Monterey 12.3 and SD! 3.6

[rbpeirce]

Both upgrades came about the same time so i don't know which to blame but suddenly SD! backups have become really slow. Something that normally takes a few minutes took over 20, this between two high speed USB connections. By comparison, the same backup from the USB drive to Firewire800 over a Mini running Mavericks only took 7 minutes. It normally is a little slower. Any ideas?

 

[pine man]

I have updated both, like you. My last Smart update with SD! to a SSD via USB 4 took just over 4 minutes.

If it was your first backup since the update to Monterey it would take a little longer as there will be more new files to back up.

 

[MacInWin]

If it was a full disk backup, it had a lot more data to backup on that first run after the update to macOS. That might be part of it.

 

[rbpeirce]

It wasn't the first and it is just as slow today. Shirt-sleeve checked the log yesterday and found there were a ton of time machine backups in the log except these didn't actually occur so I have no idea what was going on.

 

[rbpeirce]

I just turned off time machine [Back Up Automatically] and the SD! transfer speed doubled. Did something change in Time Machine in 12.3?

 

[rbpeirce]

I think the problem is with 12.3. When SD! is scanning it is just as fast as before. When it is copying it becomes very slow. This is not consistent. Sometimes it copies as fast as before but sometimes not. Any idea what might be going on. From what I've read the 12.3 upgrade didn't do anything to copying from one drive to another.

 

[MacInWin]

Are normal copies slow? If not, it's not 12.3. If yes, it could be the destination drive is dying. What makes it slow is that the dying drive has to make more tries before it gets a successful write. Eventually it just dies.

So, to do some diagnostics, try just a copy of a large file or set of files to the destination drive. If it goes fast, it's not 12.3. If it does not go fast, try a different destination drive. If that goes fast, it's the drive. If it never goes fast, let us know.

Are you using a hub with these drives?

 

[rbpeirce]

Further research shows there has been some problem with hubs and Monterey, but I never experienced this until 12.3. I am going to try a direct connection to the drive tomorrow to see what happens.

I tried another transfer between the USB-C drive connected to the hub and it took 11 minutes. The same transfer on an old mini running Mavericks took 6 minutes.

Speed isn't actually critical but I would like to know why it slowed down so much. I may know more tomorrow.

 

[MacInWin]

I'm running Monterey, 12.3, and I have ten drives connected through his and all of them work just fine. Early on there were reports of issues with hubs, but not recently, AFAIK.

 

[rbpeirce]

I tried a direct connection yesterday and went thru a hub today. Both took about the same time, so hubs are not an issue, at least not the "Amazon Basics" hub I am using.

The problem seems to be the way Monterey works with USB C. Doing the identical backup on a Mini running Mavericks, USB C to Firewire 800, takes half the time compared to Monterey on my M1 MBP, USB C to USB C.

This stuff isn't time critical so I'm not going to worry about it anymore. I just hope Apple fixes it.

 

[MacInWin]

I just hope Apple fixes it.

I doubt it. If it were a system problem, there would be lots of screaming from the millions of users. Since it's not being screamed, it's probably something in YOUR setup.

 

[rbpeirce]

I doubt it. If it were a system problem, there would be lots of screaming from the millions of users. Since it's not being screamed, it's probably something in YOUR setup.

There is a lot of screaming on Google about USB C and Monterey in general. Mine is a specific problem that perhaps nobody has noticed yet. I only noticed it because I backup a particular USB C drive to another USB C drive on Monterey and to a Firewire 800 drive on Mojave. It takes twice as long on Monterey.

All my USB C drives are Seagate Expansion Portable Drives. It is possible there is something uniquely weird about them. I'll give you that.

 

[rbpeirce]

I'm sorry. Terminology issue. The drives use USB 3 not USB C. Furthermore I needed an adapter to connect this to the Thunderbolt 3 ports on my MBP. I used an adapter from Sahel I got in a 2 Pack from Amazon. Since the drives have always worked well it is possible the adapter cable is the problem, but I have no way to know that.

 

[MacInWin]

Terminology issue.

There is a world of difference in the terms. Have a read here:

Compared: USB 3, USB 4, Thunderbolt 3, Thunderbolt 4, USB-C - what you need to know | AppleInsider

With the varieties of USB and Thunderbolt terminology floating about, as well as new versions being adopted by Apple and other device producers, sorting out the mess can be a problem. Here's what you need to know about USB 3, USB 4, Thunderbolt 3, and Thunderbolt 4.

appleinsider.com

and here:

Thunderbolt vs. USB-C: The Differences Simply Explained

Thunderbolt is a USB protocol that is only available on Mac devices while USB Type-C or USB-C for short, is a USB type that supports USB version 3.2 Gen 2×2 which is the latest and fastest USB version. USB-C is available on Mac as well as PC and Android devices. But what are the differences ...

the-tech-knight.com

to start. USB-c is NOT Thunderbolt or USB3 or USB 3.1. As for the adapters, if they aren't the right ones, they can very well be a huge bottleneck.

 

[rbpeirce]

I'm aware.

 

[rbpeirce]

Here is an actual test run that took 14:57 on Monterey and 4:30 on Mavericks.

I used SuperDuper! to backup a USB 3 drive containing 567.66Gb of data, where one file of about 10Gb had been added and one deleted, to a sparsebundle on a different drive. SD! scans the source and only makes changes to the destination, so there was about 20Gb of change and another 550Gb of scan. The source has to be read by the computer and the changes written to the destination. There is a small amount of time required to mount the sparsebundle on the destination drive.

The Monterey system, a 2021 16Gb M1 MBP, consisted of a Thunderbird 3 to USB 3 adapter connected to a USB 3 hub to which two USB 3 drives, the source and the destination, were attached.

The Mavericks system, a 2012 16Gb Mac Mini, consisted of a USB 3 hub to which the USB 3 drive was attached as the source, and a Firewire 800 connected to a Drobo as the destination.

I believe the newer system should have been faster, not 3X slower. The big differences were, of course, the computers/operating systems plus the Thunderbolt 3 to USB 3 adapter cable. Both hubs have been used on the Mavericks computer at one time or another and there is no real difference there.

 

[MacInWin]

Thunderbird 3 to USB 3 adapter

Weak point.

Also, I think the port on the Mini is TB4, not TB3, so that's another mismatch.

 

[rbpeirce]

Weak point.

Also, I think the port on the Mini is TB4, not TB3, so that's another mismatch.

OK. What do I do about the adapter? Everyone I've seen seems to have the same specs. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they all came from the same source. I recognize this as a possible problem but I don't know what to do about it. Also, I'm at a loss as to how that could explain all the difference. It ought to be as fast as the hub.

I use the Firewire 800 port on the mini to connect to the Drobo. I use the TB port to connect to a DAC. However the TB port is only rated at 10Gb/s. I'm not sure what that is. TB 2?

.

 

[MacInWin]

The Monterey system, a 2021 16Gb M1 MBP, consisted of a Thunderbird 3 to USB 3 adapter connected to a USB 3 hub to which two USB 3 drives, the source and the destination, were attached.

The Mavericks system, a 2012 16Gb Mac Mini, consisted of a USB 3 hub to which the USB 3 drive was attached as the source, and a Firewire 800 connected to a Drobo as the destination.

There are so many differences in those two setups it's impossible to compare them. On the Monterey setup you are copying from one drive to another ON THE SAME HUB, which could be limiting. You are also using a third party adapter to go from TB4 to USB, which also could be a bottleneck, two ways. So, look at the path a byte has to make source-hub-adapter-mbp-adapter-hub-destination. With two potential bottlenecks on each leg, in and out. Twice through the hub, twice through the adapter.

On the Maverick system you have an entirely different path setup. Drive-hub-mac-destination. Two different paths for in and out, no conflict.

I would call it apples to oranges, but basically it's an entire fruit salad.

Is this slow performance only showing on SD!, or is it on all drive uses? You might try Blackmagic Disk Speed Test (search for it) to test the speeds you are seeing. It could be your hardware, or it could be SD!

 

[rbpeirce]

Is this slow performance only showing on SD!, or is it on all drive uses? You might try Blackmagic Disk Speed Test (search for it) to test the speeds you are seeing. It could be your hardware, or it could be SD!

I downloaded the app and it does seem to answer one question. The test on my M1 MBP shows about 118 MB/s R&W on a direct connection and 110 & 115 thru the hub. That's close enough not to matter. Connected to the mini it shows 40 MB/s. I have no idea why that should be. Could the USB 3 ports on the mini be that much different? More important, SD! backups take considerably longer on the MBP than on the mini. Shirt-pocket claims it shouldn't matter but apparently it does!