Backward compatibility with a newer machine?

[hempomatic]

For the better part of 20 years, I loved my Mac. iTunes ran flawlessly, Photos the same. Those are ultimately the only two programs I use regularly. My music library is now a disaster, around 30% of my songs are gone along with 95% of the artwork. For 15 years, everything ran flawlessly. Somewhere between Yosemite and High Sierra, the wheels began to come off. The same with iPhotos when it became Photos. There are now thousands of photos that are a green screen even though if I click on info, they show everything EXCEPT the actual pictures. For the record, I've tried opening those pictures in other editing programs but they can not be opened. Catalina was the total death knell to both of these programs for me. I have absolutely no concept of how this two separate hard drive things works any more, or what the heck the container does. Also, I can't get Time Machine to work any more when it had been trouble free for a decade or more.

Here is my question, Is it POSSIBLE to slash and burn EVERYTHING on this hard drive and start from scratch with an older OS? I'm not asking. if it's advised, I'm simply asking if it's possible because frankly, it has become an exercise in total frustration and using my computer is no longer fun, it has become a total drag. Nothing ever seems to work like I expect it to. I'd rather not start with a 8 or 9 year old computer because of any inherent reliability issues, but if that's the only way to accomplish it, I'm willing to pick up 2 older machines so I can have a spare machine, potentially mirroring them.

Just to beat a dead horse, there is not a single advance or upgrade in the past 5 years or more that I have ever used, just a plethora of programs integrated into the OS that I have no interest in.

 

[MacInWin]

You can do that, but I don't think it will get your problems solved unless you have a backup of that working Yosemite system.

For some help: Green screen, as you called it, in Photos means that you did not copy the images into the Photos database when you imported them, but left the file on the drive and now Photos can't find it where you said it was when you imported it. If you have the files, you can reimport them and this time turn on the copy into the database in Photos preferences (Or iPhoto preferences, if you go back to that).

Music is probably similar, but I'm not a big Music user. Maybe someone else can assist. I do know that artwork can be retrieved through the Internet. And that the option to copy into the Music database and to get artwork is there as well.

The biggest problem with going back that far is that the browsers of that day are going to struggle with the Internet of today. You may be able to get a working browser from a third party, if they have archived old versions.

Frankly, I think you might try tackling the issues rather than going back. But that's just one man's opinion.

And as for the Container/Volume thing, the average user has no need to even see that it is there. Apple tried to make it easy by logically merging the two Volumes in Finder, so just stick to the Finder interface and the machinery underneath is of no consequence.

 

[Slydude]

You're probably right about what's happening with Music. That's the first thing I would check anyway. If iTunes/Music preferences have not been set to copy imported items into the Music folder, all sorts of weird behavior start happening if the source files are no longer where they were. The same solution you propose for Photos should solve the Music problem.

 

[hempomatic]

Jake,
We're talking more than 20,000 songs, more than 2000 albums. That's a LOT of time on the internet and here in the mountains of North Carolina, even though technically I have 200 meg cable internet, I'm happy with anything close to DSL speeds. Much of the music is backed up on Time Machine which doesn't work either with this computer. Plus, in many cases, when the music was uploaded to Music, the program disassembled the albums and shows each song as a separate album.

I've spent weeks trying to tackle the issues, to varying degrees of success. I'm simply tired of fighting with my computer.

As far as old browsers and modern Internet, true to a point I suppose, but I don't do much in the way of social media, VERY limited FB, no Instagram, no Twitter, or ANY other social media. I also use a Tor browser which seems to be compatible with everything and if it isn't compatible, I simply move on. The ONLY reason I even have email is because my banking, bill pay and a few other things I do on line require an email address as a means of confirming my identity.

I just want my music and my pictures back. Literally nothing else matters. I'm mentally exhausted having some sort of issue every time I turn my computer on and trying to resolve them. I've used Macs since a Power PC Macbook and never had issues like I've been having for the past year or two.......... ever.

So .......... the question remains, is it possible to slash and burn the data on this computer and install a fresh copy Yosemite or El Capitan, and how would I go about doing that?

 

[ferrarr]

Plus, in many cases, when the music was uploaded to Music, the program disassembled the albums and shows each song as a separate album.

^This is due to having "Keep Music Media folder organized" enabled in Music > Preferences > Files.

 

[vansmith]

I don't think downgrading is technically impossible as the Macs, as far as I know, are not as wedded to the current version as iOS/iPad OS devices are (where downgrading is difficult, if not impossible). The challenge you're going to have is getting a hold of older versions of macOS. Internet recovery always defaults to the most current version of macOS that your machine can run. Do you have a backup copy of the Yosemite/El Capitan installer?

 

[MacInWin]

Internet recovery always defaults to the most current version of macOS that your machine can run.

You can do an Internet recovery to the version the system shipped with, up to a point. From the Apple article here: How to reinstall macOS

• On an Intel-based Mac, if you use Shift-Option-Command-R during startup, you're offered the macOS that came with your Mac, or the closest version still available. If you use Option-Command-Rduring startup, in most cases you're offered the latest macOS that is compatible with your Mac. Otherwise you're offered the macOS that came with your Mac, or the closest version still available.
• If the Mac logic board was just replaced, you might be offered only the latest macOS that is compatible with your Mac. If you just erased your entire startup disk, you might be offered only the macOS that came with your Mac, or the closest version still available.

 

[MacInWin]

We're talking more than 20,000 songs, more than 2000 albums.

It still remains, that if you don't have a backup of the old system, you are going to have to reimport those songs, albums, artwork into anything you go back to. So the work is there, one way or the other.

 

[IWT]

@hempomatic

You have my deepest sympathy. Going round in circles and ending up no better off is frustrating in the extreme.

Having read the detailed advice from my senior colleagues, may I combine my thoughts and theirs by suggesting:

1. Don't even consider going back. Things are in a mess right now. Going back will only worsen that situation and make a successful outcome even less likely.

2. In iTunes, as already mentioned, use the Keyboard shortcut - Command plus comma - to enter iTunes Preferences. Now Click on Advanced (last option on the right in the menu bar). Tick "Keep iTunes Media folder organised". Also Tick " Copy Files to iTunes Media Folder when adding to library".

Above all these options, you will see: "iTunes Media folder location". Under this should be something like "/iTunes Music (original)". Note down what it says.

Now Click on "Change". That will take you to where the iTunes Media folder is located and also the pathway to its location. Note that down exactly. Then click on Cancel (bottom right). We don't want to change anything yet.

Once we know where iTunes "thinks" the iTunes Media folder is, it may be possible to (a) import the stray, scattered music on your Mac into that folder - and/or - (b) relocate it to an External Hard Drive (EHD) and possibly get your music all in one place (albums, songs, playlists included) such that you could either import the entire folder to a new Mac and locate it properly on that Mac; or keep it on the EHD and direct the new Mac to it.

3. Now to the Photos app. Open it - then using Command plus comma to enter Photos Preferences; then click on "General". At the top, look at "Library location". Next to it will be the exact location pathway to where it thinks that resides. Note this down. (You could click on Show in Finder, but that seems superfluous if the location pathway is shown anyway).

Lower down, look for "Importing:" and tick the box adjacent "Copy items to the photo library".

Then we can try to do the same with Photos as with iTunes.

***if any of my senior colleagues disagree with the above or want to alter any part of the suggestions, please do***

Ian

 

[hempomatic]

Well ....... the consensus seems to be that there is no backward compatibility. That's the biggest issue. Funny thing is, I had no issues with my Power PC running Cheetah. I wish I still had it sometimes.

Thanks for your help. I give up.

If I can find a pre-retina machine for sale that hasn't been updated past Mohave, I'll buy just but that and sell this machine.

 

[MacInWin]

the consensus seems to be that there is no backward compatibility

Nobody said that. What was said was that the effort of going backward is the same as going forward. You can go back, but unless, as I said, you have a backup from that older system, you are going to have to redo your music and pictures. So, either way, that is what you will be doing.

Good luck with it, seriously. It's going to be a lot of work.

 

[hempomatic]

Nobody said that. What was said was that the effort of going backward is the same as going forward. You can go back, but unless, as I said, you have a backup from that older system, you are going to have to redo your music and pictures. So, either way, that is what you will be doing.

Good luck with it, seriously. It's going to be a lot of work.

Jake,

Well, that's what I'm trying to understand. Apple said the earliest OS I can run is the one that was originally installed on this machine if I want to wipe the drive and start from scratch. That would be Catalina. If I could run Yosemite, I'd do that in a heartbeat, but they said no because of hardware incompatibility. I have zero interest in anything beyond Mojave.

 

[MacInWin]

Jake,

Well, that's what I'm trying to understand. Apple said the earliest OS I can run is the one that was originally installed on this machine if I want to wipe the drive and start from scratch. That would be Catalina. If I could run Yosemite, I'd do that in a heartbeat, but they said no because of hardware incompatibility. I have zero interest in anything beyond Mojave.

That is correct. You cannot go back further than what came with the machine originally. But the point is that even if you get a used machine that runs Mojave, you will still have to rebuild your music and pictures on that machine. And at the end you would have an old machine that may well have other hardware issues soon. So why not do the work to rebuild the music and pictures on the new system and have a newer set of hardware? That's all we are saying. It's your call. The work is going to be the same. The end result will be different.

And again, the only way to avoid the work is if you have a good backup of that old system. If you do, you could restore from that backup to an older used system, but you still have to add in all of the music and pictures that you have added since that backup was made. Again, a lot of work to end up with old hardware.

If it were me, I would invest the work in getting the new system working. Same labor, newer result.

But it's your call, as I said. Hope that helps explain the options a bit better.

 

[hempomatic]

That is correct. You cannot go back further than what came with the machine originally. But the point is that even if you get a used machine that runs Mojave, you will still have to rebuild your music and pictures on that machine. And at the end you would have an old machine that may well have other hardware issues soon. So why not do the work to rebuild the music and pictures on the new system and have a newer set of hardware? That's all we are saying. It's your call. The work is going to be the same. The end result will be different.

And again, the only way to avoid the work is if you have a good backup of that old system. If you do, you could restore from that backup to an older used system, but you still have to add in all of the music and pictures that you have added since that backup was made. Again, a lot of work to end up with old hardware.

If it were me, I would invest the work in getting the new system working. Same labor, newer result.

But it's your call, as I said. Hope that helps explain the options a bit better.

It does, and thanks for your input Jake. That puts be between a rock and a hard place however, since the back up with the majority of my music is on a 2 or 3 year old Time machine back-up which isn't even recognized by Catalina. It simply doesn't appear in Finder at all. On my sister's old MacBook Air running El Capitan, it's there however. The OLD computer that is self destructing lists Time Capsule, the new machine, also running Catalina does not. Finder preferences are identical. I'm able to boot to the old machine from an old bootable super duper back-up, but data transfer is painfully slow, literally hours to transfer a JPEG file so even if I COULD access the back-up (I can not, it's password protected), it would take months to transfer 200 gig of music. Then I have the pictures to transfer. There doesn't appear to be any path to simply restore the older computer using Time Machine.

I understand, this is all user error. The problem is, I have no idea what happened or how to resolve it.

Live and learn. It's water under the bridge. I give up. If I could simply restore the time machine to the new computer, that would solve everything. I thought that's what it was there for.

Going forward, I guess I'm going to have to come up with another plan to back up my stuff.

 

[MacInWin]

That puts be between a rock and a hard place however, since the back up with the majority of my music is on a 2 or 3 year old Time machine back-up which isn't even recognized by Catalina.

Lets work with that. What do you mean "isn't even recognized?" Does the drive show up in Disc Utility? How is it connected to the new machine? I have drives that are much older than that which are recognized and readable on my new M1 system, so unless there is something seriously wrong, they should be recognized.

 

[hempomatic]

Lets work with that. What do you mean "isn't even recognized?" Does the drive show up in Disc Utility? How is it connected to the new machine? I have drives that are much older than that which are recognized and readable on my new M1 system, so unless there is something seriously wrong, they should be recognized.

No, it does not show up in disk utility, or Finder on the newer machine. In the old machine, booting from an older Super Duper back-up it does. It is wireless using AirPort.

 

[MacInWin]

It is wireless using AirPort.

Are you saying it is an old Apple Time Capsule? (Basically a router with a wifi unit to allow devices to connect, plus an internal drive) If that is what you have and if it can be connected to your home network, which it would seem to be with the statement that your sister's computer can see it. Is your sister's machine in the same location as yours? Are you using the same router now? The way Time Capsules worked was that when a Mac connected to them by WiFI, they made the internal drive available as a networked drive. That's how you could back up to it. But if you have replaced the router, or you are not in WiFi range to be able to connect to it, you won't see the internal drive. Nothing to do with operating system, it's just networking. So tell us more about the physical setup.

 

[exncite]

I know there are more accomplished posters here, but I had the same issues. First of all, I learned that you can't go backwards from Catalina (or beyond). The only thing to do is wipe the computer clean, reinstall the OS you want from the App Store and then restore from your backup. Even though you were using an older OS, you should be able to run Mojave with no problem. It was the last OS before jumping to the newer 64 bit Catalina with Monterey now being the latest.
I suspect that the reason your TM doesn't work is because you're trying trying to restore from 32 bit OS to 64 bit OS. That terminology may not be right, but the difference between the 32 bit setup and the 64 bit setup is significant.
Your iTunes library is impressive. Mine is about 2000 which is setup into multiple playlists, but when I went from Mojave to Catalina, my library was FUBAR. I had to wipe my iMac clean and start from scratch. I still use Mojave and am hesitant to jump to Monterey because I get so much conflicting information about what works and what doesn't. I also know that one day I won't have any choice. One thing that I did was create a separate volume on my hard drive and installed Monterey. I can now play with it while still preserving everything on the original volume. I eventually signed up for Apple Music with the help of a great Senior Adviser with Apple Support, and was able to get all my music as I had it designed, into the Music App.

 

[cherokee2]

For the better part of 20 years, I loved my Mac. iTunes ran flawlessly, Photos the same. Those are ultimately the only two programs I use regularly. My music library is now a disaster, around 30% of my songs are gone along with 95% of the artwork. For 15 years, everything ran flawlessly. Somewhere between Yosemite and High Sierra, the wheels began to come off. The same with iPhotos when it became Photos. There are now thousands of photos that are a green screen even though if I click on info, they show everything EXCEPT the actual pictures. For the record, I've tried opening those pictures in other editing programs but they can not be opened. Catalina was the total death knell to both of these programs for me. I have absolutely no concept of how this two separate hard drive things works any more, or what the heck the container does. Also, I can't get Time Machine to work any more when it had been trouble free for a decade or more.

Here is my question, Is it POSSIBLE to slash and burn EVERYTHING on this hard drive and start from scratch with an older OS? I'm not asking. if it's advised, I'm simply asking if it's possible because frankly, it has become an exercise in total frustration and using my computer is no longer fun, it has become a total drag. Nothing ever seems to work like I expect it to. I'd rather not start with a 8 or 9 year old computer because of any inherent reliability issues, but if that's the only way to accomplish it, I'm willing to pick up 2 older machines so I can have a spare machine, potentially mirroring them.

Just to beat a dead horse, there is not a single advance or upgrade in the past 5 years or more that I have ever used, just a plethora of programs integrated into the OS that I have no interest in.

I agree and sympathize with you, I also used iPhoto and loved it but when Apple switched to Photo I had the same problems. I lost so many memories, I think Apple really xxx xxx with us.

 

[AndrewDun]

I feel for the OP. I enjoyed my old Mac Classic (one up on a Mac Plus) more than I have anything since, but have had to make some compromise with modernity. I now mainly use Snow Leopard on a 24" 2008 iMac, which means I can use most of my old PPC software. I have stuck with iPhoto. But for some internet purposes I have had to update to El Capitan, which I have on a separate partition. If I ever have to make it my main OS, I will have to make another effort with Photos, but at present it refuses to import metadata (?) (I mean all the text I have accompanying each photo, which is essential for searching.) So I, similarly, try hard not to update.
I do try always to have a spare computer in good order in case of hardware problems, and I have two or three TM back-ups, changed on monthly rotation, so I am fairly confident of not being put out of business by any hardware failure. I am not sure that an old machine has fewer years of reliability ahead than a newer one, and old machines are far cheaper. If they do what is needed, they seem to me to give a happier experience.
I wish the OP good luck, and am reassured by his 3 year old TM back-up which would solve his problems in an hour or two if he was to find an older iMac.