• Welcome to the Off-Topic/Schweb's Lounge

    In addition to the Mac-Forums Community Guidelines, there are a few things you should pay attention to while in The Lounge.

    Lounge Rules
    • If your post belongs in a different forum, please post it there.
    • While this area is for off-topic conversations, that doesn't mean that every conversation will be permitted. The moderators will, at their sole discretion, close or delete any threads which do not serve a beneficial purpose to the community.

    Understand that while The Lounge is here as a place to relax and discuss random topics, that doesn't mean we will allow any topic. Topics which are inflammatory, hurtful, or otherwise clash with our Mac-Forums Community Guidelines will be removed.

Who is the Apple Computer of the Automotive Industry?

Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Points
1
I think anyone who knows cars would say a german manufacture, they make the best cars....

Volkswagen Auto Group (Volkswagen, Audi, Lambo, Seat etc...)
BMW and Mercedes

I would absolutly love a Mercedes S Class, that is (And has always been) the benchmark in which all other cars are measured against in terms of technology in a car, if you want to see every possible gadget thats possible at this exact moment in time.... you look at the top of the range Mercedes S-Class.

Im a big fan of all german manufactures, i wouldnt buy anything else
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
124
Points
63
Location
The lonely planet
Your Mac's Specs
Too many...
There is a reason that iPhones are integrated into BMWs. That should answer your question.

LOL. BMW was one of the last luxury car companies to offer iOS support, let alone iPhone support.
 

cwa107


Retired Staff
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
27,042
Reaction score
812
Points
113
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
Your Mac's Specs
14" MacBook Pro M1 Pro, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD
I was mainly referring to their cars as in sedans comparable to the Passat. Their SUVs(Landcruiser, and 4Runner) are much different, and arguably some of the best off-roaders on the planet, from their cars(sedans, etc). Sorry to say it, but people don't buy Toyotas(camry/corolla/etc) because they are good driving cars, they buy a Toyota because they know it will drive them tomorrow from point a to point b.

I would agree with that statement. In particular, the Corolla... my wife had a 2003 model and we were not at all impressed with the quality. Traded it for a Subaru Legacy about a year ago and am achieving better mileage and it has a MUCH better ride and handling.
 

cwa107


Retired Staff
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
27,042
Reaction score
812
Points
113
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
Your Mac's Specs
14" MacBook Pro M1 Pro, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD
I think anyone who knows cars would say a german manufacture, they make the best cars....

Volkswagen Auto Group (Volkswagen, Audi, Lambo, Seat etc...)
BMW and Mercedes

I would absolutly love a Mercedes S Class, that is (And has always been) the benchmark in which all other cars are measured against in terms of technology in a car, if you want to see every possible gadget thats possible at this exact moment in time.... you look at the top of the range Mercedes S-Class.

Im a big fan of all german manufactures, i wouldnt buy anything else

I find this impression perplexing. I've had the misfortune of working on a few VWs now that left my head scratching as to why they make some of the design choices they do.

In particular, my friend has a 2003 Passat. To my surprise, he asked for my help in changing the air filter. I was dumbfounded when I opened the hood... for God only knows what reason, they decided to mount the tiny four cylinder engine in the traditional fashion, as opposed to transverse, like nearly every other FWD vehicle in the world. This forced them to butt the air intake up against the exhaust manifold... probably the worst position you could put it in, given that you want to take in cooler, denser air. This necessitated a massive heat shield assembly. Taking the air filter out, which should be a 5 minute process, turned into a 30 minute ordeal. Why they would choose to go with such a layout is beyond me... there was plenty of room under the hood to go with a transverse mount, and it would have been far more serviceable.

I should have learned from that experience, but being the glutton for punishment that I am, I volunteered to help him change out a tail light bulb.. a simple 10 minute affair, you say? Oh no... not on the Passat (wagon)... rather than just have a trim panel to pop-off, twist and pop the bulb out, it required removing a huge backplane, loaded with bulbs of different sizes, and trying to figure out which one went where - and which combination of tabs allowed it to be freed from the assembly. Never seen anything like it... the owner's manual actually tells you to take it to the dealer if a bulb needs to be replaced! Unreal.

Shortly after those exercises, the car overheated. As it turns out, that particular engine has a problem with sludge accumulation that VW is well aware of. The head had to be pulled at 60,000 miles and the whole thing had to be cleared of sludge by hand - a $1500 job - for something that never should have happened.

And that's just one example of German engineering at its finest. I'd be happy to tell you about the time I blew a fuse in a VW Cabrio and had to visit a VW dealer for a replacement, simply because VW couldn't be bothered to use a standard blade fuse that could be picked up at your average convenience store... or the Jetta that had a bad habit of having its rear door windows drop randomly into the door panel, breaking them because of a poorly designed retention clip.

I don't want to paint all German manufacturers with the same brush, but I'd sooner buy an American or Japanese marque before I'd waste good money on a VW.
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Points
1
I find this impression perplexing. I've had the misfortune of working on a few VWs now that left my head scratching as to why they make some of the design choices they do.

In particular, my friend has a 2003 Passat. To my surprise, he asked for my help in changing the air filter. I was dumbfounded when I opened the hood... for God only knows what reason, they decided to mount the tiny four cylinder engine in the traditional fashion, as opposed to transverse, like nearly every other FWD vehicle in the world. This forced them to butt the air intake up against the exhaust manifold... probably the worst position you could put it in, given that you want to take in cooler, denser air. This necessitated a massive heat shield assembly. Taking the air filter out, which should be a 5 minute process, turned into a 30 minute ordeal. Why they would choose to go with such a layout is beyond me... there was plenty of room under the hood to go with a transverse mount, and it would have been far more serviceable.

I should have learned from that experience, but being the glutton for punishment that I am, I volunteered to help him change out a tail light bulb.. a simple 10 minute affair, you say? Oh no... not on the Passat (wagon)... rather than just have a trim panel to pop-off, twist and pop the bulb out, it required removing a huge backplane, loaded with bulbs of different sizes, and trying to figure out which one went where - and which combination of tabs allowed it to be freed from the assembly. Never seen anything like it... the owner's manual actually tells you to take it to the dealer if a bulb needs to be replaced! Unreal.

Shortly after those exercises, the car overheated. As it turns out, that particular engine has a problem with sludge accumulation that VW is well aware of. The head had to be pulled at 60,000 miles and the whole thing had to be cleared of sludge by hand - a $1500 job - for something that never should have happened.

And that's just one example of German engineering at its finest. I'd be happy to tell you about the time I blew a fuse in a VW Cabrio and had to visit a VW dealer for a replacement, simply because VW couldn't be bothered to use a standard blade fuse that could be picked up at your average convenience store... or the Jetta that had a bad habit of having its rear door windows drop randomly into the door panel, breaking them because of a poorly designed retention clip.

I don't want to paint all German manufacturers with the same brush, but I'd sooner buy an American or Japanese marque before I'd waste good money on a VW.

Yes i do agree with you, however all manufactures have done some stupid designs in the past, in my experience the worst of all are the french manufactures, in my education i was actually shown this this:

Citroen
Renault
And
Peugeot

C.R.A.P.

As for the question that many people ask "Why would they design it in such a way".... the answer is always simple... so you have to take it to a main dealer to have the job in question carried out, its not because they are stupid, its simply beause they do not want you to be able to do the job yourself, and all car companys do it in some way or another, and getting back to the point of this thread, apple are exactly the same way, when have apple ever made a product that is easy for the user to do anything with in terms of changing parts etc... they make beautiful amazing products but they are not designed to be messed with by the user.

Im all for japenese cars, they are known for reliability, but i would never buy american... america can make some amazing stuff.. planes for example, but when it comes to cars, they can never match up to the europe or japan equivalant, there great at going fast in a straight line, but when it comes to a track and corners which is where real enginering comes in.... there not that great at all. After all europe designed the greatest car ever made, the Veyron.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
726
Reaction score
28
Points
28
Location
London, Londonshire, England.
Your Mac's Specs
13" Late 2011 MBP,iPad '3' 32gb,iPhone4 32gb
My first three cars were all French, and bar the first one, they were great little things! (Peugeot 106 Gti & 206 Gti 180) I know everyone has difference experiences, but my experience with French, well Peugeot at least, was good.

After that I went Japanese - Mitsubishi Evo 8. Blindingly quick, but an absolute pig to own. I would recommend a Peugeot over that Mitsi any day of the week

As for the greatest car ever... Mclaren F1 for me. Because 3 seats is better than 2. ;)
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Points
1
My first three cars were all French, and bar the first one, they were great little things! (Peugeot 106 Gti & 206 Gti 180) I know everyone has difference experiences, but my experience with French, well Peugeot at least, was good.

After that I went Japanese - Mitsubishi Evo 8. Blindingly quick, but an absolute pig to own. I would recommend a Peugeot over that Mitsi any day of the week

As for the greatest car ever... Mclaren F1 for me. Because 3 seats is better than 2. ;)

Yea ive heard Evo's can be a bit of a pig to own, they need a service a 100 yds or so lol.

The mclaren F1 is a fantastic car! I was gutted when i heard rowan atkinson crashed his, greatest experience for was i recently had a go in an Aston Martin V8 Vantage, amazing cars... threw it into the corners faster than i felt possible on the track and it just grips and doesnt let go.

Aston martin DBS is one of my dream cars.
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
4,301
Reaction score
124
Points
63
Location
The lonely planet
Your Mac's Specs
Too many...
My dad and I actually penciled out how much money we've spent on GM cars alone. $160,000. Wonder why we don't have any of them still? Garbage quality! You keep on thinking that maybe the new model will be better, only to be proven wrong. We like to buy American cars, so it was mainly GM cars. The last car we tried was the 2007 Saturn Aura XR. It had won Motor Trend's Car of The Year award, so it should've been good. Holy crap were we wrong. The was the first car we went through with the lemon law. We switched to Ford for American cars, and so far it has been 33k problem free miles. GM was a lot of good money wasted!

Just about every car company has or had engine oil sludge problems. Even Toyota deals with sludge to this day!

I've turned into a VW enthusiast over the many years, and I've read into engine problems, but they aren't as HUGE of a problem as people make them out to be. It was also noted that sludge would be created when people abused their cars, and didn't follow maintenance procedures, pushed oil life to their limit, while using wrong gas, or switching to different types of oil that weren't 502-00, 503-00 and etc, certified by VW. That's what you get for buying a car that is made in Germany, and doesn't follow US standards. It's not the car's fault the user is dumb.
It's also not really hard to figure out how ending sludge is developed. You just look at the sludge, notice what's it's made up of, and determine other internal problems. Most were caused by user missies. Sorry to say that, but Americans are dumb when it comes to cars. They expect them cars to fix themselves. Go to Europe and you will see how long a car is truly capable living(VW). There, people actually know a thing or two about maintaining their car...not because they they necessarily like to, but because their cars are as "disposable" as the cars of average US/North American drivers.

As for complexity, look at your Mac.

As for engine, there is no true standard of how the engine should lay, just used best to acquire best driving dynamics. Longitudinal mounted engine give better performance, better weight distribution, and better fuel efficiency, on a car that is mated to a car that is available in both fwd and awd variants. AWD cars perform better with a longitudinally mounted engine that has a drive shaft going straight to the back. This equals less angles, which can lead to power and efficiency loss. This is a problem with horizontally mounted awd engines. FWD is not so much of a problem wither way. In Longitudnal mounts, the engine also sits over the front axle, as apposed to sitting in front of the axle on a horizontal mount.

There are cars that are cheap, and don't require maintenance. There are cars that people shouldn't buy because they won't be able to maintain it. There are cars that people buy for the wrong reason. The there are those people buy something without knowing what they are getting into. That's VW. It's a German car, it's not going to be perfect, like appliances from Toyota, but is so much more car than it will ever be.

I'd like to point out that, as I'm sure you probably know, you can create an endless list of car problems from just about every car manufacturer in the planet. Lexus, the worlds most reliable car maker, can have a list of problem equaling a novel, if I ever felt like it was important to note.

As I've learned, car reliability, and being problem free does not equate to a car being better. I would trade all the cars I have right now to have my '07 passat in brand new condition.

Just my part of this...discussion :)

The only car from GM will EVER think over owning again is a Suburban. That's it.
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Points
1
My dad and I actually penciled out how much money we've spent on GM cars alone. $160,000. Wonder why we don't have any of them still? Garbage quality! You keep on thinking that maybe the new model will be better, only to be proven wrong. We like to buy American cars, so it was mainly GM cars. The last car we tried was the 2007 Saturn Aura XR. It had won Motor Trend's Car of The Year award, so it should've been good. Holy crap were we wrong. The was the first car we went through with the lemon law. We switched to Ford for American cars, and so far it has been 33k problem free miles. GM was a lot of good money wasted!

Just about every car company has or had engine oil sludge problems. Even Toyota deals with sludge to this day!

I've turned into a VW enthusiast over the many years, and I've read into engine problems, but they aren't as HUGE of a problem as people make them out to be. It was also noted that sludge would be created when people abused their cars, and didn't follow maintenance procedures, pushed oil life to their limit, while using wrong gas, or switching to different types of oil that weren't 502-00, 503-00 and etc, certified by VW. That's what you get for buying a car that is made in Germany, and doesn't follow US standards. It's not the car's fault the user is dumb.
It's also not really hard to figure out how ending sludge is developed. You just look at the sludge, notice what's it's made up of, and determine other internal problems. Most were caused by user missies. Sorry to say that, but Americans are dumb when it comes to cars. They expect them cars to fix themselves. Go to Europe and you will see how long a car is truly capable living(VW). There, people actually know a thing or two about maintaining their car...not because they they necessarily like to, but because their cars are as "disposable" as the cars of average US/North American drivers.

As for complexity, look at your Mac.

As for engine, there is no true standard of how the engine should lay, just used best to acquire best driving dynamics. Longitudinal mounted engine give better performance, better weight distribution, and better fuel efficiency, on a car that is mated to a car that is available in both fwd and awd variants. AWD cars perform better with a longitudinally mounted engine that has a drive shaft going straight to the back. This equals less angles, which can lead to power and efficiency loss. This is a problem with horizontally mounted awd engines. FWD is not so much of a problem wither way. In Longitudnal mounts, the engine also sits over the front axle, as apposed to sitting in front of the axle on a horizontal mount.

There are cars that are cheap, and don't require maintenance. There are cars that people shouldn't buy because they won't be able to maintain it. There are cars that people buy for the wrong reason. The there are those people buy something without knowing what they are getting into. That's VW. It's a German car, it's not going to be perfect, like appliances from Toyota, but is so much more car than it will ever be.

I'd like to point out that, as I'm sure you probably know, you can create an endless list of car problems from just about every car manufacturer in the planet. Lexus, the worlds most reliable car maker, can have a list of problem equaling a novel, if I ever felt like it was important to note.

As I've learned, car reliability, and being problem free does not equate to a car being better. I would trade all the cars I have right now to have my '07 passat in brand new condition.

Just my part of this...discussion :)

The only car from GM will EVER think over owning again is a Suburban. That's it.

I absolutly agree with you... GM (Which is mainly Vauxhall or Opel in europe) are not exactly great cars, if someone is looking for a car in the same price band i would always say Ford is the better choice. Plenty of my family and friends own a VW (My dad has a 2006 Passat) or an Audi, and none of them have ever had a single problem, my dads passat drives like a dream and the build quality is second to none.... Reminds me of my iMac but in car form!
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Messages
7,298
Reaction score
302
Points
83
Location
Wisconsin
Your Mac's Specs
Mac Mini (Late 2014) 2.6GHz Intel Core i5 Memory: 8GB 1600MHz DDR3
C If I had to pick one I would say Jeep Wrangler. Solid, reliable and just does very well what it is designed to do.

Really? Consumer Reports never rates any Jeep products as reliable.
 

WLH


Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Taxalvania
Your Mac's Specs
21.5 " iMac 3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 8GB Mem 1TB HD - 13" MacBook Pro 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 8GB
Really? Consumer Reports never rates any Jeep products as reliable.
I've had 3 Jeep over the year and had very few problems....
 

cwa107


Retired Staff
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
27,042
Reaction score
812
Points
113
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
Your Mac's Specs
14" MacBook Pro M1 Pro, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD
I've had 3 Jeep over the year and had very few problems....

I'm just not seeing the correlation though.... Jeep is known for very utilitarian, form-follows-function kind of designs. That has to be just about the antithesis of what Apple stands for.
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
6,879
Reaction score
191
Points
63
Location
Tucson, AZ
Your Mac's Specs
Way... way too many specs to list.
I've had 3 Jeep over the year and had very few problems....

I've had a ton of them, many of them torn down regularly (one or two torn completely down, and completely rebuilt, including building frames) ;)

Nothing like snapping ujoints, axle shafts, drive shafts, transfercase output assemblies, power steering boxes, and tearing frames apart. Oh the joy of offroading. :Oops:

I agree with cwa though, the universal bodied jeep.. is well, pretty much the antithesis of the design philosophy of Apple.
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
295
Reaction score
6
Points
18
Location
Seattle, WA
Your Mac's Specs
2011 MB Air Core i7 256GB, 2011 Mini with 8GB RAM, iPad 2, iPhone 4S, 2TB Time Capsule
I am kinda shocked that Audi or the Volkswagen Group cars were left out of the poll.

I do not know of another brand that has impressed me with the same degree of build quality, customer service, and therefore owner loyalty. As for being "Apple like" I feel that several of their cars are and were ahead of their time, and when something isn't necessarily "new" (the A7 comes to mind, it is an Audi version of the Merc CLS) they take the time to do it right and make it amazing. They don't always need to be first at the expense of being best.

I ACTUALLY have an RS4 and love it. I has been a great car, any issues have been under warranty, and the best part about it is that I own a performance car that works in Seattle. I have several friends who have done well and own some neat rides (Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Astons, etc) and they all have at least one Audi in the garage for when they "can't drive the fun stuff."

Bought it three and a half years ago and the time has come to get something that manages better mileage (I get about 20MPG MAYBE in my combined city/hwy commute). The only cars that I am considering are the A3/A4/A5. Thankfully I get to keep my old car, so all I needed to do is weigh the pros and cons between the hatchback, the sedan, and the coupe. As much as I want the coupe, for a utility car the A3 makes the most sense, as I already have a regular sedan.

The point there being that I won't consider buying anything else. I know that whatever I get from Audi, I am going to love it and I know that it won't let me down. I own Apple products for the same reason. There are a ton of different phones/tablets/computers/routers/backup devices/etc... I chose to give Apple money for theirs because my past experiences have shown that they will always work easily and in the rare moments that they don't, Apple has got my back.
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
1,112
Reaction score
53
Points
48
Location
Somewhere in the world
Your Mac's Specs
Powermac g4 400mhz, 10gb, 256mb ram, OS9
I would have to say BMW, or Acura. Good cars!;D
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
4,695
Reaction score
73
Points
48
Location
houston texas
Your Mac's Specs
09 MBP 8GB ram 500GB HD OS 10.9 32B iPad 4 32GB iPhone 5 iOs7 2TB TC Apple TV3
Was a big Mercedes fan until I got to ride in a Cadillac CTV now thats my dream car .
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
25,564
Reaction score
486
Points
83
Location
Blue Mountains NSW Australia
Your Mac's Specs
Silver M1 iMac 512/16/8/8 macOS 11.6
What a nonsense poll!
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
967
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Location
Indiana
Your Mac's Specs
Main-11" Air, iPhone 6+, iPad Mini 3, Hi-Fi Extras- Too many to count
Audi or Volkswagen. And mercedes, I dont like BMW. or any american car company. German cars in general just stand out and seem to be made a lot better then other cars do. VW and mercedes have made a lot of innovations and sense VW going to be the largest car company in the world soon i think they are the apple of the auto industry.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Messages
7,298
Reaction score
302
Points
83
Location
Wisconsin
Your Mac's Specs
Mac Mini (Late 2014) 2.6GHz Intel Core i5 Memory: 8GB 1600MHz DDR3
Well, Japanese car makers always seem to dominate the rankings of quality done by scientific means.
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
75
Points
48
Your Mac's Specs
2.6GHz Core i7 15" MacBook Pro - 8GB DDR3 SDRAM - 750GB 7200 RPM HDD - GeForce 650M GT 1GB VRAM
I was mainly referring to their cars as in sedans comparable to the Passat. Their SUVs(Landcruiser, and 4Runner) are much different, and arguably some of the best off-roaders on the planet, from their cars(sedans, etc). Sorry to say it, but people don't buy Toyotas(camry/corolla/etc) because they are good driving cars, they buy a Toyota because they know it will drive them tomorrow from point a to point b.
They may not be flashy, but their resilience and reliability make the likes of Audi, Jaguar, Porsche, et al. look like plastic toys. If you actually drive your car regularly and aren't just using it as an occasional fun play-thing, Toyotas are fantastic. I'd also take a Lexus (under the Toyota umbrella) over a Mercedes any day of the week.

I think anyone who knows cars would say a german manufacture, they make the best cars....
The Italians would like a word with you. ;)
 

Shop Amazon


Shop for your Apple, Mac, iPhone and other computer products on Amazon.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.
Top