Why no touchscreen??

[KevinJS]

I think Apple has a very firm eye on the way people actually use computers, and already supply a range of touchscreen computers for those who want the capability. To dismiss the iPad, particularly the iPad Pro as a toy, is to refuse to face reality. Most people who are using iPads have them in their hands, with the result that the screen is instantly available for typing and interaction. Adding the Apple Pencil, with its single pixel accuracy, gives artists etc the control they need over the device. In 5+ years on iOS forums, I've lost count of the number of requests for information we have received for external keyboards and mouse support. It gets frustrating asking why people want mouse support for a touchscreen device, particularly when the answer is "Just because...". I suppose it cuts both ways. People think they want something without thinking through why they want it.

In the "real" computer area, the laptop is probably the only variant that could reasonably support touchscreen. Wall mounting of monitors, desk space, headless servers, using large screen televisions across the room from where one is sitting all conspire to make touchscreen useless for desktop machines, and adding this functionality would place the laptop into a completely different market to the rest of the computers in a manufacturers line-up.

Already, the new TouchBar has moved the goalposts for desktop machines. When we see new iMacs (and Mac Pros, assuming they survive to the next generation) will they have the TouchBar built into the BT keyboard? It's a tall order. For one thing, the TouchBar is at least partly controlled by its own processor so separating the TouchBar electronics from the main computer could be tricky, not to mention making the BT keyboard hugely expensive.

No doubt, Apple's design teams are working flat out on new designs. I, for one, believe that those designs will not be influenced by a a few shrill voices arguing that Microsoft and others are taking the lead. Time will tell how successful the new MBPs perform in the real world. Since I initially stated that I don't want fingermarks on my screen and had my objection casually dismissed as "lame" I've had a chance to think about this. I still don't want grubby fingers on my screen. Now, I realize, I don't want my workflow interrupted by having to move my fingers to the screen. Keyboard and touchpad are enough for me. The guy sitting next to me has a Windows laptop and is busily working away, using various apps. His fingers haven't moved to the screen in the last half hour. I can't tell whether his laptop has a touchscreen, but if it doesn't, he is clearly not missing the feature.

 

[Slydude]

@dumbmonkey Thanks for the links. I'll be sure to check those out. I think I mentioned the e-ink keys on a previous video chat though it might be one of those where something went wrong mid show and things did not upload properly. I like the idea though. I can never seem to remember all of those specialty key combos for the various programs.

 

[itasara]

You make my point, Kevin. You have needs at your work what works for you and other people have other needs.I don't work in an office I'm just home I put my laptop on my lap I bet the kitchen, and would have no problem if I had a touchscreen. iPads don't do for me what a computer does. Everybody iPad.My phone does a lot but it's not a computer. So I feel that Apple needs to work with all its constituents, with some different varieties that's what I do when I go shopping I look at one thing and then I look at something else a little different and I decide what my needs are.

I know, my voice teacher has a very large screen and a desktop computer and she uses the touch for making her scream bigger for doing other things picking out the folder she wants. She doesn't have an arm problem with it. She doesn't complain she has to reach across her desk to touch her screen. Seems to be that your problem. I have a screen cover on my laptop and my screen itself probably doesn't have any finger prints on it. Now maybe one can't use the screen cover with the touch but I have two screens on my iPhone and it still works with touch. The bottom screen is one I put on when it was new the very thin glass ones. And then my OtterBox cover has plastic screen which I'm not crazy about because it does get kind a messed up but it still works when I touch my screen. And my screen has never broken as long as I had an OtterBox on it.

 

[KevinJS]

I certainly do not make your point, @itasara. It seems to me that you are struggling to actually make a point.

I don't use a laptop, or desktop, when I'm working. I'm a trucker, so I use GPS and mapping on an iPad or iPhone, and communications apps. My iPad and iPhone are very much "computers", running apps, or programs if you must, in order to achieve a result. I think that pretty much defines what a computer is about. You can argue all day and night about what defines a computer, but at the end of it, it's your opinion and your opinion does not define reality. Neither does mine, but I'm actually aware of that.

The Mac operating system was developed without touchscreen in mind, and works very well with the control devices available. Windows, up to version 7, also worked with keyboard and mouse and I never had any complaints with it. I still use a PC running Vista for some applications. Windows 8, and then 10, attempted to become an OS to capitalize on a gimmick, and failed miserably. It is neither a good desktop OS, nor a good mobile one. It is not intuitive, and is downright ugly. My wife has a state of the art Windows 10 laptop, with touchscreen. I was doing some work on it a couple of weeks ago for her, and touched the screen, just to satisfy the geek in me. "Oh, I'd forgotten it did that" was her response.

Maybe your teacher has longer arms than most people, or a smaller desk.

 

[dumbmonkey]

Personally, I don't think touchscreens are worth making for desktop computers - except maybe in cases for specific situations such as architects, graphic designers, photo/movie editors. I can see how it could work for them. I think with the Surface Studio Microsoft is making a good bid for the "creatives" there. However, I don't think it will make a big difference as far as market share. It is niche. Although, it would cool for those that need it if Apple had something for this niche but I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers didn't really support providing just for them to have a model.

I agree with a recent comment that the touchscreen is something that people think they want but will never actually use or need. I have an office I support that was so excited about Dell touchscreen desktops, none of them use it or even remember they are touchscreen.

I do think it is a good idea to have a laptop model with touchscreen, at least on or two. While I have found that I don't like leaving the keyboard to touch the screen, I still think it would be good to have the option for the people that do utilize the touchscreen aspect. I think it makes more sense to have a 2-n-1 setup because you could make it like a tablet. I would use that more. I wouldn't want to fall too far behind. Maybe it is a situation like another comment previously that Apple doesn't really create "brand new things." They didn't invent the smartphone but did make revolutionary changes and improvements to it to make it better and something we "didn't know we needed."

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Interestingly, I received notice today in my e-mail about an article on whether an iPad Pro could make a good replacement for a laptop:

The iPad to Replace Your Notebook
The iPad Pro Review: A Bigger, More Powerful iPad
https://www.lifewire.com/ipad-pro-review-1994198

 

[dtravis7]

Interestingly, I received notice today in my e-mail about an article on whether an iPad Pro could make a good replacement for a laptop:

The iPad to Replace Your Notebook
The iPad Pro Review: A Bigger, More Powerful iPad
https://www.lifewire.com/ipad-pro-review-1994198

very interesting Randy. sounds like Tim Cook! Grin

 

[salpert]

I can agree that it is probably best that Macbooks don't have a touchscreen.
But I have an Adobe Creative Cloud Membership, and while I do use it on my Macbook Pro, I would really like a MacOS Tablet with a pen, so that I can draw directly on it with Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop.
The iPad Pro doesn't cut it - if it were really a "Pro" device, I'd be able to run professional grade applications on it. Come on, it'll never be more than a glorified browser until they at least put a 256GB SSD in it (how about a real FileSystem too?).
The long and short of it is, I'm keeping my 15" Macbook that I purchased 2 years ago, but I'm selling my 27" iMac to make room on my desk for my new Surface Studio.
Apple has made up their minds on this topic, and so we are going different ways; I pre-ordered a Surface Studio yesterday. Apple can sneer at my choice, if they like.

 

[KevinJS]

I can agree that it is probably best that Macbooks don't have a touchscreen.
But I have an Adobe Creative Cloud Membership, and while I do use it on my Macbook Pro, I would really like a MacOS Tablet with a pen, so that I can draw directly on it with Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop.
The iPad Pro doesn't cut it - if it were really a "Pro" device, I'd be able to run professional grade applications on it. Come on, it'll never be more than a glorified browser until they at least put a 256GB SSD in it (how about a real FileSystem too?).
The long and short of it is, I'm keeping my 15" Macbook that I purchased 2 years ago, but I'm selling my 27" iMac to make room on my desk for my new Surface Studio.
Apple has made up their minds on this topic, and so we are going different ways; I pre-ordered a Surface Studio yesterday. Apple can sneer at my choice, if they like.

The latest iPad Pro DOES have 256Gb storage. The file system is just the way iDevices work. I'm still disappointed that Apple didn't introduce Apple Pencil support for that huge TouchPad on the new MBP.

It doesn't matter whether Apple sneer at your choices or not. It's your money; your choice. If Apple can't supply what you want, then it's better to go to a supplier who can. It's just as simple as that.

 

[ferrarr]

It doesn't matter whether Apple sneer at your choices or not. It's your money; your choice. If Apple can't supply what you want, then it's better to go to a supplier who can. It's just as simple as that.

Really? I thought I saw Apple sneer at me when my wife and two kids got their Windows 10 pc's. :Blushing:

 

[KevinJS]

Really? I thought I saw Apple sneer at me when my wife and two kids got their Windows 10 pc's. :Blushing:

No, I think your array of Apple equipment protects you from Apple's bruised ego.

 

[salpert]

Ah, so I was in error - the iPad Pro does have storage. If it's anything like the iPad Air, it still needs a better file system though.

 

[KevinJS]

Ah, so I was in error - the iPad Pro does have storage. If it's anything like the iPad Air, it still needs a better file system though.

It is like the iPad Air. It's an iOS device, so it does not have a central file structure. It is app based, not file based. For most users of iPads and iPhones that is not a problem, but if your application requires a more conventional device, it will not work for you. It's possible to move a file around between apps using the "Open In..." feature. (Or more correctly, to make a copy of it available to another app.) Only you can decide whether that's good enough.

 

[ferrarr]

You are aware Adobe has Photoshop and Illustrator available for iOS? I don't have a Creative Cloud membership, but you could probably install it and log in to start using it on the iPad.

 

[pm-r]

very interesting Randy. sounds like Tim Cook! Grin

:Blushing: :Blushing:

And ol' Phil and the boys…





- Patrick
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[salpert]

They have cut-down versions of Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. The Illustrator app is called Illustrator Draw, but while it is a vector drawing app, it isn't Illustrator.
I heard that the ios Photoshop version isn't bad, particularly for photo editing. But I use Photoshop for digital painting, and it doesn't match the real thing there either.
Most people say that you can use the Adobe iOS apps for quick work, and then it is best to save the work in the cloud and load it from there onto a computer with the real applications to flesh it out and finish. Adobe recommends this approach, too, and their evaluation is that the iPad Pro does not substitute for a laptop for creative work.
Microsoft is producing a really fine pen-surface touchable screen that can run full applications- though Tim Cook thinks it is an idea that doesn't work well.

Here's a pro digital artist's perception of the Surface Studio: https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2016/10/26/the-surface-studio

And here's Adobe's take on the iPad Pro: http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/tablets/adobe-says-ipad-pro-can-t-replace-a-laptop-for-creative-work-and-it-s-okay-1309221

 

[salpert]

You are aware Adobe has Photoshop and Illustrator available for iOS? I don't have a Creative Cloud membership, but you could probably install it and log in to start using it on the iPad.

No, these are not the real Adobe apps - just cut-down approximations written for iOS. The apps you're talking about are free. Do you really believe they come close to the applications that I pay $60 per month for? I feel that Apple is delusional about this approach. Dell just announced another fantastic computer very much like the Surface Studio, with a Dial of its own too, and a very interesting couple of twists to its approach, using dual screens! A sort of revolution in touchscreen & pen computing is happening, and Apple's iPad Pro is embarrassing in comparison.

 

[salpert]

Wishful Thinking

As stated the Surface Pro is just a glorified tablet with a keyboard.

I'm a Mac guy for many years now. But the issue that isn't going to go away, is that the "Glorified Tablet" runs full applications and iPads don't.
There's a sort of dream that artists have of running Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, Manga Studio and more on a touchscreen device with a high quality pen. People, including myself, are going to keep complaining until you can do that on an Apple Tablet.

The Surface Pro 4 is really good - the Pen and Digitizer need a bit of work, but they are showing that the dream is pretty much happening now. Perhaps even more so with the Surface Studio.

There were BIG lines today at the Microsoft Store in Boca Raton Florida - big enough that I never got in to see it.