Possibility of OS-X for PC? (Opinion)

[rman]

Also Konfabulator was model after the desktop application in the original mac OS (classic).

 

[Abdiel]

Falltime,

Are you completely ignoring the fact that I'm talking about the integration of these functions AS PART OF THE WINDOWS OS? I belive that it is possible for secure and stable applications to be created and used on Windows based computers. My point the whole time is that Windows, Microsoft's, track record has been one rife with nightmare security issues and one that has tended to be a follower with "borg" like assimilation of other people's good ideas.....far more so than Apple can be charged with.

I'm talking about the same company that gave us Internet Explorer and Active X that helped Spyware and Adware purveyors creep into many more millions of PC systems than even had "Konfabulator" installed on them.

My original statement was only that Windows would doubtless follow Mac in making these tools part of their next OS version.....months and months after Mac users had these, and other features, included as part of a much more stable and secure OS.

 

[falltime]

Absolutely, totally, 100% false.

Tiger was announced at WWDC in April, 2004 and Spotlight/Dashboard were demo'ed.

Konfabulator came out for windows in November 04
Copernic only came out in August 04.

When I bought up Konfab and Copernic, I was pointing out two apps that you could not have possibly never heard of. Abidiel originally pointed out that he's been a Windows user for years and never heard of any kind of app like Dashboard or Spotlight.

I should have arranged my quotes better and phrased my sentence better. My post was written with Abdiel in mind.

Real-time DS Technology has been around for quite awhile, and several apps (Puffin, Copernic, MSN) were announced and in public beta long before Spotlight was previewed. I knew of CDS protos being in beta since mid '03.

And there have been tons of apps like Dashboard available for Windows before Dashboard's announcement. Kapsule, gD, Karamba are other great examples. Konfab was just an obvious example that Dashboard is "not alone."

Falltime,

Are you completely ignoring the fact that I'm talking about the integration of these functions AS PART OF THE WINDOWS OS? I belive that it is possible for secure and stable applications to be created and used on Windows based computers. My point the whole time is that Windows, Microsoft's, track record has been one rife with nightmare security issues and one that has tended to be a follower with "borg" like assimilation of other people's good ideas.....far more so than Apple can be charged with.

I'm talking about the same company that gave us Internet Explorer and Active X that helped Spyware and Adware purveyors creep into many more millions of PC systems than even had "Konfabulator" installed on them.

My original statement was only that Windows would doubtless follow Mac in making these tools part of their next OS version.....months and months after Mac users had these, and other features, included as part of a much more stable and secure OS.

First of all, everyone needs to cool down. Wow. It's always very unsettling when I make a comment about how Apple wasn't the first, and somebody acts like I was making jokes about their dead mother.

I wasn't ignoring anything. You originally posted a comment about how Microsoft is going to steal the Dashboard/Spotlight concepts from Apple, and explicitly implement them into Longhorn. I simply pointed out that these features existed on Windows (NOT WITH) long before Apple ever integrated them into Tiger. Therefore - Apple not being the innovator of these features, simply cannot have the concepts "stolen" from them. They were already there.

Then you proceeded to say that any kind of Widget system on Windows would cause someone's spyware filter to "explode." That was interesting considering I had Kapsules running perfectly fine on my Windows PC at the time I was reading your post.

You responded by saying the average windows user does not know about these "apps" and that the Windows search function sucks (which I never made mention of in any post). Then you repeated yourself on how a Widget system would be a huge security nightmare (Why?).

So I'm not sure what you think I'm ignoring. I pointed out and corrected things YOU said. I didn't fabricate quotes. I don't care that these apps aren't integrated into Windows. I never said they were. I never corrected you on that.

And, I'm not going to dive back into the whole spyware/virus debate AGAIN. I made HUGE posts and blogs on it in the past, and I'm just burnt out on it. Just check out my post history.

 

[iLEFTOVERCRACK]

WHO CARES!!!!!!

 

[technologist]

I do believe that the "widget" concept can be traced directly to the original concept behind Desk Accessories. The more you think about it, the more it becomes clear; Desk Accessories were small apps that you could call up on top of running programs. On a single-tasking OS like Macintosh System 1, this was a major enhancement. The idea of quickly calling up a notepad or calculator from within another unrelated app is definitely the ancestor of the Konfabulator/Dashboard concept.

As for Desktop Search...BeOS, definitely. Not Apple, never said it was, and whoever did probably never though too much about it. From what I understand, both Spotlight and WinFS, not to mention the third-party products for Windows, are crude in comparison to BFS.

WHO CARES!!!!!!

Apparently, several people on this forum care quite a bit.

 

[Abdiel]

I think that we are actually just missing the emphasis of each other's points, not necessarily disagreeing. Perhaps I did not make my comments clear.

I don't believe that I ever said that any sort of "Widget" application would have to be a security issue on a PC. I was making reference to the fact that Windows...as an OS... has had well known and easily exploitable security issues. My comment about "Widgets" being an issue with a PC was only with reference to potential problems based on the kinds of issues that MicroSoft has allowed into their OS and applications in the past. I also, though I need to refer back, don't believe that I accused Windows of stealing....in this case at least...so much as I suggested that they would be followers rather than leaders in the implimentation of well designed "widgets" or useful search functions as part of their system.

Based on MS's track record I wouldn't be surprised if Longhorn tried to utilize some sort of Active X controls or other "tools" that made a Windows OS version of "Widgets" potential security issues. Windows has shown that their first concern is giving web developers "tools" that give them easier access to the private computers of PC owners. Only when the abuse, in the form of Spyware, Adware, Pop-Ups and Viruses reached unbelievable levels did they address these problem officially.

Yes, in some cases the user is to blame for these security issues...but frankly all these users who ended up with massive problems did was surf the internet and open their e-mail. Users, even ones who don't work in IT departments or hang out in uber-geek computer forums, should be able to use their computer without getting it bogged down to the point of being nigh useless. Obviously not as much of an issue now but it never needed to be.

The original thrust of this thread was that some people believe that Mac OS can be, will be, and should be hacked for use on any Intel chipset in the future. The comment about Windows including Mac OS like features had more to do with explaining that, and I think that you'll agree with me, these features are really just simple cosmetic apps that really don't feature the true differences between the two OSes.

Sorry if any of my comments seemed a bit churlish.

 

[sarahsboy18]

I have no idea why I even dare to jump into this but for some reason I can't help myself...

I'm seeing alot of great points and posts on both "sides"... truth be told I still can't figure out what sides are sides and what sides are just posts with lots of words.... (not talking about anyone specifically )

The only place where something like Dashboard or Spotlight (or iPhoto, iDVD, iTunes blah blah blah) have any value is in the home market. And if Businesses/Power Users really needed the functions of those tools they would find the windows based tools already mentioned.... Business/Power users are plenty smart enough to keep track of their files and don't want dashboard stealing their memory... And truth be told business IT departments (for the most part) are totally capable of defending against the viruses on the MS platform.

Only the person who came up with the idea actually knows who originally had the idea to make a dashboard like program.... Apple simply saw an opportunity to apply directly to their new home market... So they took it.

Apple IS taking some initative and "going after" Microsoft in the home market.... but nowhere else. And Microsoft could care less... They have infiltrated the home in plenty of ways... Be it the existing PC base or the Xbox. But truth be told they are making enough money in the corporate sector to throw the home market away... (not that they will )

And as far as Hacking OSX... home users aren't going to be the ones doing that... so that is really no concern to Apple either. I just don't see Apple selling OSX without their hardware... It just doesn't match with the model Apple has always followed.

 

[Ghostshadow]

i dont care anymore . it's pointless

 

[scooter]

well, wasn't that an informative and spirited discussion?

i think OSX will become available on the PC market sometime in the next few years; not by being 'hacked' (which it probably will be) but by being 'released' from apple. apple has released a newer OS every, what, two years or so at least? Longhorn is coming and everybody with half a brain knows it will most likely take the OS world by storm just like XP originally did. I think Steve will want to have a piece of that OS motherload for switchers from XP to Longhorn. If users have a viable and progressive and usefull OS besides Longhorn, it will be worth mucho cash to apple. (Sorry Linux users, not quite there yet!)

I believe it is almost time for OSX to throw off the security blanket of only working on a few, certain machines and make itself available to the big, wide world of pc computing. That is the only was apple will go from being 1 in every 100 homes to something a little more commanding.

BTW I'm not going to launch myself into the spyware, virus debate again. When apple has 90+% percent of the home and workplace market, then come ask me how stable and virus free a OSX is. :biohazard

 

[Abdiel]

One last comment....I did post an admittedly unscientific poll over at a guitar forum that I frequent just to see if I am indeed the only person in the world who has never heard of Konfabulator. I think that this was a fair place to post such a question because of the rather broad cross section of computer users of all levels.....it's not just a hang out for computer IT guys or for people with any kind of computer agenda.

As I suspected....the responses are currently running about 4-1 in favor of those who have no idea what Konfabulator is. Again, these are just regular computer users...some on Macs, most on Windows whose only real common element is that all of them are interested in acousitc guitars to one degree or another. All levels of education, computer experience and from many different walks of life. A fair cross-section of online computer users I think.

 

[math]

Getting back onto the original point, even if a hacked version of Intel OSX is buggy on random PCs due to the hardware issue, it might work out cheaper than buying a proper Mac to just build one with specific parts (unless of course Apple make the mobo themselves). This would be great; I could possibly build a Mac-compatible computer for less than it would cost to buy one! admittedly it wouldn't look even nearly as nice, and I wouldn't have the social cachet of owning a Mac, but hey - beggars can't be choosers!

I'm hoping that's the case anyway Although by the time it comes to pass I might have saved up enough money to get a new Mac. I'd even settle for a G4 1ghz

 

[rman]

I really don't think you will be able to build an Apple system. It would cut into Apple sales of hardware. So Apple wouldn't let that happen again. There will be something done, so that OS X will only run on an Apple system.

 

[Acill]

I'm not saying it wont happen, but I stand fast that it would be a bad idea. It would cut into Apple sales and thats not a good thing. Macs are not more then PC omputers if you look at what you get and the PC has the same level of parts as the Mac.

Look at Alienware computers. They are MORE then a lot of Macs are. Its just that Mac does not offer a crap low end version other then the emac and the mini. Even those are packed full of way more software then a cheap dell is.

 

[Tel]

I'm with iLEFTOVERCRACK on this one.

 

[badmojo]

PC guys aren't buying it:

http://www.maximumpc.com/2005/07/apples_x86_inva.html

 

[scooter]

PC guys aren't buying it:

http://www.maximumpc.com/2005/07/apples_x86_inva.html

umm.......i think i don't quite understand you point. the article you quoted is the same one i used to start this entire thread, and the author does think apple will release OSX for PC.

 

[rman]

What would Apple gain, if they let OS X run on any PC. Nothing. They would lose hardware sales.

 

[Mac N00b]

The only problem is that people on a whole are resistant to change. Jack and Jill Windows-User aren't just going to switch over to OSX just because it is available. I know people who haven't even switched to XP because it was different. Even if Apple were to put out a PC version of OSX, Windows would have dominance. Majority of people don't know what Linux is and Linux is available on PC systems. Some people don't know what an operating system is and think that Windows is the only thing available. Most know about Mac but it is a taboo with them. What makes you guys think that tons of people will just throw off windows and get OSX?

 

[scooter]

why would apple lose hardware sales? most mac addicts will probably buy apple made products and only apple made products. there would still be some switchers who would want an entirely apple system to try out because they are tired of windows and pc's in general. the biggest market will be folks who currently use windows and want/need something different to put on their systems.


here's a question: who makes apple computers? or more correctly, who makes apple parts? does apple? i know the Superdrive is manufactured by a couple of different folks including Pioneer: not sure about memory or hard drives: i know apple does not make the video cards or the processors: i know they don't make the monitors either. is apple just like Dell in that they chose what parts they want from other manfacturers and then put it together in their own box? i know apple makes their own software, for the most part. (i'm not trying to being dense, i just don't know apple manufacturing. half the time i read posts and it sounds like apple makes all it's own stuff which i know is not true.)

 

[Graphite]

why would apple lose hardware sales?

switchers. why switch from a shotty OS to a nice OS and new computer, when you can just install OSX on your PC?


also, most hardware companies don't make their own parts, they just build the computers with the parts they are given.