password required to move a file to a folder??

[IgorP]

After some trauma with my machine and restoration of my desktop via Time Machine, I now have to enter my password every time I want to move a file to a folder. I thought it might a System or Finder Setting, but I don't see anything. The target folder is not locked.

I never had this before... what changed?

 

[MacInWin]

In the "restoration" did you have to reinstall the OS and then recover from TM? If so, did you first create a new account and THEN recover? If that was the sequence, then you have a permissions issue because the account you created is NOT the same as the account used to make the backup. You may have used the same name, but it is NOT the same to the operating system.

Let us know what you did and we can discuss the options to recover.

 

[Rod]

Here is Apple's explanation of what MacInWin has advised you above and I'm pretty sure he's aced it.

Restore your Mac from a backup - Apple Support

Restore files from your backup.

support.apple.com

In point/step number 8 you need to choose; "

• Replace: The account on your Time Machine backup will replace the identically named account on your Mac.

That way it will be identical to how it was before with the same passwords and permissions.
You just need to perform the process again.

 

[MacInWin]

Rod, I was going to hold off to see if he has anything added to his system that would need to be saved again before performing the process again. But since youve given him the link, I'll just say that now.

For @IgorP : If you have made any changes with the new account that you wish to preserve, you'll need to copy them off somewhere safe before re-doing the Migration as the migration process may well erase that newer stuff. The easiest "fix" is to get the Mac back to factory-new state and go through the initialization process and as Rod indicated, select "Replace' when it is offered. That will create an account with the same permissions as before and make the problem go away. Once that is done, return the newer stuff to your account.

 

[Rod]

Sorry, maybe jumped the gun a bit there. Yes, any new data added since restoring the device would need to be saved somewhere else first, eg USB Flash Drive or similar.

 

[MacInWin]

No problem, Rod, I was just being cautious.

 

[Rod]

Not a bad thing, I was just thinking the quicker it's done the better before the OP creates too many new files, especially if he's backing up to TM. If you know what I mean.

 

[IgorP]

In the "restoration" did you have to reinstall the OS and then recover from TM? If so, did you first create a new account and THEN recover? If that was the sequence, then you have a permissions issue because the account you created is NOT the same as the account used to make the backup. You may have used the same name, but it is NOT the same to the operating system.

Let us know what you did and we can discuss the options to recover.

I did not reinstall the OS or create a new account. I used TM only to restore my desktop files and folders by selecting/restoring them one by one.

I would be really hesitant to use Migration Asst as I would not know which backup to use: a recent one would have the permissions problem, no? An old one would have my previous problem, which was worse. For now, having to enter my login password every time I move a file is only a minor annoyance.

Maybe I should just live with it. I have never gotten into or understood all the sharing and permissions stuff. It's just me and my Mac, isolated, no sharing.

 

[pm-r]

Once that is done, return the newer stuff to your account.

I'm just being a bit curious here, but if permissions were needed to move some files into a folder, couldn't the permissions be changed for that particular folder in its Get Info window, and use the option to include all enclosed folders and data?

It seems that would be a lot simpler unless I'm missing or not understanding the situation completely.



- Patrick
=======

 

[IgorP]

New data! Not all of the folders on my desktop act as described above. I checked every folder 1) whether it required a pw to move a file, and 2) the Get Info box. About half of my folders act as normal: move files in or out or into Trash, no pw required. About half require a password to move a file in or out or to Trash. So the problem is not universal.

2) Of the folders that require a password, the Get Info box can be either of these two:


Those folders that do not require a password can also have Get Info's of either type. So the difference in the way my folders behave is apparently not revealed by Get Info.

 

[pm-r]

Those folders that do not require a password can also have Get Info's of either type. So the difference in the way my folders behave is apparently not revealed by Get Info.

@IgorP
I would certainly want to get that rather annoying problem sorted out and maybe a trip to read Apple's suggestions at their support page would be a good idea and get things fixed so they work properly for you:

Change permissions for files, folders, or disks on Mac

Change permissions for files, folders, or disks on Mac

On your Mac, assign permissions that allow users and groups to see or change a file, folder, or disk.

support.apple.com

Just a thought and suggestion...



- Patrick
=======

 

[Rod]

Well IgorP, looks like I'll have to retract my suggestion in Post #3 as it seems you did not restore your entire device via Time Machine, just your Desktop.

As even that is not universally a problem, yes, you could just live with it but it is a bit odd.

Have you tried the suggestions in the linked article posted by pm-r ? Did it work?

If you create a New folder on the Desktop do you have any problems moving files in or out or moving the folder itself?

My guess is if this problem persists only for older folders and files they will become less and less over time.

Try moving one of the files that requires a password to a new folder, then try moving it again. Does it still require a password for the second move?

 

[ferrarr]

You need to Change Permissions on your Home folder. When you do that, you want to select the Circle with three dots in it . Then choose Apply to enclosed files and folders.

Change permissions for files, folders, or disks on Mac

On your Mac, assign permissions that allow users and groups to see or change a file, folder, or disk.

support.apple.com

 

[IgorP]

OK, pursuing the suggestions above reveals new details. I have discovered that the problem is associated with the files, not the folders per se.

A folder that does not exhibit the syndrome described above behaves normally: I can drag a file out, drag it back or trash it, no problem. This applies to every file in that folder.

A folder that I described as having the problem behaves as follows: If I drag a file out (to the desktop, say) a) it makes a copy and leaves the original behind; b) the copy on the desktop has an odd icon with a pair of left/right arrows; c) the copy cannot be trashed without entering my login password. Every file in that folder will have the password-demanding syndrome.

Thus it would seem that the syndrome is associated with the file itself, but it's also associated with the folders too, because all the files in a given folder exhibit the same characteristic: they're either free of the problem or the all have the problem.

I have unlocked permissions in the Get Info boxes of both the folders and files and switched them around; nothing I do with permissions makes any difference.

I guess the first basic question would be why do some files acquire a weird icon and require a pw to move while others do not; and second, why would this apply either to every file in a folder or none of them?

I am not sure what is meant by "home folder."

 

[MacBiter]

I am not sure what is meant by "home folder."

just as a heads up : your home folder is the highest level for any user account; if you click it you will see - as a minimum - your Pictures, Music, Downloads, Documents, Movies folders, plus Library if you've made it visible.

 

[pm-r]

I guess the first basic question would be why do some files acquire a weird icon and require a pw to move while others do not; and second, why would this apply either to every file in a folder or none of them?

Have you performed the process that Ferrarr explained in his #13 post, making sure you selected the apply to all enclosed items option?

But make sure the permissions are correct or change them accordingly if needed before doing so.

I would try doing it over again and maybe even restarting when you have finished.

Use and copy the permissions from your users' folder that actually work properly.



- Patrick
=======

 

[Rod]

So am I right in assuming these files were the ones restored from Time Machine?
It's often the case that imported or restored files exhibit this behaviour. How old are the files?

 

[MacInWin]

A folder that I described as having the problem behaves as follows: If I drag a file out (to the desktop, say) a) it makes a copy and leaves the original behind; b) the copy on the desktop has an odd icon with a pair of left/right arrows; c) the copy cannot be trashed without entering my login password. Every file in that folder will have the password-demanding syndrome.

I guess the first basic question would be why do some files acquire a weird icon and require a pw to move while others do not; and second, why would this apply either to every file in a folder or none of them?

Your drive is now formatted for APFS, and moving a file in APFS is different from the way it worked in HFS+. When you create a copy of a file (or folder), APFS does NOT actually create a complete new file (or folder) at the new location. It just creates directory entries pointing to the same sectors of the drive as the original file. If you edit the new (or old) file, only the sectors that have been changed are now duplicated and the changes applied. The unchanged file (copy or original) does not use the amended sectors. If you continue to make changes, eventually enough sectors get changed that the files become so different that effectively they become separate. If you delete one (either one), the directory entries for that one are deleted, but the directory entries for the other ones are still there and are used for the other version.

I haven't see the arrows you have described, but then I have not had to restore my Desktop from a backup. Perhaps it is related to the restoration and the copying process I described.

As for the password, the files that you restored to the Desktop from the backup probably have a different user ID than your other directory files and therefore require you to grant permission for them to be copied into YOUR folders. The name may LOOK the same, but the OS uses an internal identification system and the restoration of the old files used the ID from the old account, not your current account. Once you authorize them, they should not require it again.

 

[Rod]

Jake, your understanding of APFS, file and directory structure far exceed mine. I have an vague instinctive understanding of these things but I could never express it clearly in words the way you have done above.
I guess my mind doesn't work that way but it's kind of where I was going with post #17, "How old are the files?" I was wondering if they dated back to HFS+?

I had a friend with a similar problem as the OP where he had kept the same TM backup used on his previous Mac to transfer his data to a new Mac with Migration Assistant and was still using it to backup the new Mac.

This is one of the reasons I erase my HDD Time Machine backup yearly, essentially to bring it up to date with the current Mac directory and sectors. Unlike you I don't fully understand why this is a good idea I just know it is.

Anyhow, thanks for the clear explanation, it helps me keep my mental image of Mac file structure in focus.

I do think that is the probable cause of the problem and once permission is given via Admin Password it should not need to be repeated.

 

[MacInWin]

Rod, I got my information from an explainer at Can APFS special files save storage space?

That was the best explanation of how APFS "copies" files I have read. The article even references a tool that can recover drive space if there are any files with really two copies on it. I used it and saved a few GB in my MBP.

One thing I would say is that age of the file is immaterial. The drive itself is formatted and managed with APFS, and it doesn't matter how old the file is when it is first put on APFS, as it is then totally managed by APFS itself.

As for TM backups, the old reasons for restarting as you do is not valid, either. TM has changed how it makes backups to be snapshots and the old hard links are now changed to be references to the original blocks on the drive and only the changed blocks are copied to any given backup. A restore then looks at the first FULL backup snapshot on the backup drive, which is the only one with ALL of the information, then applies the changes to blocks in that snapshot going forward to the most recent backup, or the one chosen to be restored. Then those block are copied to the drive being restored and whatever blocks they now occupy are recorded in the directory. None of that has much to do with the issue of the OP, but the permissions on the restored files are probably the issue. And TM backups are a good bit more complicated than that brief statemnt, but that is the 50,000 foot view of it and about all that is needed to understand the process. Again, Howard has good explainers at EclecticLight.