Random shutdowns - Macbook Pro 15" early 2013

[EngineEar1]

Hello,

I was recently given a Macbook Pro 15" Early 2013. 16GB RAM. I'm suffering repeated instant crashes/shutdowns. Here are all the symptoms I see:

1. It most often occurs either very soon after starting, sometimes before I have completed entering the password.
2. The second most frequent is if I've left the machine for a while, but less time than the display off or sleep mode kicks in.
3. I have run Memtest 86 multiple times, over 24 hour periods. No RAM failures at all are reported.
4. The OS is a clean install of Catalina. I also use Windows 10 via Bootcamp, but the crashes started before I added that. I haven't seen the crashes in Windows, but I don't boot into it very often.
5. The logs show a Previous Shutdown reason of -128.
6. It pretty much never shuts down in use. Only within a very short time (<30s) of starting, or if left idle for 10 minutes or so,
7. It had hardly been used. The battery showed a cycle count of about 300.
8. There was literally no dust inside it. The fans work fine. I have renewed the thermal compound. Running temps can get up to 95 degrees C occasionally, but from Internet research, this doesn't seem unusual for this model. The heat pipe seems super small for something generating this much heat, though!
9. The SMC and PRAM/NVRAM have all been reset, more than once.
10. When it happens, the mouse cursor, and everything else, as far as I can tell, freezes. Then it either shuts down and restarts, or just shuts down.

I'm out of ideas as to where to look now. Anything anyone could suggest would be much appreciated. I have been a diehard, and happy, Windows user since 3.1. But, since using this Mac I get it - They're fabulous. I really hope I can resolve this problem.

Thank you for reading this far.

Edit - Scratch 6 - It literally locked and shut down about one minute after I made my post - It must be sentient, with a wicked sense of humour - I've been using it lots for the last week, and it's not previously crashed in use. I can't risk it crashing, as the plan is for it to run real time audio software, live. A lockup would be very uncomfortable.

2022-06-10 12:51:25.116837+0100 0x12bbf    Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: 5
2022-06-10 16:46:28.036480+0100 0xb7       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128
2022-06-10 19:28:21.856907+0100 0xb7       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128
2022-06-10 19:30:37.843382+0100 0xb8       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128
2022-06-10 21:52:00.063027+0100 0xb7       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128
2022-06-10 22:00:23.062940+0100 0xb7       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128
2022-06-10 22:18:16.878123+0100 0xb7       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128
2022-06-10 22:48:31.992757+0100 0xb7       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128
2022-06-10 23:45:31.077623+0100 0x56f8     Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: 5
2022-06-11 09:11:57.877329+0100 0xb7       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128
2022-06-11 11:25:57.036317+0100 0xb7       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128
2022-06-11 11:35:27.845384+0100 0xb7       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128
2022-06-11 12:08:38.062272+0100 0xb7       Default     0x0                  0      0    kernel: (AppleSMC) Previous shutdown cause: -128

 

[ferrarr]

Two things to try;

1) Create a new/clean user account for testing purposes, or
2) Try safe mode boot to see if the problem still exists?

 

[RadioFlyer]

How is the battery? Is it shutting down because the battery or its connection is not working correctly?

 

[EngineEar1]

Two things to try;

1) Create a new/clean user account for testing purposes, or
2) Try safe mode boot to see if the problem still exists?

Thank you. It has happened before I even start to type the password. Does that mean that it's not account specific?

I've now restarted in Safe Mode, and will leave it idle. Fingers crossed!

 

[EngineEar1]

How is the battery? Is it shutting down because the battery or its connection is not working correctly?t

Thanks for suggestion. The battery seems pretty good. I get over four hours use from a full charge.

But the crashes happen regardless of whether it's running on battery or with the power adapter connected.

 

[Rod]

We seem to hear about this issue quite frequently with early model Mac's, they work perfectly when they are working then for no apparent reason shut down.
Other users have found the same results from testing all of the obvious causes, battery, background apps, peripherals, overheating with no apparent cause.
I personally had this problem with a 13" 2015 MBP which I managed to keep under control using a utility called Amphetamine which prevents the CPU from sleeping during times of inactivity but that doesnt seem to be a universal remedy.
To eliminate any software issue one really needs to erase the HD and install a fresh copy of the Operating System and user preferences from scratch. Maybe you have already done that.
That would leave harder to check items like the power circuit. None of which is much help I'm afraid.

 

[EngineEar1]

We seem to hear about this issue quite frequently with early model Mac's, they work perfectly when they are working then for no apparent reason shut down.
Other users have found the same results from testing all of the obvious causes, battery, background apps, peripherals, overheating with no apparent cause.
I personally had this problem with a 13" 2015 MBP which I managed to keep under control using a utility called Amphetamine which prevents the CPU from sleeping during times of inactivity but that doesnt seem to be a universal remedy.
To eliminate any software issue one really needs to erase the HD and install a fresh copy of the Operating System and user preferences from scratch. Maybe you have already done that.
That would leave harder to check items like the power circuit. None of which is much help I'm afraid.

Hello,

Thank you for your reply. I did the Safe Mode check, as suggested previously. No change. I returned to it about 20 minutes later and it had shut down.

I agree. A complete wipe and restore is the logical next step. I'll try Amphetamine in the meantime. Maybe that will help.

Thanks again.

 

[EngineEar1]

Hi again,

I tried Amphetamine. No change, sadly. But, I found this...

Fix MacBook Pro Random Shutdown - One Click Solution

One Click utility to stop this widespread issue on your MacBook Pro. Stop the random shutdown in less than 30 seconds.

realmacmods.com

It sounds tantalisingly similar to my problem. But, does the util run before the login? Because I see this problem before the password has been entered, too. I've emailed to ask.

I'll update when there is anything new.

 

[EngineEar1]

Well, it's early days, but the Macbook, left idle for seven hours after installing NOCRASH, remained up and running! This is unprecedented. Previously, if I walked away for less than ten minutes, it would have definitely crashed.

It's not absolutely guaranteed fixed, but it's a good indicator.

I'll figure out a way to run NOCRASH at system start, rather than after login. If anyone knows, please tell me! If not, I'll post back with what I find out.

Things are looking good. It seems that my hunch that it was a hardware problem was right, but fortunately there's a software 'fix'.

 

[Rod]

I believe this is what Amphetamine is supposed to do albeit indirectly. Did you instal the Amphetamine helper app? I did, only because I had nothing to loose, I was o/seas with no remaining options at the time. Luckily I was able to leave my MBP on pretty much all the time. So long as I did that I had virtually no problems.

To answer your question you will need to add the app to Login Items. Go to system Preferences > Users and Groups, click on Login Items tab (top) and the Plus Button down the bottom to Add a New Item. It will then launch as soon as you login.

 

[EngineEar1]

Hi. I was coincidentally re-checking it as your message arrived. I did try Amphetamine, and it didn't solve the problem, unfortunately.

I took a chance on the $10 cost of NOCRASH, and I'm very glad I did. The machine has now been up for 22.5 hours so far, with a combination of heavy use, no use, playing YouTube videos, sleep, idle, battery, external power, etc. Not a single glitch. It's been flawless. Previously, it would have almost certainly crashed within about 10 minutes of not being used.

I think it's fixed! I will remove NOCRASH, to see if the crashing returns. But, so far, NOCRASH seems pretty miraculous.

Regarding the run at startup, I have added it to Login Items, but I need it to run at system start (as I had loads of crashes before/during entering the login password). It looks like I need to use 'launchd' to run it as a daemon at boot time.

Thanks for your continued engagement. I'll update with the result of returning to the machine without NOCRASH, and also with what I need to do to run at boot.

 

[Rod]

So having read the article on the No Crash developer's site it seems to indicate that adding the utility to Login Items should be sufficient. Its hard to imagine a CPU core would drop into that low power state while booting. I'm not saying it couldn't just seems like it would be peak CPU activity.
Having said that if it's working while the device is on seems to suggest it's hitting the mark. I mentioned I never turned mine off because the only problems I had after installing Amphetamine (and it's helper app) were, like you, during startup but it was intermittent and at the rare occasion where I did shut down I held my breath at boot until I was logged in. After that it was fine.

If this NOCRASH utility does what it claims it will be a valuable tool to all those people with the same issue, as I mentioned in my first post it does seem to be becoming more common and we only see a small percentage of those users.
My only complaint is the cost. Obviously $10.00 is not much to pay to get an otherwise working MBP up and running again but a "try before you buy approach" or a Donationware system would have been fairer.
After all Amphetamine and Amphetamine Enhancer are free.

PS. You didn't say if you installed the Amphetamine Enhancer app? See: GitHub - x74353/Amphetamine-Enhancer: Add new abilities to the macOS keep-awake utility, Amphetamine.

 

[EngineEar1]

All I can say is that, in my case, NOCRASH has fairly convincingly solved the problem...

I carried out as much debugging as I could. Nothing untoward was found. Amphetamine (with the Enhancer) didn't fix it. The crash happened before, during (as in, when typing the password) and after login.

I was pretty much resigned to the MacBook being beyond economical repair (see this thread, which is where I first came upon NOCRASH - tps://discussions.apple.om/thread/7697352?page=4) (outdated link removed)

I took a punt for £8.51 ($10)

It completely, and immediately, solved the problem. After installing it, the Macbook was up for over 32 hours, through many different usage patterns. I only shut down in order to remove NOCRASH, to confirm the fault returned...

...and return it did, reliably. Within 10 minutes of the machine being idle, it shuts down. It's done this eight times since I removed NOCRASH.

I tried Amphetamine, with the Enhancer, again. No change - problem remained.

I put NOCRASH back, and the problem is instantly fixed. It is still only added to Login Items, and the machine does still shut down, also within 10 minutes, if I don't login. But, after login, it's rock solid. I've no reason to believe that adding it as a boot time daemon won't fix this. I will report back, though.

I'd say that if someone is experiencing the same, very well documented, quite specific, behaviour, then a $10 'gamble', when the alternative is a pretty much unusable machine, isn't too awful. I can't comment on their business model. But it's a **** of a lot better than Apple replacing the logic board, which may well not fix it.

Solving this issue has been a staggeringly frustrating process. I'm an IT pro (have run my own IT hardware and software support business for over 20 years). This is probably in my top 3 'pulling my hair out' (if there was any left) cases.

 

[Rod]

Well you have certainly put it to the test an quite thoroughly proved that it works for you. I completely agree $10.00 is a cheap and incredibly convenient solution compared to circuitry replacement, probably the only other solution. I will certainly take note of the developers site for future recommendations to others with the same problem.

 

[EngineEar1]

Hi again. Just a followup...

Since installing NOCRASH 23 days ago I haven't experienced even one issue. I didn't bother installing it as a startup daemon, as I very rarely switch the machine off. Probably over 90% of the times the machine locked was before, or during, login.

I am super happy with the outcome. This old Mac is now rock solid. Thanks to everyone for all your suggestions.

 

[Rod]

That’s great to hear, thank you for getting back to these forums with the update. I will definitely be adding this to my knowledge base of handy tips.

 

[pm-r]

Since installing NOCRASH 23 days ago I haven't experienced even one issue.

... ... ...
I am super happy with the outcome. This old Mac is now rock solid. Thanks to everyone for all your suggestions.

I am sure many that read this will be thanking you for your comments regarding the utility, and nice to hear that such a utility works, but as mentioned a trial would have been a nicer method.

Maybe Apple should be hiring him as an Apple development software engineer.


- Patrick
=======