Time for a new Mac?

[allen-uk]

Mrs Allen has a MacBook Pro 15 inch late 2008, 2.4Ghz Intel Core 2 duo, Memory 6Gb, updated with a 1tb SATA drive.

Which she loves.

Doesn't use it for much apart from social chatting, Googling, photo storage, etc.

Can't update any further past El Capitan, due to its age. Not usually a problem, but some recent revises to Safari appear to be absent from her Safari 11, which made getting into her bank account a bit difficult recently (although if she went in through Firefox or Chrome she had no problems).

She doesn't like having money spent on her, and I can't think of a very good reason for updating, other than it's 12 years old and counting.

Would you leave things as they are, or anticipate more deterioration in the future, i.e. with programs no longer being viable?

I'd value your opinions.

Allen.

 

[Raz0rEdge]

Would you leave things as they are, or anticipate more deterioration in the future, i.e. with programs no longer being viable?

This is the reason to think about upgrading. Since the machine can't be upgraded beyond El Capitan, as newer version of applications are released, they will continually tend to support only the recent 3-4 releases of an OS. So Catalina - 4, puts you right now at El Cap. Once Big Sur is out, or after the one after that, it'll be High Sierra and now you are stuck.

Additionally, there have been no security updates to El Cap and that's a risk.

In the days of yore, when you were wholly reliant on offline work, it was OK to keep an old machine around stuck on an OS lost in time since it wasn't interfacing to many other things around it. Today, the computer is largely a conduit to things outside of it and as such trying to stay relatively up to date is a lot more important.

Unlike those who upgrade their machines every couple of years, you've gotten a good 12 years out of this machine and gotten your money's worth as it were. So, not a bad idea to think about upgrading to perhaps a MBP 13" or even Macbook Air based on the light workflow defined.

From a cost perspective, both of those options are going to be cheaper than the 15"/16" MBP.

 

[ferrarr]

The difficulties accessing websites, are just beginning. They will grow exponentially from here.

 

[allen-uk]

Thanks each. Old age and eyesight might dictate future screen size staying at 15". I'll have a look at the ads.

Looking at refurbs in the UK, which run from around £1000 to £1800 for very late models. The 2015 models seem okay, although the dealer does talk about 'minor screen faults' - but one big thing to me is that they don't seem to have usb connections? Is this true? Mrs A doesn't like trackpads (know what she means), so uses a wireless mouse which of course needs a usb socket for its transmitter.

A

 

[Raz0rEdge]

Starting around the 2015 or so models, the MBP's are all USB-C only. But if a wireless mouse is required, just use any Bluetooth enabled mouse or Magic Mouse and you don't need to worry about the USB ports.

 

[MacInWin]

I have a 15" MBPr mid-2015. It has two USB 3 ports. Plus others. Apple didn't start eliminating ports to concentrate on USB-c until later. So if you can find a good 2015, it should do you for a number of years.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Thanks each. Old age and eyesight might dictate future screen size staying at 15". I'll have a look at the ads.

Looking at refurbs in the UK, which run from around £1000 to £1800 for very late models. The 2015 models seem okay, although the dealer does talk about 'minor screen faults' - but one big thing to me is that they don't seem to have usb connections? Is this true? Mrs A doesn't like trackpads (know what she means), so uses a wireless mouse which of course needs a usb socket for its transmitter.

Before you jump on a later model refurb, there are a couple things to consider. Apple implemented a keyboard design using a "butterfly" mechanism that is widely reviled and highly prone to failure. They did finally extend the warranty for repairs to that particular flaw, but it won't last indefinitely. The flaw aside, many people, myself include, simply don't LIKE the way the keys even feel. I've gotten used to it on my 2019 MacBook Air, but I by no means LIKE it. And the arrow keys I utterly loathe due to the layout. Now, Apple did finally throw in the towel and reverted back to the more reliable scissor-style keyboard design, and I believe that is used in the 2020 line across the board. But the butterflys started rolling out in 2015 and I believe were in all models by the end of 2016. So this is something to keep in mind before you buy used or refurb and wind up regretting it.

Another thing to consider is that Apple is about to make a HUGE platform change from Intel to their own CPU architecture. New MacBooks featuring these should be coming next year. Now, most of us wouldn't recommend buying the first generation of new hardware like this, but your wife's needs seem pretty modest. Depending on your budget, if you can afford new, I would suggest waiting on these to come out, just to help avoid falling behind too quickly. Or wait on these to come out, then get a deal on the current Intel models instead when they go on sale, or refurbs of the current last-gen Intel models are available.

 

[MacInWin]

My mid-2015 MBPr 15" does not have the butterfly keyboard. That was, I think, introduced in 2016 models not 2015. So a 2015 15" should be good for the keyboard. One issue the 2015's did have was a dodgy battery in a few of them. Apple offered replacement, so make sure if you look at a 2015 that the battery is not swollen. You can check that by looking at the case, particularly across the case between the keyboard and the trackpad. It should be perfectly flat. You can check it with a ruler or straightedge.

 

[allen-uk]

Thanks for both clearing up things, and of course complicating matters. A few years ago (when running a business) I used to pooh-pooh all that 'wait and see' stuff and just dive in and buy what I wanted. Nowadays, without the benefit of money, the decision is a bit more difficult! But your pointers are very useful.

 

[Lifeisabeach]

My mid-2015 MBPr 15" does not have the butterfly keyboard. That was, I think, introduced in 2016 models not 2015. So a 2015 15" should be good for the keyboard. One issue the 2015's did have was a dodgy battery in a few of them. Apple offered replacement, so make sure if you look at a 2015 that the battery is not swollen. You can check that by looking at the case, particularly across the case between the keyboard and the trackpad. It should be perfectly flat. You can check it with a ruler or straightedge.

Well it does depend on which exact MacBook. I should have pulled up a list of models that had them. Here's what should be the complete list from Apple's site. The MacBook Air didn't get it until 2018, it seems. You are correct about the 15" MBP in particular also:

Keyboard Service Program for MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro - Apple Support

Keyboard Service Program for MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro

support.apple.com

 

[chscag]

If you're retired and spend a lot of time at home, you probably should consider an iMac instead of another portable Mac (MacBook Pro, Air, so on). Not only do the iMacs have a larger and easier screen to view, but you avoid the keyboard mess and battery difficulties.

Something to think about?

 

[krs]

Can't update any further past El Capitan, due to its age. Not usually a problem, but some recent revises to Safari appear to be absent from her Safari 11, which made getting into her bank account a bit difficult recently (although if she went in through Firefox or Chrome she had no problems).

Of the main browsers for the Mac,Safari is the one that pushes the hardest trying to move people to a later macOS and thus hopefully a sale of a new Mac.
MacOS10.11, ElCapitan, is still supported on the latest version of both Chrome and the Brave Browser (Brave being recommended by some in this forum) an Firefox supports macOS10.11 as well, just not with the latest version.
12 years is a pretty healthy age for a laptop, Windows laptops my family used to have were lucky to last 3 years, but I personally would continue using it unless there are some hardware issues or software that I nneded was not compatible.

 

[krs]

If you're retired and spend a lot of time at home, you probably should consider an iMac instead of another portable Mac (MacBook Pro, Air, so on). Not only do the iMacs have a larger and easier screen to view, but you avoid the keyboard mess and battery difficulties.

Something to think about?

For a desktop, I would also throw a MacMini into the mix

 

[Lifeisabeach]

Honestly folks, if everything she's doing is through a web browser and she's happy otherwise, does she really NEED a new Mac, or should she just migrate from Safari to Firefox or Brave and make sure she's using a good adblocker and has VirusBarrier or DetectX installed for good measure?

 

[chscag]

For a desktop, I would also throw a MacMini into the mix

The only problem with that recommendation is that the Mini is going to need a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. A new iMac provides all of that and a much better retina screen.

 

[Slydude]

Starting around the 2015 or so models, the MBP's are all USB-C only. But if a wireless mouse is required, just use any Bluetooth enabled mouse or Magic Mouse and you don't need to worry about the USB ports.

That's true but it's probably not a huge issue. I just grabbed a USB hub that provides all the ports that would otherwise be missing on the models that only have USB C. The price range on these things extends from thrifty to ridiculous.

I think in the modern Mac climate it's more important to grab the amount of memory and disk space one is likely to need since fewer and fewer models are user upgradeable.

 

[krs]

The only problem with that recommendation is that the Mini is going to need a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. A new iMac provides all of that and a much better retina screen.

Yes - that is obviously true.
All depends what ones requirements are.
I like to pick my own screen, I also never seem to have enough USB ports.
And I don't like clutter on my desk with additional USB hubs
So right now I have the four USB ports on the Mini plus four USB ports built into the monitor plus the two USB ports on the Mac keyboard, all used.
I just find that the Mini is a Mac option that is often overlooked.

 

[IWT]

Not only do the iMacs have a larger and easier screen to view, but you avoid the keyboard mess and battery difficulties.

And they are cheaper, on a spec for spec basis, than a MacBook

Ian

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Honestly folks, if everything she's doing is through a web browser and she's happy otherwise, does she really NEED a new Mac, or should she just migrate from Safari to Firefox or Brave and make sure she's using a good adblocker and has VirusBarrier or DetectX installed for good measure?

I think that the browser problem is a non-issue. There are plenty of third-party browsers that will run on your old Mac, and meet modern, or close enough to modern, standards.

I think that you can keep on using that old Mac for several more years yet. But there are two things that you have to be concerned about with such an old Mac.

The first is file formats. If you use any applications with proprietary file formats where the format changes in more recent versions of the app, or the app itself is discontinued, you have to worry about your files being readable if you ever intend to move to a new(er) Mac, and/or that other users that you might send files to can open them. Users of WriteNow, MacWrite, and AppleWorks can tell you that if you don't pay attention that you might end up with files that nothing modern can open.

The second thing is even more important. You have a 12 year old rotating disk hard drive (RDHD). RDHD's become unacceptably unreliable (statistically) after about 4 to 5 years. Yours is three times as old as that. You *need* to have a really good, meticulously maintained backup system for your old RDHD. That might cost you about $150 (U.S.). If you don't already have such a backup system in place...the money might be better used to purchase a nice refurbished Mac.

It's up to you, but I purchased a pre-butterfly keyboard refurbished MBP for less than $400 (U.S.) that showed up looking like new and I think that it was a steal.

I also have a 12 year old iMac. With some routine maintenance, it is running like a top and I intend to keep on using it for a few more years. (It runs legacy software that I can't replace.) When it dies one day I'll just attach it's clone backup to another Mac in my office.

Good luck!

 

[allen-uk]

She doesn't stick her portable under her arm and march off into the world, but she does sometimes migrate from living room to bedroom or to kitchen, so the iMac/Macmini routes are not on. She wants a laptop. (Funnily enough, I went through some iMacs and ended up with a MacMini, but I stay in one place).

The 2015/later split is very interesting. If we do hit that road, I'll make sure it's 2015 at the latest.

We both got out of rotating metal several years back, and each has an SSD upgrade, her in the Macbook, me in the Mini (and as it happens in our external back up drives).

Thanks for all the pointers and warnings. They have been a great help.


Allen.