Plan on going back in time, what becomes of current libraries?

[MacInWin]

You could install Mavericks into a Virtual Machine, allocate it most of the RAM on the host Mac and use that for your everyday needs .

That would add complexity. He is trying to simplify.

 

[MacBiter]

That would add complexity. He is trying to simplify.

But if he really wants to run Mavericks on a later Mac, it's the only way to do it - and the complexity is only when setting it up, after that it's just a double click to launch the VM.

 

[MacInWin]

That still doesn't solve the issue of his Photos library that won't be readable by iPhoto and it won't solve the issues he will have with the older Safari, etc. Again, we don't want to lose sight of what he wants to do while we add complexity to his system and still not solve the real issues. it's easy to get caught up in the technology and forget why we started out in the first place.

There is an urban legend about the Taj Mahal, that the builder originally wanted to build a tomb for his deceased wife. The tomb took years to build, and as he was wandering around it years later, he came across a wooden box that he thought looked out of place in his beautiful building. Turned out to be his wife's coffin, forgotten in the work of building the edifice.

We don't want to forget the reason he has the computer in the first place.

 

[MacBiter]

That still doesn't solve the issue of his Photos library that won't be readable by iPhoto and it won't solve the issues he will have with the older Safari, etc. Again, we don't want to lose sight of what he wants to do while we add complexity to his system and still not solve the real issues. it's easy to get caught up in the technology and forget why we started out in the first place.


We don't want to forget the reason he has the computer in the first place.

He won't need the older Safari - he would use a modern browser in the host OS, with the minimum amount of RAM for that and similar tasks he couldn't do in Mavericks.

The real stumbling block as you say would be his converted iPhoto library. There might be one ray of light there however - if it's possible to bulk export his picture files from the Photos library to a device, he could then bulk import them to iPhoto, but he'd then have to reorganise them within iPhoto.

As for 'what he wants', it seems from the first post that he wants Mavericks back as that's the OS that has caused him fewest problems. At least, that's what I read.

Just as a salutary note - I intend to upgrade from Mavericks to High Sierra in the not too distant future, but I shall be running both iTunes and iPhoto within a Mavericks VM both pointing to the current libraries on the host neither of which will be touched by Music or Photos.

 

[hempomatic]

I think that the simplest thing for me at this point is to simply pick up an older machine, install a new SSD and add RAM if required with a fresh copy of Mavericks. I'll just use that as my primary computer and use the newer machine for it's Photos Library, OR as Jake mentioned, there could potentially be sites that won't allow access with the older OS I'll use the newer computer. Converting all those files looks like a major undertaking.

I couldn't even BEGIN to understand having a virtual machine, so that's not an option. I have to admit, I'm really looking forward to the older versions of iPhotos and iTunes.

In a couple of years, it looks like Intel machines will no longer be supported with the newest operating systems. Hopefully then I won't need THREE computers.

Thanks for your help.

 

[MacInWin]

I think that the simplest thing for me at this point is to simply pick up an older machine, install a new SSD and add RAM if required with a fresh copy of Mavericks. I'll just use that as my primary computer and use the newer machine for it's Photos Library, OR as Jake mentioned, there could potentially be sites that won't allow access with the older OS I'll use the newer computer. Converting all those files looks like a major undertaking.

I couldn't even BEGIN to understand having a virtual machine, so that's not an option. I have to admit, I'm really looking forward to the older versions of iPhotos and iTunes.

In a couple of years, it looks like Intel machines will no longer be supported with the newest operating systems. Hopefully then I won't need THREE computers.

Thanks for your help.

You will still have to do the Photos to iPhoto move as iPhoto won't be able to open the Photos library at all. I personally don't think it's worth getting a new machine just for iTunes, particularly as the expected length of Apple support of iTunes isn't that long anyway.

As for the Intel machines, I think most of them have had the last, or next to last, update they will get. Apple is moving on.

Again, I would look for someone in the local area with a Mac that can provide some one-on-one tutoring for you. Anybody like that? Community college? Library with IT smart librarian? Local store with computers, preferably Apple products? Even a local high school might have a computer club with some smart teens who might know Macs.

 

[Rod]

You know, there have been a lot of changes/improvements/advances in Apple technology both software and hardware in the last few years not least being Apple Intelligence but you can opt out of almost all of it if you don't want it. Stage Manager and Tiling, I don't use either. Apple Intelligence, you get the option to download the AI components for each integrated aop but you don't have to. Apple Passwords, you don't have to use it, just keep using whichever PM you used before. Passkeys, at last count only about 20 sites/services are participating so far, again you don't have to use them.

My point is, yes, there have been lots of changes and new features added but you can opt out of most of them and some are so good I wouldn't want to. Mac's still give users a huge amount of leeway to customise their devices to suit themselves without compromising compatibility with applications, secure web sites or personal safety online.

 

[hempomatic]

You will still have to do the Photos to iPhoto move as iPhoto won't be able to open the Photos library at all. I personally don't think it's worth getting a new machine just for iTunes, particularly as the expected length of Apple support of iTunes isn't that long anyway.

That's not an issue, there will simply be two separate libraries on 2 separate machines. The individual files would be compatible. Are you saying that iTunes will simply stop working one day? Any new photos would be stored on the older machine.

As for the Intel machines, I think most of them have had the last, or next to last, update they will get. Apple is moving on.

Yeah, that's my fear/assumption. I'm sure we'll be revisiting this in a year or two.

Again, I would look for someone in the local area with a Mac that can provide some one-on-one tutoring for you. Anybody like that? Community college? Library with IT smart librarian? Local store with computers, preferably Apple products? Even a local high school might have a computer club with some smart teens who might know Macs.

I get what you're saying, but to what end? There isn't anything in the newer OS I need that older versions don't already have. I fully understand I'm in a minority, and most certainly an anachronism.

The Library comment gave me a chuckle. I'm in the Bible Belt, and it's almost a Fahrenheit 451 situation around here. Probably 30 % or more of all books have been removed from the shelves so they don't lose county funding. If a single person is in any way offended, the book is immediately removed. The computers have 10 year old Windoze operating systems and are barely functional, something I learned after Hurricane Helene.

You know, there have been a lot of changes/improvements/advances in Apple technology both software and hardware in the last few years not least being Apple Intelligence but you can opt out of almost all of it if you don't want it.

I get it Rod, and I already don't use any of that stuff, but my issues are more detail oriented than conceptual. Things like passwords that I knew where they were, were moved and sure, I found them eventually. It's simply frustrating and annoying, but I use the computer primarily for fun/pleasure and it's less and less intuitive FOR ME, obviously not for you.

Stage Manager and Tiling, I don't use either.

No idea what they are.

Apple Intelligence, you get the option to download the AI components for each integrated aop but you don't have to.

Can you even use that on an intel machine? (not that I ever would anyway)

Apple Passwords, you don't have to use it, just keep using whichever PM you used before. Passkeys, at last count only about 20 sites/services are participating so far, again you don't have to use them.
My point is, yes, there have been lots of changes and new features added but you can opt out of most of them and some are so good I wouldn't want to. Mac's still give users a huge amount of leeway to customise their devices to suit themselves without compromising compatibility with applications, secure web sites or personal safety online.

I get get that

 

[hempomatic]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your efforts to drag me kicking and screaming into the 21st century. The funny part of this is that all I wanted to know was if Photos was backward compatible with iPhotos and by association, Music and iTunes.

I'm sure the day will come where I will be forced to acquiesce OR simply bail out entirely. Fortunately for me, there are still a fewer older machines out there that suit my current needs.

THANK YOU !

Happy New Year

 

[MacInWin]

Are you saying that iTunes will simply stop working one day?

Probably. Apple never lets us know what they plan, but they did replace iTunes with Music, so I think it inevitable that iTunes will cease to function at some point. Maybe not by deliberate design, but simply because Apple will continue to develop Music and not iTunes and sooner or later the older app won't successfully work with the Apple Servers because of the changes. Now, that said, will iTunes cease to work on your machine? Probably not, but you won't be able to buy any new tracks from Apple if/when it happens.

As for the library comment, you might be surprised if you asked the librarian if they know any Mac user groups. Libraries are usually pretty up to date on things going on in the community. They may be lumbered with old tech, but they know people and are one of the places where all kinds of people visit to ask questions.

 

[hempomatic]

Probably. Apple never lets us know what they plan, but they did replace iTunes with Music, so I think it inevitable that iTunes will cease to function at some point. Maybe not by deliberate design, but simply because Apple will continue to develop Music and not iTunes and sooner or later the older app won't successfully work with the Apple Servers because of the changes. Now, that said, will iTunes cease to work on your machine? Probably not, but you won't be able to buy any new tracks from Apple if/when it happens.

I don't purchase music from Apple, EVER. Not sure if it's changed, but a few years ago, you had to pay extra for the privilege of copying music you already paid for if you wanted to listen in your car or anywhere other than the computer.

As for the library comment, you might be surprised if you asked the librarian if they know any Mac user groups. Libraries are usually pretty up to date on things going on in the community. They may be lumbered with old tech, but they know people and are one of the places where all kinds of people visit to ask questions.

We're talking about a Library where the Bible is in the history section.

 

[ferrarr]

Not sure if it's changed, but a few years ago, you had to pay extra for the privilege of copying music you already paid for if you wanted to listen in your car or anywhere other than the computer.

That's not true.

 

[MacBiter]

Probably. Apple never lets us know what they plan, but they did replace iTunes with Music, so I think it inevitable that iTunes will cease to function at some point. Maybe not by deliberate design, but simply because Apple will continue to develop Music and not iTunes and sooner or later the older app won't successfully work with the Apple Servers because of the changes. Now, that said, will iTunes cease to work on your machine? Probably not, but you won't be able to buy any new tracks from Apple if/when it happens.

In a way, you're talking about two separate things. iTunes the PLAYER will always continue to work on older Macs, but the STORE is still there, it's just been renamed Music - the albums and tracks are all still there, so is your account. So even if iTunes stops letting you buy music, you'll still be able to do so with an iPad or phone, then play it using iTunes on your Mac. I think you're worrying unnecessarily.

 

[IWT]

That's not true.

I agree wholeheartedly. Once someone has purchased a “tune”, that tune can be played on an iPhone, a Mac, iPad, and on any car that allows Apple Play which is just about all of the recent models.

There is no extra charge and there never has been.

Ian

 

[hempomatic]

I agree wholeheartedly. Once someone has purchased a “tune”, that tune can be played on an iPhone, a Mac, iPad, and on any car that allows Apple Play which is just about all of the recent models.

There is no extra charge and there never has been.

Ian

Sorry guys, I have to absolutely disagree with that. I paid .$99 a song and $1.25 per song if I wanted to copy to CD. Perhaps that's changed, this was a decade ago. I never said it couldn't be played on any apple product from the library, but I only had an apple computer, no other apple devices, and I had hundreds of albums and was not able to copy any to CD. That's one of the reasons I started purchasing music on Amazon or buying CD's and copying them to iTunes.

 

[pm-r]

Sorry guys, I have to absolutely disagree with that. I paid .$99 a song and $1.25 per song if I wanted to copy to CD. Perhaps that's changed,

Maybe you misunderstood what the charges were for but if it was a mistake maybe you should check out their help page and get a refund if you are entitled to one:

If you find purchases that you don't recognize or unexpected charges

View your purchase history for the App Store and other Apple media services - Apple Support

If you want a list of the apps, subscriptions, music, and other content that you bought recently, find your purchase history online.

support.apple.com

I never used Apple's iTunes Store very much, more like hardly ever, but I seem to recall they had an extra charge if you wanted some type of High Fidelity selections or to allow other options with the music selections purchased, but I don't remember all the details.

We had enough music on the purchase CDs we bought and they could even be played on the built-in CD player that was installed in our IMacs or Towers back in the good old days.



- Patrick
=======

 

[MacBiter]

Sorry guys, I have to absolutely disagree with that. I paid .$99 a song and $1.25 per song if I wanted to copy to CD. Perhaps that's changed, this was a decade ago. I never said it couldn't be played on any apple product from the library, but I only had an apple computer, no other apple devices, and I had hundreds of albums and was not able to copy any to CD. That's one of the reasons I started purchasing music on Amazon or buying CD's and copying them to iTunes.

There has never been a charge to copy your iTunes purchases. Indeed, back in the days of DRM you could only have a maximum of 5 computers authorised for iTunes to be able to play DRM purchases; the way around this was to burn your music to a CD and then rip the CD back to iTunes, when the DRM would no longer apply.

 

[IWT]

There has never been a charge to copy your iTunes purchases. Indeed, back in the days of DRM you could only have a maximum of 5 computers authorised for iTunes to be able to play DRM purchases; the way around this was to burn your music to a CD and then rip the CD back to iTunes, when the DRM would no longer apply.

Correct.

Ian

 

[hempomatic]

Well, no point in arguing with you guys. When I was unable to copy to CD, I was told by Apple that I didn't pay for full rights to the music or some such BS. Consequently, I went to Amazon where I paid $.89 and was able to burn CD's from iTunes. Believe it or not? That doesn't change anything. All moot now because I usually buy vinyl, and "Music" is no longer used by me. Regardless, this thread took a hard left turn. My original query was answered, thank you.

 

[MacBiter]

Well, no point in arguing with you guys. When I was unable to copy to CD, I was told by Apple that I didn't pay for full rights to the music or some such BS. Consequently, I went to Amazon where I paid $.89 and was able to burn CD's from iTunes. Believe it or not? That doesn't change anything. All moot now because I usually buy vinyl, and "Music" is no longer used by me. Regardless, this thread took a hard left turn. My original query was answered, thank you.

That is quite correct, but it's not an Apple thing. Ever since the earliest days of records - long before iTunes ever existed - you don't actually "own" the music you buy, just the right to play it; if you own any old vinyl you will see some wording such as "public broadcasting is prohibited" and other similar strictures. As for the CD thing, Apple were probably just trying to discourage you to circumvent DRM in the way I said above, but they couldn't charge you more for doing so.