitors at max res and I could bring my 32" ultra-wide monitor back over to this desk. I paid almost a thousand bucks for that monitor so it'd be nice to use it. Right now it's hooked up to the Win10 rig but the only times I turned that system on were to finish tax returns (didn't want to pay for Mac version) and to hook up the webcam I bought that won't work with a Mac. One small disadvantage with the Mini is no built in webcam, I had a hard time finding Mac Compatible webcams that were in stock.

Ferrarr is correct about the mini accepting an external GPU, in fact Apple has their own "Blackmagic" eGPU ($700). For $300 Razer has a powered case I could put my NVidia 2080 into.

The stimulus direct deposits should start showing up this week, if Apple is smart they'll run a sale. With the Apple stores closed that has to hurt their revenue stream.

If anyone sees any of my assumptions that are wrong please correct me. I'm impressed with how much help I've gotten from this forum.

 

[krs]

The way I see it, the Mini doesn't lend itself to include an integrated webcam.

Webcams tend to be at the top centre of the MacBook or iMac screen.

I bought a Logitech Webcam for my Mini - some discussion here: https://www.mac-forums.com/forums/o...mini-recommendations.html?352396=#post1829835

Biggest annoyance were the directions, see post #8.
For the Mac this unit is just plug and play - it doesn't look very pretty but it works well.
I just attach it to the monitor when I want to actually use it.

 

[pigoo3]

I'm leaning towards the Mac Mini, thanks to the poster who mentioned that because I had just about eliminated it.

If you're leaning towards the Mac-Mini...wanted to make sure you're aware that the CPU performance of the entry level Mac-Mini is significantly less than the iMac and MacBook Pro choices you were considering earlier. CPU performance is not terrible...but a good bit less.

The mid-model 2018 Mac-Mini is much closer to the iMac & MacBook Pro you were considering...maybe still about 10% less. The top end Mac-Mini is probably about 10% better CPU than the iMac and MacBook Pro.

Be very very careful purchasing a Mac-Mini. In my opinion Mac-Mini's are not the best "bang for your buck" Apple computer. Once you start purchasing a higher end model (beyond entry level)...upgrading RAM...upgrading internal storage...and in this case maybe purchasing an external GPU...the total price-tag really adds up.

To me...the best bang for your buck Apple computer are the iMac's...and the 27" iMac's are really awesome with that big included display!

The SSD vs. Hybrid is a biggie.

If you're leaning towards the SSD upgrade...if it were me & wanted to save some $$$...I wouldn't necessarily feel like I need to replace a 1TB Fusion drive with a 1TB SSD. Could save some $$$ and get a 512gig SSD.

But if you go for the mid-level Mini...it comes already configured with a 512gig SSD.

- Nick

 

[AirBear]

The way I see it, the Mini doesn't lend itself to include an integrated webcam.

Webcams tend to be at the top centre of the MacBook or iMac screen.

I bought a Logitech Webcam for my Mini - some discussion here: https://www.mac-forums.com/forums/o...mini-recommendations.html?352396=#post1829835

Biggest annoyance were the directions, see post #8.
For the Mac this unit is just plug and play - it doesn't look very pretty but it works well.
I just attach it to the monitor when I want to actually use it.

Again, thanks very much for sending me to that post. I was about to order the Logitech C920S from BestBuy when I decided to try what krs did. I simply moved my $25 webcam back to the Mac Mini. No luck with Facetime. So I tried Quicktime>record movie. Presto, I now have a functioning Webcam. Installed Skype and it also works with that. Waiting for a family member on Facebook messenger to test video chat with. BTW, the Logitech C290S is about the only webcam I've seen still in stock at BestBuy or anywhere else. $69.99 delivery in 4 days. But I'm good with this cheap webcam for now, don't really need Facetime.

 

[AirBear]

If you're leaning towards the Mac-Mini...wanted to make sure you're aware that the CPU performance of the entry level Mac-Mini is significantly less than the iMac and MacBook Pro choices you were considering earlier. CPU performance is not terrible...but a good bit less.

The mid-model 2018 Mac-Mini is much closer to the iMac & MacBook Pro you were considering...maybe still about 10% less. The top end Mac-Mini is probably about 10% better CPU than the iMac and MacBook Pro.

Be very very careful purchasing a Mac-Mini. In my opinion Mac-Mini's are not the best "bang for your buck" Apple computer. Once you start purchasing a higher end model (beyond entry level)...upgrading RAM...upgrading internal storage...and in this case maybe purchasing an external GPU...the total price-tag really adds up.

To me...the best bang for your buck Apple computer are the iMac's...and the 27" iMac's are really awesome with that big included display!



If you're leaning towards the SSD upgrade...if it were me & wanted to save some $$$...I wouldn't necessarily feel like I need to replace a 1TB Fusion drive with a 1TB SSD. Could save some $$$ and get a 512gig SSD.

But if you go for the mid-level Mini...it comes already configured with a 512gig SSD.

- Nick

If you can believe the benchmarks on the comparison I did on everymac the i7 Mini I spec'd is 20-30% faster than the base model 27" iMac with i5 @3.0Ghz. iMac is $1799, Mini with i7, 16GB, 1TB SSD is $1699 from Apple. I could get by with a 512GB SSD, I'm only using 125GB right now but bigger is better. Mini RAM is a PITA to upgrade but 16GB should be plenty. For gaming, the base 27" iMac only has 4GB in it's GPU. I'd really need to upgrade to the 3.7Ghz iMac that has the Radeon 580X with 8GB. And the 580X is only comparable with a Nvidia 2060 to 2070. Suitable for most games at medium settings, but then very few of the games I'm familiar with have been ported over to the Mac.

Monitor: Yes, the 5k monitor would be nice. But I have the 32" ultra wide and the older 28" 4K that the 2018 Mini would be able to run at max res.

EDIT: I checked my purchase history and the monitor is actually 34": Samsung CF791 - 34" LED Curved QHD FreeSync Monitor - Gray. And I bought it for $911 less than 3 years ago, I thought it had been longer.

I'll try to attach a screenshot of the comparisons between the base model iMac and i7 Mac Mini.

 

[pigoo3]

iMac is $1799, Mini with i7, 16GB, 1TB SSD is $1699 from Apple.

Personally I think this is would be a bad purchase decision:

- Not factoring in the value of the iMac's built-in 27" display. When Apple was still selling the Apple 27" external Thunderbolt display...it cost around $1000 by itself.
- Not factoring in the fact that the iMac comes with dual GPU's (integrated & dedicated)...where as the Mac-Mini only comes with the "less powerful" integrated only GPU.
- If you're thinking about adding a $700 external GPU to use with the mini...got to factor that into the cost of the Mini as well.
- You can use the 32" monitor you own as an external monitor for the 27" iMac...then you'ld have a 27" + 34" dual montitor setup.
- Builtin webcam & MUCH better sound system with the iMac.

Don't let "repurposing" that 34" display you currently own drive this purchase decision. Firstly it's not worth anywhere near the $911 you paid for it 3 years ago (prices are always dropping)...and...this 34" display can be used with a new iMac, a MacBook Pro, or a Mac-Mini. Thus it's repurposability is a "common denominator" with all three computer models discussed in this thread.

Also going with the top end model Mac-Mini makes things even worse...since going with the top-end model of any Apple computer model always suffers from the law of diminishing returns (you're paying a lot more & not really getting much more incrementally).

I think I've said all I can say about this purchase (my lips are sealed now). You know your computer needs & budget way better than me. I'm sure you will make the right decision that works best for you.

- Nick

 

[AirBear]

It hadn't occurred to me that the iMac could be used as a 2nd monitor. I guess there's no reason it has to be sitting right in front of you. Maybe webcam, but I now have one that works and can be clipped onto a monitor. My 28" 4K is probably 10 years old so it would be a good fit for my mostly inactive Win10 rig. Run the 34" as main monitor and iMac as 2nd.

Price isn't that big of a deal, I worked a retirement job last summer and put away quite a bit of "me" money (don't have to "negotiate" with the wife over). But I do love a good sale so I'll watch the ads for a few more days. The Mac Mini does have better benchmarks but lacks in other areas as mentioned. My main goal is to get a machine that'll meet my needs for a long time. My brother is still using the iMac I sold him in 2015.

Those external GPU gizmos are nice in theory but I wonder how they'd work in practice with games.

 

[krs]

It hadn't occurred to me that the iMac could be used as a 2nd monitor.

I think there is some misunderstanding - the iMac screen cannot be used a stand-alone monitor like the two monitors you have already.

You can connect the monitor you have to the iMac and make that a second monitor, but you cannot use the iMac screen by itself.
I have seen many people try that. The computer portion of their iMac bit the dust, they are left with a very nice screen but there is no way to use that screen with another computer.

 

[ferrarr]

I think there is some misunderstanding - the iMac screen cannot be used a stand-alone monitor like the two monitors you have already.

You can connect the monitor you have to the iMac and make that a second monitor, but you cannot use the iMac screen by itself.
I have seen many people try that. The computer portion of their iMac bit the dust, they are left with a very nice screen but there is no way to use that screen with another computer.

No, I think they just want to use their 42” monitor as the main screen, and the iMac as a second display, which is possible.


Sent from my iPad using Mac-Forums

 

[krs]

No, I think they just want to use their 42” monitor as the main screen, and the iMac as a second display, which is possible.

Yes, when I read AirBear's reply again, that's probably what he wanted to do - my misunderstanding

However, would the resolutions and aspect ratios of the screens have to match somehow?

I ran into an interesting issue just a couple of weeks ago - wanted to connect an external monitor to a 2017 MacBook Air to get a bigger screen to watch a movie.
Couldn't bring an image up on the external no matter what I tried with the display settings on the MacBook Air.
The MBa detected the external monitor but I could not get an image to show on it. I finally gave up and we watched the movie on the 13-inch MBa screen.

After the movie was done I decided to connect the monitor again to see if I could figure out why it didn't work, but then the image on the monitor came up just fine.
What seems to have happened was that the movie had such an extreme wide-screen aspect ratio - on the MBa it played with big black bars top and bottom -that the monitor somehow couldn't handle it and all I got wasa blank screen, not even some distorted image which would have provided a clue of what was wrong.

I also sometimes run into similar problems when hooking up a projector where aspect ratios and resolution don't match.

 

[chscag]

What seems to have happened was that the movie had such an extreme wide-screen aspect ratio - on the MBa it played with big black bars top and bottom -that the monitor somehow couldn't handle it and all I got wasa blank screen, not even some distorted image which would have provided a clue of what was wrong.

Most late model TV sets with HDMI/DVI input connections have built in settings via a menu to change the aspect ratio and therefore can compensate for any black bars that obstruct viewing. However, it's not always convenient to attach your Mac to a TV set to watch a movie.

 

[AirBear]

No, I think they just want to use their 42” monitor as the main screen, and the iMac as a second display, which is possible.


Sent from my iPad using Mac-Forums

Correct, in this config I'd have the iMac on the left with Thunderbolt 3 cable to DV or HDMI hooked to the 34" Samsung sitting straight in front of me. Basically I'd be trading the old 28" 4k for a 27" 5K as the left hand monitor. And other than the built in webcam is there any issue with that? I'm running the 4k in front of me right now and the Lenovo 23" on the left. They have different max res but the 2012 Mini can only support 1600x900 under "scaled" in display settings. Both offer 1080p. I just run them in "default for display" and that works fine.

 

[cwa107]

Personally I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a MacBook Pro... or really any Apple notebook at this point. Apple has taken to soldering its SSDs to the motherboard. SSDs being a wear item, will need to be replaced, particularly if you do a lot of writes of large quantities of data, exceeding the tolerances of the wear-leveling algorithm. This gives the machine a very finite lifespan. Though you may be able to replace the system board, it won't be cost effective to do so and beyond that, with Apple's hardware locks that effectively force any service to be done by an AASP, you can't just have it repaired when something fails.

Simply put, these machines are deliberately hobbled and not worth anywhere near the premium Apple commands. That was not always the case, but it certainly is now. This is why I chose the cheapest option when I had to replace my much-loved 2011 15" MBP. If I had to buy a new notebook, I was giving Apple the least amount of money possible.

If you intend to keep the machine for the long run, the iMac is far more serviceable and should prove more reliable since the cooling system isn't quite as compromised in the name of thinness. Just my $0.02.

 

[AirBear]

Personally I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a MacBook Pro... or really any Apple notebook at this point. Apple has taken to soldering its SSDs to the motherboard. SSDs being a wear item, will need to be replaced, particularly if you do a lot of writes of large quantities of data, exceeding the tolerances of the wear-leveling algorithm. This gives the machine a very finite lifespan. Though you may be able to replace the system board, it won't be cost effective to do so and beyond that, with Apple's hardware locks that effectively force any service to be done by an AASP, you can't just have it repaired when something fails.

Simply put, these machines are deliberately hobbled and not worth anywhere near the premium Apple commands. That was not always the case, but it certainly is now. This is why I chose the cheapest option when I had to replace my much-loved 2011 15" MBP. If I had to buy a new notebook, I was giving Apple the least amount of money possible.

If you intend to keep the machine for the long run, the iMac is far more serviceable and should prove more reliable since the cooling system isn't quite as compromised in the name of thinness. Just my $0.02.

After the discussion here I've pretty much decided to get the iMac. Some good points were made about the value of the 27" 5k monitor. The i7 Mini might have better CPU specs but a Ferrari engine put into a Ford Pinto would have good specs until you tried to do real world stuff with it. The separate video GPU should keep the CPU from being GPU limited. I should have known that, I've built enough gaming rigs in the last 25 years.

I'm leaning towards spending the extra $500 and getting the 3.7Ghz i5 with 580X GPU/8GB and 2TB Fusion Drive. Hate to spend the extra but I want this system to last and keep my options open. After the 1yr warranty is up if I'm not happy with the Hybrid Drive I can always have Experimax upgrade it to a SSD. Watched a video on how to do that and it's above my comfort level. The large primary drive gives me plenty of room if I decided to bootcamp into Windows in order to access the few apps I can't get for the Mac. Still hoping for BestBuy to have a sale on iMac's but they do have the 30 day price guarantee. I just used it earlier today for a $329 iPad I bought for my stepdaughter on April 6th, it went on sale yesterday for $299. Noontime chat with BB customer service took less than 10min to get the $30 refunded.

One more Mac noob question, my 34" monitor has both HDMI and DisplayPort. Should I get Thunderbolt3 (USB-C) to HDMI or DP or does it matter?

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Personally I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a MacBook Pro... or really any Apple notebook at this point. Apple has taken to soldering its SSDs to the motherboard. SSDs being a wear item, will need to be replaced, particularly if you do a lot of writes of large quantities of data, exceeding the tolerances of the wear-leveling algorithm. This gives the machine a very finite lifespan. Though you may be able to replace the system board, it won't be cost effective to do so and beyond that, with Apple's hardware locks that effectively force any service to be done by an AASP, you can't just have it repaired when something fails.

Simply put, these machines are deliberately hobbled and not worth anywhere near the premium Apple commands. That was not always the case, but it certainly is now. This is why I chose the cheapest option when I had to replace my much-loved 2011 15" MBP. If I had to buy a new notebook, I was giving Apple the least amount of money possible.

If you intend to keep the machine for the long run, the iMac is far more serviceable and should prove more reliable since the cooling system isn't quite as compromised in the name of thinness. Just my $0.02.

I wasn't aware they were soldering in the SSDs now in the notebooks... that is disappointing. If one wanted to ensure long-term viability, would it be in one's best interests to go large on the capacity for greater wear leveling? I currently have the 2019 MBA, but dislike the keyboard enough that I am strongly considering flipping it and getting the new model. The base model at 256 GB is more than adequate for my needs, but for $300 more, I'd double that capacity and get a faster CPU.