DC beltway crash

[Brown Study]

Also, I think you're confusing profiling issues.

A vague description makes it easy to profile under the guise of legitimacy.

 

[Brown Study]

. . . .but if someone was running from the cops and hit my car and injured my wife or kid (or worse), he's going to need all those cops to pull me off of him.

But it wasn't "someone." It was a cop who killed two people and injured a bunch.

If a cop hit your car and killed or injured your wife because he was speeding, would you attack the cop? If not, why the double standard?

 

[eric]

no, if i could i would still get the guy who ran.

if, for some reason, the cop was excessively speeding without lights and driving erraticly for no reason and hit me, sure, i'd be outraged.

but this was an idiot, running from the law, to avoid what? a fine and some points on his license? unacceptable. i fully support a no tolerance policy that includes chasing these morons and jailing them.

 

[Brown Study]

but this was an idiot, running from the law, to avoid what? a fine and some points on his license? unacceptable.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree because I say that killing two people and injuring a dozen others for the sake of a possible fine and points on some jerk's licence is absolute insanity — whether the jerk escaped or not.

(And proof the phantom biker doesn't exist only in the cop's imagination would help.)

 

[eric]

so we should just let bikers pretty much whatever they want on the road because they have two wheels?

occasionally a few people may have to suffer for the rest of us to live like civilized people. unfortunately, there will sometimes be collateral damage as long as idiots continue to think they're better or more important than the rest of us and that laws don't apply to them. relaxing extremely basic but useful laws and procedures because of a few infrequent mishaps seems very backwards to me.

 

[Village Idiot]

The big problem is that the general public view of sport bikers is one of disdain, sterotyping anyone that rides that type of bike as a menace. Yes there a squids and yes they ride sport bikes, but that's only a small percentage of the population.

A girl from dcsportbikes.com died about 2 years ago riding to work. She was ran over on the belt way by a truck. Every year they do a memorial ride and gather money to be put into a charity fund. Most of the people I ride with will pull over on the side of the road an offer assitance to stranded motorist. People from the sportbike site consist of soldiers, paramedics, photographers, lazy bums, and everything in between. We just deal with the perception that since the type of recreation we choose that we are all hoodlums. There's a guy that rides track in about 70 years old. He's one of the healthiest and fastest people I could think of over 40.

A lot of this negativity towards our group is also shared by cops. Fortunately there are cops that ride / have ridden sport bikes, but there are also a lot of them that think that we are a menace to society since the only bikers they really deal with are the ones breaking the law. So when they're doing something like this, we'll get generally bad attitudes from the police since they think we're all bad.

 

[eric]

so going 115 in a 65 is responsible behavior that should not be viewed negatively?

honestly, at least half of the people i see in my area on motorized two wheel transport, sport bike or not are not good drivers. they follow too close, they often pass where they shouldn't, speed excessively, or perform any number of other boneheaded manuevers.

 

[Village Idiot]

so going 115 in a 65 is responsible behavior that should not be viewed negatively?

honestly, at least half of the people i see in my area on motorized two wheel transport, sport bike or not are not good drivers. they follow too close, they often pass where they shouldn't, speed excessively, or perform any number of other boneheaded manuevers.

115 in a 65 is not.

If you don't ride, your perception of following too close or passing when unsafe, or speeding excessively may be skewed.

Most bikes can stop in about half the time that it takes a car to stop and can accelerate almost twice as quick.

It's all about being responsible. There was a study done in Montana when it had no speed limit compared to when there was a posted limit. There were less fatal car crashes when there was no limit. Fast is only as fast as one perceives it and 70 mph (my state's speed limit) is a crawl when you know how fast you can go on one of these machines and do it safely. I try not to do more than 10mph over the limit.

And a lot of the times, the good riders are where you can't find them unless you go looking for them, be it the track or some back roads in the middle of no where. I know that's where I usually spend my weekends when I have time to ride.

 

[iKitten]

Most bikes can stop in about half the time that it takes a car to stop and can accelerate almost twice as quick.

Ha, and many car drivers already follow too closely! The perception of the "bad" rider is possibly worse than mine.

And a lot of the times, the good riders are where you can't find them unless you go looking for them, be it the track or some back roads in the middle of no where. I know that's where I usually spend my weekends when I have time to ride.

Too bad that isn't a requirement for biking before taking to the highway, similar to having a certain amount of flight hours before flying solo?! I'd feel less anxious when I see sport bikers take chances in traffic if I knew they had some type of training or at least enough experience to handle their maneuvers.

 

[Village Idiot]

Ha, and many car drivers already follow too closely! The perception of the "bad" rider is possibly worse than mine.

Too bad that isn't a requirement for biking before taking to the highway, similar to having a certain amount of flight hours before flying solo?! I'd feel less anxious when I see sport bikers take chances in traffic if I knew they had some type of training or at least enough experience to handle their maneuvers.

A graduated licensing system is what the States need. A lot of the people doing wheelies through traffic and stunting are people without a lot of experience that buy a sport bike for the look at me factor...

 

[MUDCRABS]

Well as I see it, the moral of the story is 'If you're looking to buy a bike, don't buy a black one...........at the moment);D

 

[TheCustomer99]

I believe that the moral of the story is that the police are never responsible for any accidents caused when they chase after speeders (if that's all the guy did), because they're the government, and we're not. Ridiculous? Yes. Pointless? Yes. Avoidable? Yes. Is it ever the Police Deptartment's fault? NO!

It is time to reform some of the rules about police pursuit in high speed chases. Will reform ever happen? NOPE.

 

[eric]

115 in a 65 is not.

If you don't ride, your perception of following too close or passing when unsafe, or speeding excessively may be skewed.

Most bikes can stop in about half the time that it takes a car to stop and can accelerate almost twice as quick.

eek! it's that kind of talk from people, in cars or on bikes that makes me nervous, and shows me the kind of mindset that should be kept off the road.

it's just like people who say, "i'm not going fast, i can be on my phone and everything will be perfectly fine." it's about coming too close to that edge and not leaving a buffer. whether it be concentration, tire grip, or talent.

i guess, feel free to ride however you want when you're alone on the road. that's up to you and whatever relatives may have to identify the body. but when you're sharing the road with others just keep in mind that you are no better than anyone else; your destination is not any more or less important than anyone else's. also there is a reason they call them accidents and there's also a reason they call them donorcycles.

 

[walmartconnect]

I believe that the moral of the story is that the police are never responsible for any accidents caused when they chase after speeders (if that's all the guy did), because they're the government, and we're not. Ridiculous? Yes. Pointless? Yes. Avoidable? Yes. Is it ever the Police Deptartment's fault? NO!

It is time to reform some of the rules about police pursuit in high speed chases. Will reform ever happen? NOPE.

One of the biggest fears in law enforcement is liability issues. Many chases are called off not because the cop can't keep up with the criminal, but that the cop is too afraid that an accident will occur.

Police can be sued if the crook gets into an accident because someone (even said criminal) can say "Well, the police officer was forcing the criminal to drive wrecklessly."

Perhaps the officer in this situation made a bad move by not backing off and should be disciplined accordingly. No one seems to notice or care, however, that another criminal is out on the streets, one that clearly has no regard for innocent lives around him.

However, as usual, blame the cop, blah blah blah.

If I were riding a bike through DC and was pulled over because of its color, I really wouldn't care; they're just doing there job.

 

[TheCustomer99]

No one seems to notice or care, however, that another criminal is out on the streets, one that clearly has no regard for innocent lives around him.

However, as usual, blame the cop, blah blah blah.

Well, as I said in parentheses in my other post, if it was nothing more than a traffic violation, then he is no real danger. If he committed a violent crime, then I have a little more respect for the cop and think he should have tracked this guy down. But from my experience with the cops in my town and the police I know personally at least, many police are on a power high and letting even a non-violent offender get away hurts their ego. I've never done anything worse than not wearing my seatbelt, but I have noticed that many police I've met do believe they are above the law and are occasionally more reckless because of it.

 

[Brown Study]

If you don't ride, your perception of following too close or passing when unsafe, or speeding excessively may be skewed.

Most bikes can stop in about half the time that it takes a car to stop and can accelerate almost twice as quick.

eek! it's that kind of talk from people, in cars or on bikes that makes me nervous, and shows me the kind of mindset that should be kept off the road.

it's just like people who say, "i'm not going fast, i can be on my phone and everything will be perfectly fine." it's about coming too close to that edge and not leaving a buffer. whether it be concentration, tire grip, or talent.

Those are facts, no more a mindset than saying a Porsche is faster and can stop more quickly than a Model-T. Few cars are quicker than even a moderately sized bike, and fewer yet can stop anywhere near as quickly. It's physics. To say that this is like claiming "I'm not going fast" or not leaving a buffer is wrong. Bike riders don't have tons of steel and six or eight airbags surrounding them. Too small a buffer is far more likely to be caused by a car behind a bike than a bike behind a car.

Most car-bike accidents are caused by cars; by bozos who don't check their blind spots, who open their doors without bothering to look first, by running red lights and stop signs, and from pure, unadulterated stupidity and by malice.

I was run off a city street by a co-worker driving his SUV while he was yakking on a cell. A pickup driver swerved toward me on purpose as he passed me on a four-lane highway and ran me into a ditch. He stopped, laughed and peeled off. A guy at a stop sign waited until I was 20 feet from the intersection, then slammed his accelerator to the floor — after we had made eye and he had watched me approach. This was when I rode a Honda 750 tourer. It was no Harley hog.

Bike riders are a couple of hundred percent more vulnerable than car drivers, and they know better than any car driver that defensive driving equals survival. Even biker gangs know this, which is why so few biker gang members are injured riding. They understand the physics involved as well — or better, if they had been in a crash — as Einstein would.

The general attitude — the mindset — of car drivers might be compared to that of the best-known prejudices born of ignorance and sometimes malice on the part of Windows users against Macs. And the beliefs are just as baseless, never examined because they are "common knowledge."

Far, far more jerks drive cars than ride bikes.

 

[MUDCRABS]

I believe that the moral of the story is that the police are never responsible for any accidents caused when they chase after speeders (if that's all the guy did), because they're the government, and we're not. Ridiculous? Yes. Pointless? Yes. Avoidable? Yes. Is it ever the Police Deptartment's fault? NO!

It is time to reform some of the rules about police pursuit in high speed chases. Will reform ever happen? NOPE.

Well here in OZ the police do terminate pursuits at high speed and 'Let them get away
Now that's real bright don't you think

"Hey there is a copper up my clacker what shall I do"
Mate
"just drive faster and they will call the chase off"

If that happened out your way you will be breeding boy racers in abundance ;D

 

[walmartconnect]

Just because someone's crime isn't a "violent" one doesn't mean that it shouldn't be overlooked. Someone that flies through traffic at 90mph may not have any ill intentions, but I guarantee that he/she can very easily ruin a family of four's lives without even wanting to.

What comes of saying "well, certain crimes aren't such a big deal. If person X does crime Y, I guess we can let it go until he/she does crime Z."

A crime needs to be met with consequence. Otherwise, the perpetrator will learn that he/she does not have to own up to their actions. If you disagree, urge your government representatives to change the law to make crime Y legal.

 

[eric]

Brown Study, while some of what you said may be true, you'll notice i often am including all idiots in my posts, regardless of number of wheels.

and i still insist that overconfidence is a killer.

 

[fleurya]

if it was nothing more than a traffic violation, then he is no real danger.

So all anybody violating a traffic law should do is speed away and they get away with it? Doesn't sound right to me. Cops have to pursue criminals or more criminal activity will happen. 99.9999% of the time, nothing happens, but mistakes do happen. We are all human behind the wheel, badge or not.

Maybe he was just trying to get the license plate number before breaking the pursuit and didn't get it before the accident. That's another reason for the vague description.

But from my experience with the cops in my town and the police I know personally at least, many police are on a power high and letting even a non-violent offender get away hurts their ego.

Funny, you complain about people generalizing negative traits on bikers, then you go and do it to cops! In the same sentence that you admit you only know a few cops and have limited knowledge of them, you claim many cops have an ego problem. Even if you only mean within the cops you know, you're still trying to put a generalization out there. If you admit you have very limited knowledge about the attitudes of police in general, you can't use it to strengthen your argument.