Apple "Spring Forward" Event

[Checco]

with a bluetooth keyboard

Of course you can be (more) productive with a keyboard involved, but I'm talking about a plain iPad. I considered exactly that before purchasing my MBA. I looked at various keyboard cases considering combined weight, resulting thickness, integration and iOS, which can be limiting in certain respects. In the end I opted for the MBA. The iPad specifically excludes a keyboard. In my view adding one defeats the purpose: it becomes a device with an identity crisis!

I stand by my comment, but will clarify - a plain iPad is not a productivity device.

I agree with this, but I would argue that the new MacBook is VERY desktop-class for what typical users have need of -- it's a million miles faster at nearly anything short of pro-level apps than my MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM and a higher-clocked processor, and of course its 2x speed flash storage (1.3GB per second read time, 630MB/sec writes) absolutely smokes my 1TB hard drive. I have an advantage on ports and storage, but on nothing else -- and this is compared to Apple's current "bottom of the line" Mac!

Where I think the problem is is that what you mean by "desktop class" and what most people mean by "desktop class" has changed, and there's a big schism there. Pros need tons of ports and massive amount of storage -- typical users do not, at least not any more. Hard-core gamers need super-powerful video cards, creative pros would need more RAM and other things than the MacBook offers -- but not most other people.

The kind of people who read this forum regularly used to be "the rest of us" from the Apple ads -- the people who sought out quality, the people who appreciated value, the people who rewarded good developers. That's not the "us" Apple is courting anymore (not that they want us to go away). They're courting the mobile generation, who have different needs as you correctly point out. They're the new "rest of us."

I'm all for the new MB, but it certainly isn't anything near a desktop class/pro machine. What I understand D-C to mean is the ability to handle most intensive tasks that one can throw at it. Not necessarily high-end gaming, but in today's terms: decent quad-core, 16GB RAM, dedicated graphics, etc.

Irrespective of what you call it, we're saying the same thing: it is able to fulfill the needs of many users out there. As a side note and comparison, lots of people use entry-level Windows notebooks with 2GB RAM, slooow hard disks and Celerons...and they get by. Obviously though, the MB is a tad more expensive, but will run rings around those.

However, there is no way that the MB can be compared to a D-C as I understand the definition. Bring on the fast SSD, but get crunching and the poor thing's dead. As an example, I tried to run a development VM on a 13" MBP with HDD...returned the thing for a quad-core 15", with HDD...ran rings around the 13". I have also run VMs sitting on an external HDD over USB 2 (yes, two)...not a glitch on my quad-core. SSD alone only goes so far...

 

[Checco]

It's all good!

For what it's worth I'm not really that crazy about some of the directions Apple is heading. Turning almost every computer model in to a "closed box"…that's not user upgradable (ram & storage)…and removing the optical drive.

I know that things change (computing environment)…and doing these things can help to keep costs down…and helps reduce weight (removing the optical drive)…and helps engineers make things thinner. I can live without being able to upgrade the internal storage (can always use "The Cloud" or use external storage devices). But being able to upgrade the ram was/is always nice. Since we never know what the future will bring. And being able to upgrade ram helps extend the "life" of a computer.

This is a difficult one and it's difficult to call too. I think it depends on the direction future technology takes. Will computers become more memory efficient or will manufacturers simply add enough RAM that'll suffice for years to come? I'd guess that the curves of required RAM increases per year and average device life have been studied in some detail and hopefully that's why their decision has been taken.

On the other hand, a removable RAM module is *very* old-school thinking though (from a product, not user perspective). You're adding complexity, size and cost through connectors, etc. Doesn't it just seem logical to add enough from th get-go? But how much is enough?

I think we're unlucky enough to be stuck in an awkward transitionary period, as far as these items are concerned. Hopefully it'll settle and result in better value for the user.

The iWatch. I think that I'm on the fence with this one. I'm not really into the chunky/boxy design…it could cost a bit less…and battery life could be better. If it survives…I'm betting version 2 or version 3 will be a lot better (faster/more features…better battery life...better styling...better performance...and cost the same or less). Then I might get one. We'll see.

I'm 100% with you here!

 

[pigoo3]

This is a difficult one and it's difficult to call too. I think it depends on the direction future technology takes. Will computers become more memory efficient or will manufacturers simply add enough RAM that'll suffice for years to come? I'd guess that the curves of required RAM increases per year and average device life have been studied in some detail and hopefully that's why their decision has been taken.

The problem with "big brother" doing the thinking for us (determining what amount of ram is "good" for all of us)…is manufacturers will do their statistical analysis's, market research, etc…and they will shoot for "central tendency". The amount of ram that they think is "adequate for most of us". This amount will be more than enough for some…but will not be enough for others.

The main problem is…electronics companies don't want to sell us products that we will continue to use for more than 3 years…since they want "repeat customers"…that buy newer products more frequently. This is called planned obsolescence. Many electronic items (computers) will most definitely be useful for way longer than 3 years. And having upgradeable ram is one key factor in this.

I have not purchased a brand new Apple computer since 1997 (18 years). And since that time…I have not owned a used computer that was less than 3 years old. In the past 18 years…I have not had any computing tasks that these 3 year-old computers couldn't handle. And believe me…paying approx. $500 for a 3 year old computer that originally sold for $1500 to $1800 new is a nice savings! Multiply these savings over an 18 year period…and you're talking a nice chunk of change!!!

My current "new computers" are a:

- 2011 13" MBP
- 2011 17" MBP
- 2011 27" iMac.

All three of these computers are doing great. And unless I come across a killer deal on something newer/used. I fully expect to use these computers for at least another 2-3 years.

All of these 2011 computers came with 4gig of ram. The ram in these models is upgradeable…but let's pretend the ram wasn't upgradeable (like many Apple computers now). In 2015 with Yosemite and beyond (2016, 2017, etc.)…4gig of ram just isn't going to cut it like it once did. So an 8gig ram upgrade will at some point be in order for these computers (actually the 17" 2011 MBP has 8gig of ram already).

If the ram in these 2011 computers wasn't upgradeable…I could possibly be forced into purchasing something newer. Not because the CPU's were too slow, not because the GPU's were too slow…but because they didn't have enough ram. But because their ram is upgradeable…these computers will still be usable for a total of 5, 7, or maybe even 10 years.

This is the situation that folks with newer Mac models without upgradable ram will be faced with. The computer has a fast enough CPU, and a fast enough GPU…but not enough ram to handle future OS versions, or future applications versions (ram needs which are VERY unpredictable). So a person buying a 2013, 2014, or 1015 retina MacBook Pro with 4gig or even 8gig of ram is almost certainly not going to get 5, 7 or 10 years of use out if it.

On the other hand, a removable RAM module is *very* old-school thinking though (from a product, not user perspective). You're adding complexity, size and cost through connectors, etc. Doesn't it just seem logical to add enough from th get-go? But how much is enough?

Maybe so. But just because something is "newer-thinking" does not necessarily mean "better-thinking"! Sometimes it's "Back to the Future".

Non-upgradeable ram serves the purposes of manufactures to a MUCH greater degree than it does consumers. With non-upgradeable ram…companies (not just Apple) have planned obsolescence built into machines. Apple designs future OS versions. Apple (in theory) could announce the next version of Mac OS X (10.11)…and require all computers running it to have 8gig of ram.

This would force all folks currently owning Mac's with 4gig of non-upgradeable ram to either purchase a new computer…or never be able to upgrade their computers OS again.

This is why having upgradeable ram (at least for the present time until some new technology replaces ram in computers)…is a very very good thing for consumers.

- Nick

 

[TattooedMac]

I stand by my comment, but will clarify - a plain iPad is not a productivity device.

And this is also subjective. Depends on what you call productive ?? I can sit at my iMac and build a App, and then once on the lounge I could come up with a *IDEA* moment, or I might need to change a file. From my iPad Air 2, I can download my ViewController.swift file from my Server using Transmit, edit it in the same App, or Textastic, upload it to my Server, and push it to Github using a Terminal type App and all within 5 mins.
I can also do the same with Websites built. I can change, upload, and publish sides all from within my new iPad Air 2. To me that is productivity.
I also do ALL my pages work on the iPad Air 2, as I believe its a much more user friendly and polished App to use on the device than my MBP. I also do all my Mail there too. I don't need a BT Keyboard, but I'm going to buy one anyways, because I can. Its not because I 'have to'.

 

[vansmith]

From my iPad Air 2, I can download my ViewController.swift file from my Server using Transmit, edit it in the same App, or Textastic, upload it to my Server, and push it to Github using a Terminal type App and all within 5 mins.

Oh yes, the nerd is strong in you. I just need you to influence Slydude.

You mention GitHub - care to share your repo? Here's mine. No Swift code (it's all Flex ATM) though.

 

[pigoo3]

Oh yes, the nerd is strong in you.

Ha ha. Yoda to Luke Skywalker!

- Nick

 

[TattooedMac]

Oh yes, the nerd is strong in you. I just need you to influence Slydude.

You mention GitHub - care to share your repo? Here's mine. No Swift code (it's all Flex ATM) though.

Haha Sly is set in his ways, I believe. . . Good luck though

Here is mine. (nothing special)
It consists of a couple of tools I like to build responsive websites, and design and now I'm learning Swift, so it has some things there from the lessons and testing.
I also have a side project in my Private Github, and was originally coded in Obj-C, but because I believe somewhere down the track, Apple is going to say, Swift is what your Apps will be coded in (not Obj-C), I'm waiting until I know enough to re-write it completely in Swift . .
Im in no rush to get it out, although I would like to get on the Watch Bandwagon, and have something out in the next 12months.

 

[vansmith]

Can't I be Darth Vader instead? Can I change my message: "Oh yes, the dark...nerd side is strong in this one"

TM, mine isn't much at this point - just two apps (which are both in Google Play and the App Store so I guess they've become something valuable) designed for my academic life. I've got an idea for two more apps (one mostly built at this point) but I'm not sure I want to open source them.

 

[TattooedMac]

Can't I be Darth Vader instead? Can I change my message: "Oh yes, the dark...nerd side is strong in this one"

?

TM, mine isn't much at this point - just two apps (which are both in Google Play and the App Store so I guess they've become something valuable) designed for my academic life. I've got an idea for two more apps (one mostly built at this point) but I'm not sure I want to open source them.

There is a place for openSource, but when it comes to intellectual property, and until the project is real and in the App Store, it should stay private IMHO
There is too much re-skinning going on, and I just wish Apple would follow their own guidelines, and not let these Apps into the Store.
Its not hard to see which ones have had a colour/font/image changed to try and make it look different, but they seem to not follow it.

My App, is minimalistic, and it is something that is missing n the App Store. I have another idea, and it came from my son. Think 8 Bit retro

 

[chas_m]

Checco: thanks for clarifying, we're clearly on the same page.

For the record, let me state that Apple isn't abandoning pro users: I suspect the 15" MacBook Pro is going to get a very significant overhaul this summer probably around WWDC. Apple learned **a lot** from building that Watch that is going to apply to Macs over the next few years (see the MacBook logic board as an example -- a 67 percent reduction in size in one generation?!). I also suspect the Mac Pro is going to get a notable boost this year.

Weirdly, the 13-inch MBA gains the new Force Touch trackpad but not the keyboard (rrr?), but not the double-speed flash storage of the 13-inch Air (and MacBook). I would not be surprised if that model also got upgraded over the summer.

The revamped MBPs will (eventually) offer just Thunderbolt 2 and USB-C, I would imagine. I'd still prefer a separate Magsafe, and maybe the Pro users will get one, but don't hold your breath on that. When is Thunderbolt 3 due out?

The Mac Pro will likely get the appropriate Intel chip upgrade, a graphics upgrade, and 2x flash drive performance, keeping the USB 3 and TB2 ports as-is. Should be a hella powerful machine.

 

[pigoo3]

"chas_m" reminded me about the new "Force Trackpad" (I forgot to mention/comment on it earlier). I think that this is an interesting bit of technology…and maybe something that's difficult to comment on until you actually have a chance to try it out.

Seems from some of the mini-reviews that some folks have written as part of their initial hands-on with the new models with the force trackpad…that it's better/more useful than they first imagined.

- Nick

 

[dtravis7]

"chas_m" reminded me about the new "Force Trackpad" (I forgot to mention/comment on it earlier). I think that this is an interesting bit of technology…and maybe something that's difficult to comment on until you actually have a chance to try it out.

Seems from some of the mini-reviews that some folks have written as part of their initial hands-on with the new models with the force trackpad…that it's better/more useful than they first imagined.

- Nick

I am also curious how that is going to work especially for someone like me used to feeling clicks when I press.

 

[pigoo3]

From what I understand…the Force Trackpad seems to be able to detect the difference between a soft click & a hard click…or maybe it's a short click vs. a long click (a distance thing…don't press as hard). I could see folks that always press hard or fast to make a "click" maybe having some trouble.

- Nick

 

[dbm]

Apparently you can set the threshold for the force touch and there are at least 10 levels of sensitivity (pressing harder on the play button in the media player gives 10 different levels of quicker play back), probably many more.

Pressing on the pad causes haptic feedback from the electromagnets built in to the force track pad, with the aim of tricking your brain into thinking that it 'clicked'. It will be interesting to see if they built this onto the next iPhone or iPad as haptic feedback for typing on the touch screen. My HTC smart phone from 2008 did this using the vibrate function and it was quite effective.

 

[Checco]

The problem with "big brother" doing the thinking for us (determining what amount of ram is "good" for all of us)…is manufacturers will do their statistical analysis's, market research, etc…and they will shoot for "central tendency". The amount of ram that they think is "adequate for most of us". This amount will be more than enough for some…but will not be enough for others.

The main problem is…electronics companies don't want to sell us products that we will continue to use for more than 3 years…since they want "repeat customers"…that buy newer products more frequently. This is called planned obsolescence. Many electronic items (computers) will most definitely be useful for way longer than 3 years. And having upgradeable ram is one key factor in this.

The only way "around" this is to max. out the RAM when purchasing new and looking for maxed out units when buying used. The down side is that what Apple defines as maximum and what the board can handle aren't always the same!

I have not purchased a brand new Apple computer since 1997 (18 years). And since that time…I have not owned a used computer that was less than 3 years old. In the past 18 years…I have not had any computing tasks that these 3 year-old computers couldn't handle. And believe me…paying approx. $500 for a 3 year old computer that originally sold for $1500 to $1800 new is a nice savings! Multiply these savings over an 18 year period…and you're talking a nice chunk of change!!!

My current "new computers" are a:

- 2011 13" MBP
- 2011 17" MBP
- 2011 27" iMac.

All three of these computers are doing great. And unless I come across a killer deal on something newer/used. I fully expect to use these computers for at least another 2-3 years.

I like your approach here, I take a similar with cars...no more buying new there! Value is an important thing and that's a good saving. I have a 2011 iMac that I've taken to my office for one of the guys to use for development (I use my MBP only now) and it still does very well (SSD installed). I'm not sure if I'm quite ready for a used Mac though ;D .

And this is also subjective. Depends on what you call productive ?? I can sit at my iMac and build a App, and then once on the lounge I could come up with a *IDEA* moment, or I might need to change a file. From my iPad Air 2, I can download my ViewController.swift file from my Server using Transmit, edit it in the same App, or Textastic, upload it to my Server, and push it to Github using a Terminal type App and all within 5 mins.
I can also do the same with Websites built. I can change, upload, and publish sides all from within my new iPad Air 2. To me that is productivity.

That's a quick fix - I can do that on my iPhone 6 Plus too!

I also do ALL my pages work on the iPad Air 2, as I believe its a much more user friendly and polished App to use on the device than my MBP. I also do all my Mail there too. I don't need a BT Keyboard, but I'm going to buy one anyways, because I can. Its not because I 'have to'.

Well if it works for you, great! But I do think your in the minority... Is it possibly an Aussie thing?

 

[pigoo3]

The only way "around" this is to max. out the RAM when purchasing new and looking for maxed out units when buying used.

Yes…I TOTALLY agree with you here! Maxing out the ram at the time of purchase is pretty much the only way we have to assure the maximum "useable life" out of current Mac models with non-upgradeable ram.

The down side is that what Apple defines as maximum and what the board can handle aren't always the same!

This in a "weird way" is actually a positive! I know exactly what you mean about how some Mac models are found (after release) to be able to handle much more ram than Apple "Officially" states. In many cases 2x the ram.

With these non-upgradeable ram Macintosh computer models…we probably won't run into this "problem" any more. Since non-upgradeable ram is non-upgradeable ram. So even IF these computers could theoretically handle more ram. We can't upgrade them!

I like your approach here, I take a similar with cars...no more buying new there!

Believe it or not…I've NEVER owned a new car. When I was younger & couldn't afford a new car…I of course always had used cars. Then when I got older & could afford a new car…I already learned that buying a new car was a BIG waste of money…for me (too much depreciation in the first few years).

Of course I've also been doing all my own auto repairs since I was 18 (at least all repairs a home mechanic can do). So this of course helps with buying "used" cars.

Having a brand new car is VERY nice…but can be very expensive when done every time a newer vehicle is needed/wanted. Automobiles are absolute money pits!!! But of course ABSOLUTELY necessary (in many cases) to get from point A to point B.

- Nick

 

[TattooedMac]

Well if it works for you, great! But I do think your in the minority... Is it possibly an Aussie thing?

Yep, and it's called Aussie ingenuity
But in all seriousness, I really don't think people give the iOS Devices enough credit in what they can achieve. I' modding a test in the next 4 weeks once I recieve my ZAGG Folio keyboard case, and that is too use it for everything I would of done on my MBP, and see if I can pass down my MBP to the missus, and me keep my iPad Air 2 and iMac.
The only restrictions I can forsee is having to do 99% of my coding on my iMac (using Xcode) for App , 99% of my design work on my iMac (I use Affinity Designer & Sketch).

I still believe that Pages is best on the iPad, being a lot easier to use, and i love working in it, as we'll, on my iPad, because im focused, and not swayed to have a Web page open or anything else to distract me. It is me, my iPad Air 2 and Pages. . . . . .
I'll come back in 5 weeks and let you know how it went..

Sent from my iPad Air 2

PS: would love to see the stat's on how many people view and reply to these forums on a mobile device : hint hint: ��