Alternatives to the no longer available Time Capsule?

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The time capsule does in fact have a USB port. I plugged in a relatively blank thumb drive . When I go to the TM set-up, It seems I can choose THAT drive as my back-up. Does that make sense? I assume then if I simply plug in a large drive, I can use TM like I used to and have an effective back up?
I don't have a TC, but from your description, that should work.

WD does not seem to be a fan favorite, what do you guys recommend? Even if it's relatively unreliable, if I'm only using it a few minutes every day, any drive should hold up reasonably well, yes?
It is not so much the hard use, although that will affect drives, as it is that a backup drive is running 24/7. I have had good luck with WD, Seagate and even Samsung for an SSD, but there are different opinions. You don't need an SSD, so a relatively inexpensive spinner will do. Also only need to be about twice the size of the data it is backing up, so don't overdo the drive size.

I think you have to use the TC menu to do any formatting or setup, but again, I don't have a TC. Maybe this Apple article will have good directions for you?


I did see in that guide that the port is USB-2, which is not really fast, but for backups should do. The first one will be long-running, thought.
 
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WD does not seem to be a fan favorite, what do you guys recommend? Even if it's relatively unreliable, if I'm only using it a few minutes every day, any drive should hold up reasonably well, yes?

I guess I am not part of the average crowd you refer to then as I have always usually bought Western Digital Black model HDDs over the years and all of them are still running.

Don't forget that frequent hard drive startup can lead to a shorter drive life, and neither do you need to purchase a "Mac specific" drive.

If you are really concerned, for the price of spinner USB hard drives you would no doubt be considering for your backup devices, you could always buy 2. One of each brand, and don't forget that Enterprise drives usually cost of a little bit more but have a longer warranty, and there is a reason they do so.

Some people prefer to purchase 4200 RPM hard drives, even in a two and a half inch format with the idea that they run cooler and longer. I have no idea how valid that is, but they tend to be a bit cheaper then the usually much faster 7200rpm drives.

Check out your local computer dealer and see what they have, and maybe on sale or point your browser to the Amazon US site and see if they have anything special to offer:

Good luck with your search and that is pretty nice that your TC has the USB port and will support a backup Drive.

If you need other help, I and many others are very satisfied shopping at OMC, Macsales.com and I'm sure they would be happy to advise you with your purchase if you need it.



- Patrick
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Rod


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I too have a couple of WD EHD's and really I've been lucky perhaps and never had a problem with them, my wife has one for her Time Machine backup.
These days I try to keep things simple, iCloud backup 50GB AU$1.49/month, more than enough for contacts, Keychain, calendars, iCloud Drive etc. A Transcend 1TB EHD (spinner) for Time machine and a Samsung 1TB external SSD for CCC.
I do not use iCloud Photo Library but I do use Photo Stream to ensure my photos are shared to my other devices.
My Music and photo library are backed up to the two WD EHD's I mentioned maybe twice a year.
That's it.
 
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Yes you can plug a drive into the TM and use it as your backup. I have had several WD drives that have gone bad. Two I got replaced by WD and the others were out of warrantee. None were over used - they just died. I use to recommend WD in years past but their quality has fallen off lately - IMO.

Just FYI - I pay $99/year for 2TB for a Google drive. I use it for backing up various files and also for sharing completed projects. For me, it works very well.

Lisa
 
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A 4TB drive seems like an excessive overkill and cost to backup ones 1TB boot drive. At least to me it does. ;-)

There are lots of smaller and cheaper drives available that could work just as well.

Bigger isn't necessarily better...


- Patrick
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I'm thinking ahead for a change LOL. Better more storage than I need (for a change), than not enough.
 
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Yes you can plug a drive into the TM and use it as your backup. I have had several WD drives that have gone bad. Two I got replaced by WD and the others were out of warrantee. None were over used - they just died. I use to recommend WD in years past but their quality has fallen off lately - IMO.

Just FYI - I pay $99/year for 2TB for a Google drive. I use it for backing up various files and also for sharing completed projects. For me, it works very well.

Lisa

I've had WD, Seagate, and Toshiba drives all go bad. The price is right for the WD drives, and I'll have redundancy. 2 4TB drives are only a few dollars more than 2TB of google, and I'll have the data forever, or at least until they self destruct.

I avoid google whenever possible, and I don't ever use the cloud for anything. They are ultimately a data mining company by definition. I know, .......... that sounds paranoid.
 
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Folks might find Mike Bombich's (of Carbon Copy Cloner fame) guidance on which external hard drives to purchase illuminating:

Choosing a backup drive | Carbon Copy Cloner | Bombich Software

Folks tend to conflate "internal" drive guidance with "external" drive guidance.

Personally, I wouldn't use an *external* Western Digital drive if you gave it to me for free. Contacts in the hard drive recovery industry report that WD's own branded external hard drives have a shockingly high failure rate. They are utter garbage.

However, WD makes both some of the very best, and some of the very worst *internal* rotating disk hard drives (RDHD's).

WD's *internal* Black series RDHD's are quite good.

Western Digital has started to offer their popular *internal* RDHD Red drives in 3 tiers - Red, Red Plus and Red Pro.

All of the current (plain) Reds are SMR (shingled magnetic recording) drives and in most opinions should be avoided.
https://www.techspot.com/news/84914-wd-seagate-toshiba-found-selling-slow-smr-drives.html
But the Red drives at the Plus level and higher are quite good.

Even the Western Digital 2TB-6TB WD Red *internal* NAS drives use shingled magnetic recording:
https://blocksandfiles.com/2020/04/14/wd-red-nas-drives-shingled-magnetic-recording/
 
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All of the current (plain) Reds are SMR (shingled magnetic recording) drives and in most opinions should be avoided.
I don't want to start an argument, but I did read the articles, Randy, and I think I would change that sentence to add "in RAID arrays" at the end, just to be more precise. That is what the articles complained about, that when you use one of these SMR drives in resilvering a busy RAID array (adding a new drive), it has a tendency to fail in the integration, probably because of the write speed being slow. None of the articles said that single SMR drive, by itself, in a backup scenario for a home user has major failures. Slow? Yes, but in a home use for backup, I think slow is acceptable. It's a backup, after all. I've been using slow drives for backups for years, it's a good use for them. I do agree that slow drives, in a highly volatile data environment, are a real problem, but for backups in a relatively stable home use case, they can work pretty well.

Now, a bootable clone, where I plan to run my system from the drive? That needs a good, speedy drive, probably an SSD instead of RDHD. But the use-case there is different.

Bombich also derides the SMR tech, but offers no proof or evidence of any real issues. His statement was:

We anticipate considerably worse performance for APFS in particular on these devices.

"Anticipating" performance issues is not "experiencing" them. His argument would have been more potent with some citation of actual issues. For example, if people were complaining to him about real-world issues, he could have, and should have, cited those issues. Or if he, himself, had actually tested CCC on SMR drives and had some statistics, that would have been more compelling. Even saying something like "I would tested and can say that a backup to an SMR drive would be X% slower than to a standard drive" would have been useful.

Is there any article with comparison figures for an SMR drive in a home use environment? Something that turns anticipation into experiencing? That would be handy to have as we make statements about drives.

That said, I have been avoiding WD recently, despite my previous success with them over the years, because they have started to use a proprietary interface from USB to whatever the are using for the drives themselves. That technology means that if a WD External fails, not because the drive itself has issues, but because of this proprietary interface, the drive cannot be moved to a new non-WD enclosure and then work to be recovered. Found that out the hard way when one died on me and when I opened the case saw the non-standard connections. Fortunately, I had another WD drive where the drive had failed but the interface seemed to work, so I made a Frankenstein of them and got my data off the drive and onto another. So, no more WD drives for me now.
 
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I think slow is acceptable. It's a backup, after all. I've been using slow drives for backups for years, it's a good use for them. I do agree that slow drives, in a highly volatile data environment, are a real problem, but for backups in a relatively stable home use case, they can work pretty well.

+1. Reliability rather than speed is definitely the better way to go for backup storage.

For different methods of magnetic data storage, some might be interested in this comparison:
WARNING: It's actually an add for Windows backup!!!

For more examples:



- Patrick
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I don't want to start an argument,
Are you sure?

Slow? Yes, but in a home use for backup, I think slow is acceptable.

I think that it's clear that SMR drives are significantly slower than CMR drives, and why, and in every application. They are also less reliable. There are countless sources that will corroborate this:

https://techwiser.com/smr-vs-cmr-drives-comparison/

https://techie-show.com/cmr-vs-smr-drives/

https://aesonlabs.ca/blogs/smr-or-cmr-hard-drive-which-one-is-better/

It's true that all of the benchmark tests that have tested SMR drives have concentrated on usage in a RAID array, mainly because the first SMR drives on the market were specifically marketed as being ideal for RAID usage. But all of those tests have found SMR drives to be "spectacularly bad" and that they couldn't really recommend them for "anyone". e.g.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hdJTwaTl8I

Western Digital has already lost a huge class action lawsuit over selling SMR drives and their inferior performance:

https://web.archive.org/web/2021112...ital-hard-drive-2-7m-class-action-settlement/

Everything being equal, if you have the choice of purchasing a slow drive or a fast drive, I think that any rational person would choose the fast drive. Given that there are price-competitive alternatives in the market for small to largish-size drives, I think that just about everyone would logically go for the fast, rather than the slow option.

I guess if you are on a budget, and you have a HUGE amount of data that you want to backup or archive to a single HUGE drive, an SMR drive is a reasonable choice given that it will be noticeably cheaper. I can't help but think that this choice might come to bite you later (as a case of being penny-wise but pound foolish) as a slow backup can prove to be beyond frustrating (and possibly worthless) when you have to do a restore, and that having a reliable and functional backup drive is just about imperative. This is a fascinating article in that regard:


So, yeah, you can make an argument that in some cases an SMR drive is okay. I personally would never make such an argument, because I care about the folks who might be reading this, and I think that just about anyone who purchased an SMR drive, especially when they didn't know what they were getting themselves into, would likely end up really miserable with that drive.
 
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I think that it's clear that SMR drives are significantly slower than CMR drives, and why, and in every application. They are also less reliable.

I'm quite surprised to read that the WD Black WD10SPSX - Hard drive - 1 TB - internal - 2.5-inch - SATA 6Gb/s - 7200 rpm - buffer: 64 MB are among the SMR drives.


And it seems that both Western Digital and Seagate have been doing a consumer bait-and-switch with various models and supplying SMR HDDs: :(
Western Digital and Seagate Are Shipping Slow SMR Drives Without Informing Customers: Reports [Updated]



- Patrick
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IWT


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The last few posts from Jake, Randy and Patrick raise worrying concerns - at least for me as I had absolutely no knowledge of CMR/SMR etc. I am grateful to you all for the Links and comments.

My demand on Platter EHDs is not high in terms of speed and I don't repeatedly delete data and add more. Almost always, I am adding data.

Nevertheless, I do use WD (My Passport for Mac) platter drives for my two TM backups and the same for backing up Libraries and the Documents folder (where I am only adding data each time - I don't delete previous versions).

And when a drive gets near capacity, I start the whole process on a new EHD. I admit that I am fortunate in not having the fiscal constraints that so many of our members do and my strategy, as above, may be why I haven't had a failed EHD in a very long time.

I use Samsung T7 SSD for CCC backups.

**So, gentlemen, what are your recommendations for the great majority of our members who, like me, haven't thought about or encountered CMR/SMR issues - when it comes to TM backups and general data storage (excluding CCC or SD! matters)?**

Ian
 
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**So, gentlemen, what are your recommendations for the great majority of our members who, like me, haven't thought about or encountered CMR/SMR issues - when it comes to TM backups and general data storage (excluding CCC or SD! matters)?

The articles that I cited say that you should be fine with a SMR drive if you are archiving movies or the like, and that you should probably avoid them for any other purpose. I'm not sure that I would recommend an SMR RDHD for any purpose, because they aren't just slower, they are less reliable.

If you are using an external hard drive for backing up, and you have the need to backup a largish amount of data, let's say in the 4TB range, the difference in price between a RDHD and an SSD is still significant, so you might want to go with a CMR RDHD.

If you are using an external hard drive as a backup in the under 4TB range, and especially if you are making bootable clones, you REALLY should read the TidBits article. A good, fast SSD is really worth the (nowadays not terribly big) extra expense over a RDHD:


The Bombich page that I cited makes specific recommendations for brands and models. In fact, it has a lot of really helpful information, from somebody that gets a ton of feedback about external drives.
 

IWT


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Bravo, Randy. Points taken. Much appreciated.

Ian
 
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Bravo, Randy. Points taken. Much appreciated.

I hope that you don't think that I was avoiding answering the question directly. If you were asking for specific recommendations, here are a couple of external drives (both SSD's) that folks have found to be both reasonably priced, fast, and reliable:

Oyen Digital Helix 1TB USB-C (USB 3.2 Gen2) NVMe Portable SSD, Up to 950 MB/s
$158
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YCQMQ4G/?th=1

Crucial X8 1TB Portable SSD – Up to 1050MB/s – USB 3.2 – External Solid State Drive, USB-C, USB-A – CT1000X8SSD9
$100
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YD5TK4F/?tag=macforums0e4-20&th=1

Forgive me if these links are for the U.S. version of Amazon. I don't know the links for other countries.
 
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I hope that you don't think that I was avoiding answering the question directly. If you were asking for specific recommendations, here are a couple of external drives (both SSD's) that folks have found to be both reasonably priced, fast, and reliable:

I would have thought and expected to see some 1TB HDDs listed for comparisons which are a fraction of the price of most SSDs, at least for backup useage.

This site has their preferences for "reasonably priced, fast, and reliable" HDDs:

All those listed are substantially cheaper for the 1TB HDD models.



- Patrick
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The articles that I cited say that you should be fine with a SMR drive if you are archiving movies or the like, and that you should probably avoid them for any other purpose. I'm not sure that I would recommend an SMR RDHD for any purpose, because they aren't just slower, they are less reliable.

It looks like I got duped not knowing about this SMR Drive scenario back in the spring of this year when I picked up a 2TB Seagate ST2000DM008 HDD for a secondary backup drive and I guess I should have known as it was at a price that was almost too good to be true.

It seems that it just happens to be one of the Seagate SMR HDD models:

I guess I didn't do my usual double-checking before purchasing... Stupid compulsion instead!!!

Maybe I should think about returning it as it hasn't even been formatted or put into use, even though I bought it in March 2022, if that is even possible.



- Patrick
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