Snow Leopard VS. Lion

[Groovetube]

Chas is 100% correct. All Intel Macs will run Snow Leopard. Lion cut out Core Duo Macs. ML will cut out a few C2D Macs.

is there a list yet on which CD2? I'd be ticked if apple can't support the mini I bought just a few years back. (1.83)

 

[chas_m]

Groovetube: do you mean is there a list of machines that are supported by Lion? If so, here you go:

Which Macs are compatible with Mac OS X 10.7 "Lion"? Which Macs are not compatible? Can incompatible Macs be "hacked" or upgraded to run Mac OS X 10.7 "Lion"? @ EveryMac.com

(Your C2D Mac mini is supported)

Or did you mean supported by Mountain Lion? The key with that is not so much the processor but the graphics. If your older machine isn't supported (and I doubt it is), it's because it's using the low-end Intel graphics chipsets like GMA950.

The two different models of C2D Intel Mac minis with a 1.83GHz processor I could find (2006 and mid-2007) are not supported under Mountain Lion because they both rely on the Intel GMA 950, but both should run Lion (the 2006 model, limited to 2GB of RAM, may struggle a bit -- the mid-2007 model can use up to 3.3GHz of RAM and IME works pretty well with Lion).

But let's be fair here -- your Mac mini is over five years old. It should not come as a shock that it can't run Mountain Lion. This has been par for the course for decades now. Snow Leopard and Lion should be well-supported in terms of usability for some time to come, so I should think you would have little trouble keeping those machines fairly up-to-date for another couple of years.

 

[Groovetube]

no, mountain lion.

I bought the mini originally about 3 years ago on apple's refurb store. It can hold 3gigs of ram. I'd be a little surprised it can't run the current OS, that would seem a little much to me that a core2duo can't run a current OS.

But that's just me.

 

[pigoo3]

...that would seem a little much to me that a core2duo can't run a current OS.

It's not the Core 2 Duo cpu that's the limiting factor (although it is a requirement...just like it is with Lion)...it's the video hardware. Mountain Lion seems to have some semi-steep video hardware requirements (which we rarely ever see a video requirement for a Mac OS version).

http://osxdaily.com/2012/02/16/os-x-10-8-mountain-lion-system-requirements/

But since ML has not been released yet...so we need to wait to see what the official system requirements are for ML.

- Nick

 

[Groovetube]

It's not the Core 2 Duo cpu that's the limiting factor (although it is a requirement)...it's the video hardware. Mountain Lion seems to have some semi-steep video hardware requirements (which we rarely ever see a video requirement for a Mac OS version).

But since ML has not been released yet...so we need to wait to see what the official system requirements are for ML.

- Nick

that's what I gather. Seems nuts to me that you have a system with a core2 duo but a crappy video card.

Guess we'll see when they release details.

 

[pigoo3]

Seems nuts to me that you have a system with a core2 duo but a crappy video card.

It's not really that surprising. Almost all Mac-mini models (since 2006), all of the white MacBooks, and the low-end 13" MacBook Pro's all have relatively "crappy" integrated video hardware (these are all lower end/lower cost systems)...so they only have integrated video hardware to save $$$.

Newer Mac-Mini models (since 2009) with "newer crappy" video hardware will be supported. It's just the pre-2009 Mac-mini's with "older crappy" video hardware are potentially not supported.

Heck...I recently sold a 17" MacBook Pro from 2008...with a 256meg Radeon X1600 dedicated video card/hardware...and it barely made the ML cut.

- Nick

 

[Groovetube]

I guess not. But jeez. a 3ish year old mini can't run the latest? (potentially not getting up in arms until I see a final)

I'd be surprised if it didn't make the list. 5 or6+ years, not surprised.

 

[Dysfunction]

It's not a 3 year old mini though (regardless of when it was purchased). It's a mid 2007.

 

[pigoo3]

I guess not. But jeez. a 3ish year old mini can't run the latest? (potentially not getting up in arms until I see a final)

I'd be surprised if it didn't make the list. 5 or6+ years, not surprised.

I agree completely. If your Mac-mini is only a 3 year-old model...I would be "ticked" as well!

- Nick

p.s. I know that you mentioned that it was a refurb....so maybe is is a bit older than 3 years...but still...a bummer if it is not supported with ML.

 

[Groovetube]

It's not a 3 year old mini though (regardless of when it was purchased). It's a mid 2007.

That may be technical point, but, I did buy it from the apple store, so it's 31/2 years old to me

I think the main point here though, I'd be surprised if the cutoff for ML was that close.

It wouldn't be the first time I raised my fist in the air and cursed 'dam you apple!"

and warmed my visa card again like a good apple bunny.

 

[pigoo3]

That may be technical point, but, I did buy it from the apple store, so it's 31/2 years old to me

I mentioned this in a post at the end of the last page (maybe it was missed). Since this is a refurb. Mac-mini...it certainly could be more than 3 years old. Many models usually don't get on the refurb. page...until they are replaced by a newer model. There was a point from August, 2007 till March, 2009 where the Mac-Mini lineup wasn't updated.

If your Mac-Mini falls into that timeframe...then technically (from an evolutionary stand point)...it basically falls into the "5 Year-Old" computer category (August 7, 2007 to July 9, 2012)...approx. 4 years, 11 months, 2 days.

Even by your own admission (since this Mac-Mini is a 5-6 year-old computer)...you mentioned you could understand it not being supported by Mountain Lion.

- Nick

 

[Groovetube]

When ML comes out, it'll have barely hit 5.

I would be surprised. Perhaps the earlier gen of this mini.

But after having run computers for a couple decades now, it seems to me the timeframe for support is getting shorter, and shorter.


Again it's merely my point of view, and no amount of ranting on my part will likely change much. I tend to upgrade my computers more often than most people, so I'm least likely to be outraged by shorter cutoff times than many users.

Actually my plan was to give this mini to my sister who can use it, I'd rather give her one that can run the latest, so I may need to trade this one up. Guess I'll wait and see the final list (unless there is one I haven't seen)

 

[Dysfunction]

Ok, so why do you NEED ML anyway?


I still do not have Lion installed on my 08mbp, and I have no intention to. There's nothing it's missing (other than the iCloud stuff). I'd have to go back and look, but as I recall, if you'd bought a Mac in 2005 you would have lost complete support for Snow Leopard. Which was substantially shorter than 2007 > 2012.

BTW, industry wide.. new function is typically linked to new(er) equipment. This isn't just the case on the consumer products either, it's true all the way up to enterprise level stuff. It's pretty simple, you make hardware.. you NEED to sell it to stay afloat in the market. Doesn't matter who you are either.

 

[Groovetube]

hmm. I'm pretty sure it was just the powerPC macs that lost support for SL.

I don't need ML, but I just was hoping this mini would have some longer legs for my sister, who'll likely use it for a long time.

Still strikes me odd that a core2duo system might lose support, even with it's 'crappy video'. Again, my opinion. Perhaps I'm getting old.

 

[cwa107]

hmm. I'm pretty sure it was just the powerPC macs that lost support for SL.

All Intel Macs work with Snow Leopard.

I don't need ML, but I just was hoping this mini would have some longer legs for my sister, who'll likely use it for a long time.

Sure it will. Leopard (10.5, released in 2007) is still actively supported. So, you should get at least a few years out of Lion on that machine. I don't see why future OS versions not supporting it will degrade its usefulness.

Still strikes me odd that a core2duo system might lose support, even with it's 'crappy video'. Again, my opinion. Perhaps I'm getting old.

Hard to say - my only guess is that ML will have some kind of graphics capability that the older Intel integrated chips just don't support.

 

[Groovetube]

well it's merely given me something to crap about today.

 

[cwa107]

well it's merely given me something to crap about today.

Well, I think it's something you kind of have to put in perspective... the machine fulfills the same needs it did the day you pulled it out of the box. Your perception of its capability has changed because of subsequent updates - but the reality is, the machine works every bit as well as it did before.

 

[Groovetube]

I know. I still have a G4 upgraded downstairs in my studio that runs pro tools. And an early gen iMac that runs logic. You're preaching to the choir.

But these kids want the latest that runs everything iCloud blah blah, the 14 year old specifically wants to run ML when it comes out. Guess I could give it to them and say well it runs lion, good luck. Being the pushover uncle I am, and wanting them to have a good mac experience to get rid of their malware laden pos peecee, I'll probably trade this up.

Anyway, I didn't intend to harp on this, nothing changes my surprise if this isn't supported.

 

[cwa107]

I know. I still have a G4 upgraded downstairs in my studio that runs pro tools. And an early gen iMac that runs logic. You're preaching to the choir.

But these kids want the latest that runs everything iCloud blah blah, the 14 year old specifically wants to run ML when it comes out. Guess I could give it to them and say well it runs lion, good luck.

Anyway, I didn't intend to harp on this, nothing changes my surprise if this isn't supported.

I hear ya. As a matter of fact, we just bought a 4th generation iPod Touch for my 7-year-old, because his well-worn 2nd generation iPod Touch won't run some of the games that mommy's iPhone 4S will.

 

[pigoo3]

I'd have to go back and look, but as I recall, if you'd bought a Mac in 2005 you would have lost complete support for Snow Leopard. Which was substantially shorter than 2007 > 2012.

hmm. I'm pretty sure it was just the powerPC macs that lost support for SL.

All Apple Intel-based computers were released January, 2006 or later. So any Apple computer purchased in 2005 would have been a PPC computer.

Due to release dates of some of the Intel models...some PPC computers did continue to be sold into 2006. For example, the last Powermac G5 model wasn't discontinued until August, 2006.

- 2005 = All Apple computers were PPC
- 2006 = A mix of PPC & Intel models were sold
- 2007 = All new models were Intel (possibly some PPC models were sold as refurbished)

Believe it or not...Snow Leopard (OS 10.6) wasn't released until August, 2009. So until early August, 2009...ALL Apple computers (PPC & Intel) were running OS 10.5.x or lower.

Another (believe it or not). The original shipping OS for a 2007 Mac-Mini...was Tiger (OS 10.4.10)! That would mean that a 2007 Mac-Mini (if it were compatible with 10.8 Mountain Lion)...would be compatible with 5 major OS upgrades (this doesn't happen very often)...10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8 (if it were compatible with 10.8).

I'm just mentioning this for clarity.

- Nick