OSX For All x86 Users - Security already cracked

[rs2sensen]

If you're putting your margins on hardware you're going to have very, very few people who will put down the kind of money you're looking for when another, less expensive and more universally accepted standard is around. The solution is to switch your margins to the less expensive to produce, margin rich products like software and sell in volume.

Correct to a point. However, that business model cannot sustain itself. Eventually, users get fed up with the lower quality of service they get from the cheap company, and decide to go to the more expensive one, because they are spending even more money to keep their cheaper items running, than if they had gotten the better one first.

This is happening with Microsoft, just slowly. It hasn't played out yet.

 

[spaeschke]

Apple treats their customers badly compared to Microsoft? I strongly disagree with this. Give some more information relating to that, please.

How about practically non-existent support for legacy products? Or the litigiousness they've displayed towards operators of fan sites? Gouging customers for every OS update that comes down the pike? How about every few years Apple switching to a different codebase that is not backwards complient, jerking their developers around, which by the way, gets passed on to you?

I shudder to think of how Apple would have behaved had they become the 800 lb. gorilla of the computing world.

 

[spaeschke]

This is happening with Microsoft, just slowly. It hasn't played out yet.

Uh huh. Because aside from servers where has any OS really made a dent in Microsoft's marketshare? Linux for all it's noise and thunder hasn't. Apple hasn't, and their current financially healthy state is due largely to the iPod. I've heard estimates that 50% of their current revenue is coming from the iPod. You want to talk about non-sustainable, you've got it right there.

 

[rs2sensen]

Uh huh. Because aside from servers where has any OS really made a dent in Microsoft's marketshare? Linux for all it's noise and thunder hasn't. Apple hasn't, and their current financially healthy state is due largely to the iPod. I've heard estimates that 50% of their current revenue is coming from the iPod. You want to talk about non-sustainable, you've got it right there.

For one, PC sales have been dropping and Mac sales are on the rise. And that has been the case for a few months now.

 

[rs2sensen]

How about practically non-existent support for legacy products? Or the litigiousness they've displayed towards operators of fan sites? Gouging customers for every OS update that comes down the pike? How about every few years Apple switching to a different codebase that is not backwards complient, jerking their developers around, which by the way, gets passed on to you?

I shudder to think of how Apple would have behaved had they become the 800 lb. gorilla of the computing world.

Have you tried talking to Microsoft customer support? For one, they don't support old products either. Also, try actually getting to talk to them. You get to give much more personal information to them than apple, and, if you have more than a couple questions, you get to give them your credit card number as well! It used to be M$ only offered I believe it was 3 free service calls, that could have changed by now though.

 

[spaeschke]

For one, PC sales have been dropping and Mac sales are on the rise. And that has been the case for a few months now.

And I'm sure that trend will continue considering that Apple just announced the change over to x86. I know I'd jump at the chance to toss some money away on a PPC Mac when the latest and greatest x86 version is due next year.

 

[rs2sensen]

And I'm sure that trend will continue considering that Apple just announced the change over to x86. I know I'd jump at the chance to toss some money away on a PPC Mac when the latest and greatest x86 version is due next year.

I see the sarcasm, but you are incorrect again. A large amount of users on this forum intend to buy PowerPC macs before the Intel switch, or right after it.

 

[spaeschke]

Have you tried talking to Microsoft customer support? For one, they don't support old products either. Also, try actually getting to talk to them. You get to give much more personal information to them than apple, and, if you have more than a couple questions, you get to give them your credit card number as well! It used to be M$ only offered I believe it was 3 free service calls, that could have changed by now though.

Yes I have, and yes it can be a pain. It's also painful going through Redhat, Sun or Novell.

I notice that you've picked up on the one point that very few people ever have to deal with and ignored my other points, because if the average consumer has a problem they'll go through their vendor, not MS directly. As a sysadmin and DBA if I have a problem I call up either Dell, Sun, or Oracle, because that's what I'm paying them for.

 

[spaeschke]

I see the sarcasm, but you are incorrect again. A large amount of users on this forum intend to buy PowerPC macs before the Intel switch, or right after it.

And this forum is a representative sample of Mac users, no doubt.

And yep, that's sarcasm again.

 

[rs2sensen]

And this forum is a representative sample of Mac users, no doubt.

And yep, that's sarcasm again.

How is it not? We have people of all ages, all experiences, and people who work in many fields of work. The only downside is that this forum is primarily male, but, if you look at mac use in general, that may be the actual demographic.

 

[rs2sensen]

Yes I have, and yes it can be a pain. It's also painful going through Redhat, Sun or Novell.

I notice that you've picked up on the one point that very few people ever have to deal with and ignored my other points, because if the average consumer has a problem they'll go through their vendor, not MS directly. As a sysadmin and DBA if I have a problem I call up either Dell, Sun, or Oracle, because that's what I'm paying them for.

And they will tell you to go to Microsoft. Yeah, I've done it too. I once had a Gateway, and after that a Dell, and now a HP. I've contacted all of them with problems, and they have all told me to contact Microsoft, that it wasn't their problem.

 

[rs2sensen]

ignored my other points

Yes, because other users have already proven them wrong. Or, because I replied in another post in this thread and proved them wrong. I don't like to beat dead horses.

 

[Ex_PC_Puke]

This is still very early on in the conversion process - so I'm not going to make too much of it - pretty much expected some dope would do this or something would get loose

I doubt these development systems have much in the way of the planned protections (unlisted registers / switches / fuses ) that exist in Intel Si and are gaurded jealously (i.e. extremely high security clearances). I would not be surprized that Intel has even agreed to add a couple of extra of these features on future Si just for Apple.

Would also comment that even if there is some future way to break thru most or all of these protections .... it will only be done by the geeky of the geekiest and not really cut into the major Apple market share

Relax and have and latte

 

[ryanyogan]

I like apple as much as the next guy but you know, a majority of you users that compalin about windows all day, just don't know how to run an OS and you need it to hold your hand. I never user A/V, spyware any of that **** on my Wintel system, and no problems. However of all our clients, 80% of them find ways to ruin the OS in less then 10 minutes at most of our offices we lock the computers down so much now that they can only use there corporate programs and internet explorer with high security settings. So enough of the windows bashing, for god sakes its a freakin program for computers, some people need to start watching football or go outside and run, there is more in the world to worry about!! And yes the real deal is out for the developers, I am installing it on a pc I built as we speak, and two of my buddies said OS X on there p4's runs complete circles around the g5 from everything to boot, opening apps, and compiling programs, so think positive not negative, this is all good!

 

[Texasmeat]

....

Apple is undoubtedly a software company. No?, take away their software and what do they offer? Not much.. Takes us back to the tough times in the 90's (before os x) when apple was floundering and needed microsoft to bail them out. I love apple as much as the next guy but it's not so much brand loyalty as it is flat out a better product suited for what I use a computer for (creative design and music). Apple has known for some time that it's this niche of creative people that controls their sales and they cater to that. But for some people to say that apple is not a software company, they need to re-evaluate the state of apple in the past to the present. Take away their pro apps like shake, final cut pro, motion and then their interface os x and the company would fall. If they stopped selling expensive pretty hardware, sure they'd lose some initial sales from the hardcore mac fans but they'd pick it back up when those fed up with Windows gave os x a try.Either way, I am running os x on my dell pentium 4 1.6 and it's much faster than the powerpc counterparts. Load times are unreal. Makes you wonder what took apple so long..

 

[schweb]

And this forum is a representative sample of Mac users, no doubt.

And yep, that's sarcasm again.

Actually with almost 7000 active members, yes I'd say this board is a representative sample of Mac users. Other boards may have more members, but since we actively prune members who are not active, I'd say we probably have one of the highest number of active members of any Apple-based forum on the Internet.

 

[schweb]

Yes I have, and yes it can be a pain. It's also painful going through Redhat, Sun or Novell.

I notice that you've picked up on the one point that very few people ever have to deal with and ignored my other points, because if the average consumer has a problem they'll go through their vendor, not MS directly. As a sysadmin and DBA if I have a problem I call up either Dell, Sun, or Oracle, because that's what I'm paying them for.

Have you seriously tried to talk to Dell, Gateway, or HP as a normal consumer? IF that's the case I find it hard to believe that you would actually think they have anything other than substandard support at best.

Is AppleCare perfect? Nope. But with other vendors you get the magic "it's not our problem, call them..." type answers. Microsoft pushes you to the hardware vendor. The hardware vendor says call Microsoft. That is if the person you're speaking to at the Indian call center even understands what you're saying and isn't just reading the verbatim script that doesn't even answer your question.

 

[schweb]

How about practically non-existent support for legacy products? Or the litigiousness they've displayed towards operators of fan sites? Gouging customers for every OS update that comes down the pike? How about every few years Apple switching to a different codebase that is not backwards complient, jerking their developers around, which by the way, gets passed on to you?

I shudder to think of how Apple would have behaved had they become the 800 lb. gorilla of the computing world.

I seriously can't believe that yet again you're trying to pass off that Microsoft doesn't do the same thing that Apple does. The only thing you've mentioned that is Apple specific is their codebase changes.

Microsoft is just as if not more litigious with fan sites, they massively screw developers around, bully hardware vendors and smaller software companies, and a whole litany of other transgressions. I think this is hardly the argument to go into as to which OS company plays dirtier when there is only one outcome.

And honestly I question why someone who just joined yesterday is doing nothing but posting negative Apple comments in one single thread. I certainly hope you didn't come here to troll. If that's the case, I'd strongly suggest reading the forum rules.

While disagreement with Apple is fine, and I have much myself, if your only purpose of joining our community is to start anti-Apple arguments I'd ask you to rethink your stay here.

 

[spaeschke]

Microsoft is just as if not more litigious with fan sites, they massively screw developers around, bully hardware vendors and smaller software companies, and a whole litany of other transgressions. I think this is hardly the argument to go into as to which OS company plays dirtier when there is only one outcome.

They may screw developers and OEMs around, but much of that doesn't filter down directly to screwing the consumer. Apple quite often does. And I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on the litigiousness of either company. I'm certainly not saying that MS's legal team sits around idly, however I am saying that Apple seems to be far more ready to send in the lawyers at the slightest provocation. As to lack of legacy support, I don't have the slightest idea how you can even try to disagree on that. Apple has zero problem making obsolete their older hardware and software. MS, many times to their detriment, slavishly makes things backwards compatible. ****, they're still supporting hardware from the 80's.

That type of thing certainly matters to businesses, and that's a big reason you've never seen Apple in any corporate environment beyond the creative section.

And honestly I question why someone who just joined yesterday is doing nothing but posting negative Apple comments in one single thread. I certainly hope you didn't come here to troll. If that's the case, I'd strongly suggest reading the forum rules.

If you want to ban me go for it. I have nothing in particular against Apple. I'm an IT professional who works with Windows, Linux, BSD, and occassionally Apple. I'm about as platform agnostic as you can get, and I'm only too aware that every platform has strengths and weaknesses. Apple does some things extremely well, but I'm not going to join in in singing hosanas to Apple and saying they can do no wrong. It's a friggin' computer, people. It's not the be all end all, and owning one doesn't make you special.

While disagreement with Apple is fine, and I have much myself, if your only purpose of joining our community is to start anti-Apple arguments I'd ask you to rethink your stay here.

Being critical of Apple in certain areas is not being "anti-Apple". I give Apple credit where it's due and criticize them when it's due. I think perhaps a lot of you folks have your panties in a twist because you're starting to see your special little club of navel gazers slowly eroding on you.

 

[schweb]

Being critical of Apple in certain areas is not being "anti-Apple". I give Apple credit where it's due and criticize them when it's due. I think perhaps a lot of you folks have your panties in a twist because you're starting to see your special little club of navel gazers slowly eroding on you.

I'm going to let that childish remark go...this time. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt to prove you're not here to troll. Participate in other threads, make comments other than those just complaining about Apple.

I have yet to see you participate anywhere else or mention anything positive about Apple.