Questions about iCloud

[stefanmaine]

I have upgraded to Big Sur from Catalina. Went fine, works fine. As always, I am grateful for the guidance provided by the comments of various “experts” here on this subject (and others).

At some point in the upgrade process, there appeared a pop-up informing me I have used 50% of the free iCloud space. I have never – until today – paid any attention to iCloud. I went to System Preferences>Apple ID>iCloud Drive, and from there wandered around. I discovered that apparently iCloud has been making copies of virtually everything I have done on this Mac since, well, I guess since I purchased it in 2017.

Right clicking on something produced this: “The documents stored in the top level of your iCloud Drive folder take up 3.6 GB. To free up storage, open iCloud Drive in Finder and delete documents.” Well, I did a little of that, and discovered that the documents I deleted presumably from “the top level of your iCloud Drive folder,” simultaneously deleted those documents from Finder>Go>Documents. Fortunately, I had copies on a Flash drive, but huh?

I also discovered that iCloud has somewhere 27.7 MB off my iPhone. What files off my iPhone? Voice?

iCloud has apparently also been copying everything I have done on Pixelmator Pro, about which iCloud informs me that if I delete iCloud’s copies of those files, “All ‘Pixelmator Pro’ documents and data will be deleted immediately from iCloud and all of your devices…” (emphasis mine)

Isn't my Mac one of my “devices”? And if so, will deleting files from iCloud simultaneously delete those files at Finder>Go>Documents?

I don’t think I like iCloud. I routinely copy everything at Finder>Go>Documents onto two different Flash drives, so I am not sure I need iCloud. And when I delete a file from the Flash drive, the file doesn’t automatically get deleted off of "all your devices". Just the Flash drive copy gets deleted. So, my questions:

Is there a way to delete everything iCloud has copied without simultaneously deleting the same files anywhere/everywhere else? In other words, can I scrub “… your iCloud Drive folder”?

And then, is there a way to turn off iCloud altogether?

Thank you.

 

[IWT]

This is what I think has happened. When you upgraded to macOS 11 Big Sur (BS), your Documents and Desktop Folders got optimised and stored in iCloud.

Can you check the following for me please, but DON'T change anything yet. As you found out, deleting Documents removed them from your Mac!

Open System Preferences > Click on Apple ID. Is Optimise Mac Storage ticked? It's at the bottom.

Next, is iCloud Drive ticked? And if it is, there will be an "Options" box along to the right of it. Click on "Options".

Is there a Tick on Documents and Folders?

Answers to these questions are critical. We can guide you as to how to undo these changes without losing your data.

And please DON'T delete anything in iCloud yet and DON'T turn Off iCloud yet.

Ian

 

[stefanmaine]

"... but DON'T change anything yet"
As I wrote earlier, after reading the "pop-up informing me I have used 50% of the free iCloud" I wandered around a bit trying to find out what that might mean to me (other than having to pay for more storage space, which the pop-up offered as an option). Regrettably, I did that before talking with you, and so I probably did change some of the settings while trying to find out what they were and meant.

However, I haven't lost any document files because, as I wrote above, I have two Flash drives each of which has all my Documents, and I made sure both were current before I upgraded to 11.2.2. As for any other damage I may have caused ...

The attached two files should answer your questions, except "Is there a Tick on Documents and Folders?" Actually, on my Mac it reads "Desktop and Document Folders" but I am guessing your error is a typo. There is not a tick on it now, but I am nearly certain there was originally.

Also, as for all the unchecked items (Photos, Mail, Contacts, Calendars ...) I have never put anything in any of those, except maybe "Home" -- I don't think I know what that means on the Mac. So, there was nothing in any of those to lose. I suspect you are wondering, what the *** does he have a computer for if he doesn't put anything on it? Yea, well, for email I use a Gmail account on Postbox; for contacts, stocks, etc. I use Softmaker office and LibreOffice; for art work I use Pixelmator and GIMP; for html work I use BBedit; and none of those seem to me to be in (fingers crossed) iCloud's domain.

 

[IWT]

Regrettably, I did that before talking with you, and so I probably did change some of the settings while trying to find out what they were and meant.

However, I haven't lost any document files because, as I wrote above, I have two Flash drives each of which has all my Documents

There is not a tick on it now, but I am nearly certain there was originally.

First off. I don't ever judge.

You are lucky that you copied all your Documents etc to a Flash Drive because you could have lost the lot - or maybe not all because there is a convoluted way of recovering some of them back.

I believe that the ticked boxes are the default when you upgrade to macOS 11 Big Sur (BS). Whether so, or or not, you got caught out - no fault of your own. But then you un-ticked them. Again, no blame, but that changed everything; which is why the Documents disappeared.

Ideally, you should untick "Optimise Mac Storage, if ticked; and you have already un-ticked the "Desktop and Document Folders".

What I suggest is that you check that absolutely everything is in its place. No losses. From wherever, including the Desktop.

Only then, can you relax. And only then can you recover any data from iCloud - if there is any.

Finally, you can close/shut down iCloud if that is what you want.

Lastly, I have to acknowledge that Jake (MacInWin) is our expert on this as he has had to deal with difficulties such as yours, on many occasions. I think, given your foresight in keeping copies of your Desktop and Documents, there is unlikely to be any more problems.

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Ian

 

[stefanmaine]

Update: I just looked in my Mac's Trash, and there found the few files that I deleted when informed that "... the top level of your iCloud Drive folder take up 3.6 GB. To free up storage, open iCloud Drive in Finder and delete documents." So, backups of those files were/are on my Flash drive, but also actually in the Trash, put there by iCloud. So, again, I have not lost anything. I am glad for that.

Thanks.

 

[stefanmaine]

What I suggest is that you check that absolutely everything is in its place. No losses. From wherever, including the Desktop.

I have done (am doing) that, and I am virtually certain that the few files I deleted (or caused iCloud to delete) are home again.

...you should untick "Optimise Mac Storage, if ticked; and you have already un-ticked the "Desktop and Document Folders".

I will.

And I will do nothing else. If MacInWin comments, I will take his advice.

What started all this was the Mac telling me I have used 50% of my free space. That's half the space in four years. Presumably I have to go another four years before I get a bill for more space. I am an old man. In four years, who knows?

Thank you for your help. It was immediate and clear.

 

[MacInWin]

Ian has given you great advice. Nothing to add.

What happens when you put a check by "Optimize" or "Desktop and Documents" is that everything in your Desktop folder and Documents folder from your home folder is copied to the iCloud storage online and then replace on your internal drive with links to where they are online. Then when you ask for a document, it's downloaded from iCloud, and when you are done, it is sent back to iCloud. Apple does tend to set that as a default on new installations, so it's good to check it as soon as the installation is complete and set what you want.

Theoretically, if you checked those boxes and then unchecked them, you should be given an opportunity to download all of those documents from the cloud to your Mac, but it seems erratic in operation. I think, personally, that if there are other devices linked to the same iCloud drive, it doesn't offer the download. That sort of makes sense, as the other devices need the documents in the cloud. I don't have any knowledge of that, it's pure speculation on my part.

But in your case, you have the documents stored on externals, so you should be good to go.

 

[stefanmaine]

Thank you.
For now, I will leave everything at System Preferences>Apple ID>Apps on The Mac Using iCloud unchecked, and continue regularly to keep my two Flash drives current.

I will continue to review your advice and IWT's and read about iCloud, and maybe switch to that over time.

 

[MacInWin]

For any portable, I would personally recommend against it. If you are anywhere with the portable that has poor Internet access, your documents and desktop may not be available to you, or may be so slow that you can't really work well. For a desktop, maybe it makes sense, but only if you have not only a good internet connection, but maybe even a backup access with good speed. In a city with 5G and good internet, if the the ISP fails, you can shift over to the iPhone as an access through 5G. But in a rural area without high speed 5G? Not for me, thanks, even if my ISP is reasonable.

 

[stefanmaine]

... everything in your Desktop folder and Documents folder from your home folder is copied to the iCloud storage online and then replace on your internal drive with links to where they are online. Then when you ask for a document, it's downloaded from iCloud, and when you are done, it is sent back to iCloud.

For any portable, I would personally recommend against it.

I am in rural Maine, where the only guarantee is: you'll love it here. Power outages and internet signal lapses and interruptions of other 21st Century delights are, uh, not infrequent.

Thank you for the clarification. IWT was right. You are a good and welcome source of advice!

 

[MacInWin]

Thank you for the clarification. IWT was right. You are a good and welcome source of advice!

Don't know about that, but happy to help out. Given where you are and the state of your connectivity, I agree that it would be wise not to use the "Optimize" or "Desktop and Documents" options. Those two work fine in Cupertino, maybe not so well in the real world.