PowerMac G3 system re-install help needed.

[Crumbly]

Okay, promise not to laugh... I've got a 1998 PowerMac G3 that's not been used for ages and I thought I'd see if there were any takers on eBay, so I could free up some space here. It's in great condition as it's only had approx. 20 hours per week single user home office use from when it was bought new in Feb 1998 to June 2003. Then a change to a different line of work meant it only had minimal use until around June 2019. Everything works apart from the Zip drive and it would be sold with original keyboard and mouse. Not the Apple monitor - that sadly burnt out ages ago, to be replaced by a 'Tiny' 16 inch with major curvature to the glass!

I recently tried running Norton Utilities and its 'Speed Disc' to hopefully fix any hard drive issues first and sort the fragmentation out, but the process would only go so far, with a 'bad block' message. For the sake of security anyway, I'd like to erase the hard disc (which I'm assuming will deal with the bad blocks?) and re-install the system software - how do I go about this? I've still got the original System (OS 8.5) disc.

Also, what's the legal situation with selling a computer (or CDs) with copies of out-of-date programs on? I'm talking the usual graphics packages; Quark / FreeHand / PhotoShop, etc. They're all really old versions (Quark is 3.32, PhotoShop is 5.0) but I don't really want any grief with the Piracy Police!

Thanks for any tips.

 

[Raz0rEdge]

The HD on that machine is likely busted or won't last very long. If anyone is actually interested in this antique machine, you should remove the HDD and destroy is safely and let the buyer put their own drive in it. With the original disk they can re-install the OS and off you go.

Generally you cannot sell your machine with commercial software unless you can properly transfer ownership to the new owners, regardless of how old the software is.

 

[Crumbly]

The HD on that machine is likely busted or won't last very long. If anyone is actually interested in this antique machine, you should remove the HDD and destroy is safely and let the buyer put their own drive in it. With the original disk they can re-install the OS and off you go.

Generally you cannot sell your machine with commercial software unless you can properly transfer ownership to the new owners, regardless of how old the software is.

Sorry, but I don't get the last line 'With the original disk they can re-install the OS and off you go.' Does that mean a second user would be able to restore my old work files even if I'd erased the hard drive prior to a clean system install? I don't think the HD is anywhere near busted - The hours of use are no more than 3,000 since new and I've never needed to call a tech helpline, let alone have an engineer call. It's been no trouble at all; in contrast with a friend's G4 that needed two replacement hard drives in its first year.

Would it still be saleable with no HD in?

Thanks for the software warning!

 

[pm-r]

Would it still be saleable with no HD in?

To the right buyer for the right price, most things are saleable. But I don't think you would be inundated with calls from many buyers.

If you have wiped the drive, and especially if you have zeroed it out, it would probably be quite impossible to recover any data and I doubt if it would be worth it to even try.

That G3 Mac may need a new PRAM battery for it to boot properly, but at least plug it in for at least a day before trying to boot it. That may provide at least a surface charged to allow it to boot.


- Patrick
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[Raz0rEdge]

Sorry, but I don't get the last line 'With the original disk they can re-install the OS and off you go.' Does that mean a second user would be able to restore my old work files even if I'd erased the hard drive prior to a clean system install? I don't think the HD is anywhere near busted - The hours of use are no more than 3,000 since new and I've never needed to call a tech helpline, let alone have an engineer call. It's been no trouble at all; in contrast with a friend's G4 that needed two replacement hard drives in its first year.

Would it still be saleable with no HD in?

Thanks for the software warning!

I don't have any experience with macOS/OS X period to 10, so can't tell you exactly how, but you would presumably use the OS disk to boot into the installer. Then go into Disk Utility (assuming it was the same thing back in the day) and use it to erase your drive and then you can install the version on the freshly erased drive. Once you get to the "Welcome" page, just power down the Mac.

Now the next time the Mac is powered up, it will allow the new user to go through the setup process.

Again, I caveat all of this with my experience/knowledge of OS X 10 onward, so if 8.5 behaves differently, adjust as needed.

 

[pm-r]

Again, I caveat all of this with my experience/knowledge of OS X 10 onward, so if 8.5 behaves differently, adjust as needed.

The procedure you described above will work just fine.

The Mac system install disc(s) should also be included with the G3 at point of sale.


- Patrick
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[Crumbly]

Thanks for the tips guys.

 

[Crumbly]

Belated update and a query: Re-installation went well and it got rid of all the bad blocks, etc., so I was able to fully de-fragment HD contents via Norton Utilities Speed Disk.

Over the last few days, it's had a thorough testing and apart from the non-working Zip drive, it seems as stable as when it was new - but I'm unable to set the year correctly - the computer thinks it's 1922. This doesn't seem to be causing any problems other than picking up 'incorrect file creation / modification dates' when running Norton Utilities Disk Doctor, but I'll be putting the system up for sale soon and would like to be able to set the correct year, if possible.

(The month and time of day read correctly on every startup - it's just the year won't play ball).

 

[Slydude]

Over the last few days, it's had a thorough testing and apart from the non-working Zip drive, it seems as stable as when it was new - but I'm unable to set the year correctly - the computer thinks it's 1922. This doesn't seem to be causing any problems other than picking up 'incorrect file creation / modification dates' when running Norton Utilities Disk Doctor, but I'll be putting the system up for sale soon and would like to be able to set the correct year, if possible.

(The month and time of day read correctly on every startup - it's just the year won't play ball).

In post #4 member pm-r suggested that the machine might need a new PRAM battery. I think he is right about that. That's the most likely reason for the clock issues that you are seeing.

The parameter ram (a.k.a PRAM) stores certain basic settings such as date and time, and a few other settings, in an area of ram that is always getting power. When the machine is not connected to electrical power the PRAM battery provides the small amount of power needed to preserve these settings..

There were several models with the general designation G3. The good news is that the PRAM battery in most, if not all, of these machines was user replaceable. Can you describe the machine in a bit more detail? I know that the Blue and White G3 tower has a user replaceable battery.

The other bit of good news is that most of those PRAM batteries were cheap.

 

[pigoo3]

...but I'm unable to set the year correctly - the computer thinks it's 1922.

What Slydude mentioned is definitely on the money...need a new PRAM battery.

...but I'll be putting the system up for sale soon...

Good luck...I don't think you'll get much for it (unless you get 2 or more eBay bidders that really want it and they bid against each other).

The PRAM battery may cost you at least $5-$10 (which could be a large portion of what you sell it for). Also very likely gonna cost more to ship the computer than you will probably get for it.

But hey...if you don't need/want it...and someone else does...that's cool. Hopefully you at least break even on the deal.

Nick

 

[Crumbly]

Thanks for the reply. It's a 1998 G3 PowerMac tower - one of the last huge 'beige' square-edged models. I've just started it up following shut-down around 10:00 last evening and the date of the month is still correct, as it the time of day. Going into the 'Date & Time' control panel, the seconds tick away smoothly too.

I was wondering if it was a Y2K issue, given the age of the machine, but I've just been able to set the year to 2019 - but that's the latest it will go. Puzzling.

 

[pigoo3]

This is the style PRAM battery OP needs. About $5-$7 via OWC (macsales.com) or eBay. Could be more at other places:


Nick

 

[pigoo3]

I was wondering if it was a Y2K issue, given the age of the machine, but I've just been able to set the year to 2019 - but that's the latest it will go. Puzzling.

Not a Y2K issue.

Need a new PRAM battery.

Nick

 

[pm-r]

I've just started it up following shut-down around 10:00 last evening and the date of the month is still correct, as it the time of day. Going into the 'Date & Time' control panel, the seconds tick away smoothly too.

Don't forget that Mac will need to be connected to the Internet somehow in order for it to keep its date and time set correctly, and if the option is checked to do so in the Date and Time preference pane.

And the PRAM battery that Mac uses and needs is referred to as a 1/2 AA cell battery and usually stocked by most computer stores as they are also used with many PC Windows type computers, and should be under the $10 price mark.

Much more and you are getting gouged as many shops will try to do.




- Patrick
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[Crumbly]

UPDATE:

Firstly, apologies for droning on about this relatively minor issue, but the equipment is now nearly ready to photograph and list.

After setting the year as high as it would go (2019), I re-did a Norton Utilities test and as before, it threw up loads of 'bad file modification / creation dates', and were fixed, but a second re-test showed 'no problems found'. (Before I changed the year from 1922, it would pick up the same issues all over again, even after I'd selected 'fix all', so I guess the '1922' year was the cause?)

The problem I have with replacing the PRAM battery is that a) the 'tech info' guide that came with the computer says it's not user-replaceable and b) I know all about grounding straps, etc., prior to working on the innards, but I'm a walking Van Der Graaf generator (the device, not the band), and I'm worried about damaging delicate parts.

The machine was in its day, only just about usable for sending e-mails - even crude websites took forever to load - so my question is: if the new user won't be connecting it to the the internet, is being unable to set the year correctly a big deal?

Thanks as always for any helpful comments.

 

[Raz0rEdge]

Having an accurate time is indeed useful if not important. If a computer doesn't connect to the Internet, it's uses become very singular (i.e., running some set of applications in offline mode with nothing going in or coming out of that machine)

If you're going to sell this machine and it has flaws, beyond being ancient and largely useless in the modern world, you're not going to get a lot of takers for it.

What is your end goal with this machine anyway?

 

[pigoo3]

Firstly, apologies for droning on about this relatively minor issue, but the equipment is now nearly ready to photograph and list.

No problamo...that's why we're here...to help out.

The problem I have with replacing the PRAM battery is that a) the 'tech info' guide that came with the computer says it's not user-replaceable...

It is user replaceable (it's on the logic board). Open the computer up...verify the battery location & type. Purchase the battery...and replace it.

Nick

 

[pigoo3]

What is your end goal with this machine anyway?

Ebay

 

[Crumbly]

Having an accurate time is indeed useful if not important. If a computer doesn't connect to the Internet, it's uses become very singular (i.e., running some set of applications in offline mode with nothing going in or coming out of that machine)

If you're going to sell this machine and it has flaws, beyond being ancient and largely useless in the modern world, you're not going to get a lot of takers for it.

What is your end goal with this machine anyway?

...The only flaws are not being able to set the year past 2019 (the clock, month and date of the month all work fine - even changing the date correctly from months with 30 or 31 days in them), and the non-working Zip drive. I no longer use the system and had planned to sell it. G3s regularly make a decent price on eBay - I've even seen non-working towers only go as a 'parts or repair' listing for £80 average. I'm not that bothered about how much it goes for, as it paid for itself during the first few months I owned it. The main object of selling is de-cluttering and saying goodbye to a taunting symbol of a past, stressful life!

 

[pm-r]

The problem I have with replacing the PRAM battery is that a) the 'tech info' guide that came with the computer says it's not user-replaceable and b) I know all about grounding straps, etc., prior to working on the innards, but I'm a walking Van Der Graaf generator (the device, not the band), and I'm worried about damaging delicate parts.

I would suggest that the "Guide" you have for that matches the wrong one, and what it says about the PRAM battery is incorrect.
You shouldn't need to worry about static when changing the PRAM and Battery, but you can always use a pair of insulated pliers to pull it out of its holder and insert the new oneif you like, which is quite simple on those models:

I think those models also had a PRAM Reset switch, which if I recall correctly, it should only be pressed once and for only a second or two. Do not press multiple times or for a long time, and I can't really recall the reasons why it might need to be pressed.
It's a small quarter inch square button switch with a circular button in the middle, probably black or red.

More photos here if you need them:

PowerMac G3 replace PRAM battery image - Google Search

I was wondering why to go to all that work to make it ready for resale and was rather surprised at the prices obtained recently from some used units as shown here:

PowerMac G3 for sale | eBay

Find great deals on eBay for PowerMac G3. Shop with confidence.

www.ebay.ca

Good luck



- Patrick
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