New Gun Ban for 2007!

[fleurya]

lso you have little faith in your Military Soldiers that would attack there own people, it's never happened to date in any Civilised Democratic Society and it won't happen either.

That the military would attack its own people? Ever heard of the United States Civil War??

 

[dohidied]

Fast foward to 2007....

Let's just say the government decided to take away our inalienable rights. Lets see how much success those southern cowboys have with their assualt rifles vs all the advanced technology the military has today ie surface to air missles, precision guided munitions etc etc.... The U.S. military could dominate and put down any uprising with very little effort. Basically rendering the original purposes of the 2nd ammendment useless.

I think the hicks could put up a pretty good fight. Our military doesn't have the best record when it comes to fighting civilian forces. Look how we've gotten our arses handed to us in Iraq.

 

[BIG D 04]

Look up the history of a chap called Winston Churchill sometime, you may have heard of him. :bomb:

Amen-Moses

Although I'm a Brit I wouldn't exactly called having an Empire by Force a "Civilised Modern Society"...We have someone what changed (alot) our view on Colonies still apart of the United Kingdom, which is by will of the people and this has been seen numerous times with Islands having elections to vote on the Issue.

However I take your point on board, never say never, but there's bigger steps towards than going into a Big Brother or Dictatorship State than not allowing your Government to ban societies worst weapons.

So when you see so many deaths by Guns it's not surprising there are moves to get rid of the most dangerous weapons in society but I think the biggest push will come when you have another Dunblane or Columbine style atrocity

 

[TheCustomer99]

Being a libertarian, I support bringing government's power down to the lowest common denominator in just about everything. Note that I'm not supporting anarchy, I support enough government to keep a fairly smooth running society. I think that any gun ban is a violation of our rights and is utterly useless. You think a gun ban will work? How well have drug bans worked? Giving the government more authority over our lives is abhorrent, no matter how noble the intentions.

 

[BIG D 04]

Yea but some people would argue that we have socially accepted some forms of Drugs so we some what cautious where to draw the line. Therefore the Drugs aspect as turned more on Education rather than Punishment.

It comes all back to the main point, the government can try and shape things but if they aren't socially welcomed then it will fail, as people will use peaceful process in order to prevent it from happening.

 

[KoDorSean]

"guns don't kill people, people kill people" if this were true could we not just run up to someone and shout "bang bang" and they would fall over?

 

[Amen-Moses]

Although I'm a Brit I wouldn't exactly called having an Empire by Force a "Civilised Modern Society"...We have someone what changed (alot) our view on Colonies still apart of the United Kingdom, which is by will of the people and this has been seen numerous times with Islands having elections to vote on the Issue.

However I take your point on board, never say never, but there's bigger steps towards than going into a Big Brother or Dictatorship State than not allowing your Government to ban societies worst weapons.

So when you see so many deaths by Guns it's not surprising there are moves to get rid of the most dangerous weapons in society but I think the biggest push will come when you have another Dunblane or Columbine style atrocity

I'm a Brit too, I was of course referring to the inter war period when Churchill was responsible for turning the Army against civilians during the strikes of the early twenties. I always liked to bring that one up against the "Saddam used WMD against his own people" malarky because Churchill ordered the use of chemical weapons against civilians way before the US started selling them to every tin pot tyrant on the planet.

I think the big shocker that triggered the weapons bans in the UK was Hungerford, Dunblane just nailed the coffin lid shut.

I'm a fully trained marksman and in my 30 years of handling weapons I've never met anyone I'd consider sane enough to carry any type of firearm outside of a regulated range environment, and I include myself in that assessment!

Amen-Moses

 

[schweb]

The goal of those who seek to disarm the people is to enslave the people. That may be acceptable to the NE and California but here in Texas you're just asking for a revolution. You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hand.

Don't you think you're being a little over dramatic? Last time I checked, neither Britain nor Canada looked like a nation of slaves.

 

[MacJet]

Ok guys lets all be honest here....

There is talk about the how the 2nd amendments provides us with the right to bear arms to protect ourselves against the government incase they decide they want take away our god-given rights. That made a lot of sense 200+ years ago when the citizens could overtake a hostile government with muskets.

Fast foward to 2007....

Let's just say the government decided to take away our inalienable rights. Lets see how much success those southern cowboys have with their assualt rifles vs all the advanced technology the military has today ie surface to air missles, precision guided munitions etc etc.... The U.S. military could dominate and put down any uprising with very little effort. Basically rendering the original purposes of the 2nd ammendment useless.

In my opinion there is absolutely no reason why a civillian needs a weapon that is capable of firing 500+ rounds per minute.

We lost in Somalia. We are losing in Iraq. Afghanistan beat the Russians. I'm also pretty sure we lost Vietnam.

Roger Sherman, during House consideration of a militia bill (1790):

[C]onceived it to be the privilege of every citizen, and one of his most essential rights, to bear arms, and to resist every attack upon his liberty or property, by whomsoever made. The particular states, like private citizens, have a right to be armed, and to defend, by force of arms, their rights, when invaded.
14 Debates in the House of Representatives, ed. Linda Grand De Pauw. (Balt., Johns Hopkins Univ. Press, 1972), 92-3.

To say that the 2nd Amendment has no bearing today would be like saying that you no longer have the right to free speech (like here), the right to free assembly, or the right to the religion of your choice; because it has no bearing today. Or perhaps we turn the media into state run TV. We don't really need the free press do we? Can't we just trust the government. Perhaps just like N. Korea or China.

 

[MacJet]

"guns don't kill people, people kill people" if this were true could we not just run up to someone and shout "bang bang" and they would fall over?

Your're right. And cars are responsible for DUI's and hit-and-runs.

 

[Stretch]

Taking away guns is not the answer to gun related deaths, go back to the cars again. 1 out of 7,700 people are killed by cars, where 1 out of 366,000 are killed by firearms. Source.

We need better gun control, not removing guns from innocent people that use them for hunting or target practice.

 

[MacJet]

In 2002, the casue of death was:

Major Cardiocasular Disease 936,923 (ban McD's perhaps?)

Malignant Neoplasms 553,091

Chronic Lower Resp. Dis. 122,009

Diabetes Mellitus 69,301

Influenza and Phneumonia 65,313

Alzheimers 49,558

Motor Vehicle Accidents 43,354

Firearms 28,663 (includes gang warefare, self defense, and police shootings)

http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html

Accidental death by firearms killed 776. Medical/surgery complications killed 3,059. Drowning killed 3,842. Do we ban swimming now?

 

[MaDDoG]

We lost in Somalia. We are losing in Iraq. Afghanistan beat the Russians. I'm also pretty sure we lost Vietnam.

Roger Sherman, during House consideration of a militia bill (1790):

[C]onceived it to be the privilege of every citizen, and one of his most essential rights, to bear arms, and to resist every attack upon his liberty or property, by whomsoever made. The particular states, like private citizens, have a right to be armed, and to defend, by force of arms, their rights, when invaded.
14 Debates in the House of Representatives, ed. Linda Grand De Pauw. (Balt., Johns Hopkins Univ. Press, 1972), 92-3.

To say that the 2nd Amendment has no bearing today would be like saying that you no longer have the right to free speech (like here), the right to free assembly, or the right to the religion of your choice; because it has no bearing today. Or perhaps we turn the media into state run TV. We don't really need the free press do we? Can't we just trust the government. Perhaps just like N. Korea or China.

No one wins at war...

 

[BIG D 04]

Do we ban swimming now?

No, you start from the Top Down not Bottom Up...

The way I see it is that the Government are trying to get the most dangerous Guns out of the Public Domain. It's like they do with everything that could be hazourdous to the nation as a whole.

Also the right to "bear arms" seems a bit lose, can you get like Mobile Rocket Launchers because when the Government starts coming you will need something a little be more powerful than your Semi Automatic Shotgun....Have you considered purchasing a Ground to Air Missle or even a Nuclear Warhead? Although I suppose the waiting times on that would be a pain to say the least.

 

[dohidied]

In 2002, the casue of death was:

Major Cardiocasular Disease 936,923 (ban McD's perhaps?)

Malignant Neoplasms 553,091

Chronic Lower Resp. Dis. 122,009

Diabetes Mellitus 69,301

Influenza and Phneumonia 65,313

Alzheimers 49,558

Motor Vehicle Accidents 43,354

Firearms 28,663 (includes gang warefare, self defense, and police shootings)

http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html

Accidental death by firearms killed 776. Medical/surgery complications killed 3,059. Drowning killed 3,842. Do we ban swimming now?

Only 3000 people died in 9/11. We probably shouldn't bother doing anything about that either.

 

[BIG D 04]

Only 3000 people died in 9/11. We probably shouldn't bother doing anything about that either.

Yea but in heinsight you probably shouldn't off, reports show that the world is a more volatile place following the taken because of 9/11.

 

[dohidied]

Yea but in heinsight you probably shouldn't off, reports show that the world is a more volatile place following the taken because of 9/11.

Most of that's because we attacked Iraq, which I agree shouldn't have been done. I don't think going after Osama Bin Laden has created a lot of terrorists.

 

[Reel1]

Don't you think you're being a little over dramatic? Last time I checked, neither Britain nor Canada looked like a nation of slaves.

I would like to join in this conversation, but my "Master" wants me to wash the car, vacuum the carpet, wash dishes and on and on and on.....

 

[digital john]

We lost in Somalia. We are losing in Iraq. Afghanistan beat the Russians. I'm also pretty sure we lost Vietnam.

Roger Sherman, during House consideration of a militia bill (1790):

[C]onceived it to be the privilege of every citizen, and one of his most essential rights, to bear arms, and to resist every attack upon his liberty or property, by whomsoever made. The particular states, like private citizens, have a right to be armed, and to defend, by force of arms, their rights, when invaded.
14 Debates in the House of Representatives, ed. Linda Grand De Pauw. (Balt., Johns Hopkins Univ. Press, 1972), 92-3.

To say that the 2nd Amendment has no bearing today would be like saying that you no longer have the right to free speech (like here), the right to free assembly, or the right to the religion of your choice; because it has no bearing today. Or perhaps we turn the media into state run TV. We don't really need the free press do we? Can't we just trust the government. Perhaps just like N. Korea or China.

We are losing at Iraq? Thanks for filling me in on that secret. The reason why Somalia, Afghanistan, and other wars were lost were because of ignorance. Wars are not lost because the citizens outgunned the respected militaries, they are lost due to lack of planning, research, and ignorance.

Yes the "right to bear arms" has no use in this day in age in my opinion. That is nothing like taking away freedom of speech or religion. How many people do you know needed to use a firearm to prevent someone from depriving them of one of their liberties or property? I actually know 0.

You honestly sound like Terry Nichols and those other neo-nazi paramilitary extremists who are just waiting for the government to make a wrong move so they can get the war they dream about. Are you building a nuclear warhead in your parents basement that we should know about?

 

[MacJet]

We are losing at Iraq? Thanks for filling me in on that secret. The reason why Somalia, Afghanistan, and other wars were lost were because of ignorance. Wars are not lost because the citizens outgunned the respected militaries, they are lost due to lack of planning, research, and ignorance.

Yes the "right to bear arms" has no use in this day in age in my opinion. That is nothing like taking away freedom of speech or religion. How many people do you know needed to use a firearm to prevent someone from depriving them of one of their liberties or property? I actually know 0.

You honestly sound like Terry Nichols and those other neo-nazi paramilitary extremists who are just waiting for the government to make a wrong move so they can get the war they dream about. Are you building a nuclear warhead in your parents basement that we should know about?

Do you think the people of N. Korea or China would be starving and living under a tyrannical regime if they were armed and had a free press?

The belief that we have some how elevated ourselves beyond histories mistakes and that we are not subject to it's consequences is absurd. The U.S. is not the greatest power to ever inhabit this earth. The former Persian (Iran) and Roman empires are a more attractive target for "Greatest World Power" than the U.S. and both of those regimes failed. No nation will probably ever exceed the expanse and power of the British Kingdom. At one point in time the sun never sat on the British Crown. Even they lost a considerable amount of their empire.

I know of several instances of a firearm preventing a loss of property or life. My family has been in the jewelry business since 1950. A firearm has been deployed a few times in the last 57 years to prevent harm. Luckily one has yet to be discharged. I have been shot at while hunting my own property and returned fire. I once had to put a Glock 40SW in a guys face who was trying to break into my back door at an old apartment. Turned out the guy was high and thought that he was at his buddies place. Lucky for him I didn't shoot. Read the first few pages of any NRA magazine for further examples every month.

Look at BATF statistics in TX, FL, and OK where violent crime was drastically reduced after those states enacted concealed carry laws. Not one state that has enacted a concealed carry law has seen a rise in violent crime. They have all seen declines.

Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh were lunatics. They had a beef with the government and they took it out on civilians. That is not a revolution, that is terrorism. They also killed my cousin in that bombing. I'm from Oklahoma and I am intimately familiar with that event. But I also remind you that McVeigh carried out that attack with no gun. He used diesel fuel and ammonium nitrate. The September 11th attacks were carried out with mace and box cutter blades.

I am not a Timothy McVeigh. I am a former member of the United States Army were I served with distinction. I am also a card carrying member of the NRA, Quail Unlimited, and Pheasants Forever. I guarantee you that more people have crawled and dug through my past then you. I am also a pilot for an air carrier. I have had the FAA and the TSA dig through every detail of the last ten years of my life looking for something as small as a parking ticket. I also had the DOD dig through my life for a security clearance. I have also had the FBI and the state of Texas dig though my past before they issued my a concealed weapon permit. I am what you call "squeaky clean."

I swore to uphold the orders of the President and to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Right now our foreign enemy in al-Quada and our domestic enemy in Carolyn McCarty, D-N.Y.

I have no intention of fighting a war. I wish to live out the rest of my life in peace. However, if the situation ever warrants I will be willing and able to defend the Constitution of this great country.