MAJOR HELP NEEDED! - re: 840GB of "Hidden" files and "Disk Error" due to iCloud Drive

[jman995x]

New Wrinkle...

I installed the USB, downloaded the Mojave OS from the App Store and was given a choice where to save it.
I chose the USB (which is greyed out), and was given the error message in the top window.
I opened Disk Utility, selected the USB, erased it, then selected "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)", which I'm assuming is what is meant when it says "Select Volume Scheme".
I then clicked erase, again, which it did.
But....the Mojave Installer still doesn't recognize the USB drive.
Is this, once again, because I have an outdated Disk Utility and this modern-day error message would be fixable with a modern-day Disk Utility, but the "GUID Partition Table Scheme" isn't available on my older Disk Utility?

 

[ferrarr]

You can't just "save" a macOS to. a USB drive, you need to make it into a bootable drive. See this, https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372.

 

[jman995x]

You can't just "save" a macOS to. a USB drive, you need to make it into a bootable drive. See this, https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372.

Duh...too much multitasking...forgot to read the rest of the document on how to create the bootable installer.

Having said that, I've done everything the instructions said, but received a slightly different completion message than the screenshot on the webpage. I'm assuming, though, that the process was completed correctly.



Now...
The process changed the name of my 64GB USB drive to "Install macOS Mojave" and shows it mounted in the Finder menu on the left...HOWEVER, said USB is NOT showing up as an option in my
Preferences > Startup Disk screen.



I'm assuming because this is the INSTALLER APP, and not the actual OS, correct?

If I'm correct in that assumption, I then am going to restart my computer in Recovery Mode and when asked where I'd like to boot from just choose the USB Stick and the rest of the process should be self evident, correct?

 

[MacInWin]

Ok, back to some basics. The screens you showed with options for where to install Mojave are for INSTALLING Mojave. And Mojave requires APFS as the drive format. And the disk Utility you pictured is from BEFORE Mojave, so it doesn't show APFS.

Now let's look at your questions: Warning, this is going to be long.

Ok, just to make sure I understand what you're saying:

When I upgraded to Mojave, it changed my drive format from HFS+ to APFS, and therefore the version of Disk Utility that came with my machine when it was new, didn't know that in the future (read: now) there would be such at thing as APFS, so Disk Utility is looking at APFS like a side dish it didn't order, correct?

Yes, and it will never work with Mojave.

I ran Disk Utility from the internal 3TB Fusion HDD that came with my machine, and therefore if I do a reinstall it'll install the original OS X that came with the system (I think, Lion), and then I'll have to spend time to upgrade to Mojave...but even though I'll have done that, the reinstall will give me the older version of Disk Utility, which will once again look at the new APFS format like a side dish it didn't order, and I might be left with more (false) "Disk Error" messages.

Disk Utility does not install the OS.There are separate processes to do that. And the installer for Mojave should reformat the drive to use APFS as part of the installation. At least it will if there is an OS on the drive already and that OS is being upgraded. That's how it's supposed to work. I'm pretty sure it will change any drive as it is installed to that drive to APFS as part of the process.

I can install Mojave from the link you sent me without having to do anything before hand (PROVIDED that I my current drive backed up via CCC, correct?).
I do this via a bootable installer I'm going to make on a USB stick containing said Mojave OS.

Yes, the link I provided is from Apple about how to install Mojave. Read the entire thing until you have firm grasp on what it is you need to do, step by step. Maybe even print it off to have at hand as you go through the process.

Here's where I need some clarification...


Once I have booted from the USB Stick (which I'm assuming I do by restarting the machine in Recovery Mode, then selecting the USB Stick as the boot source, correct?).

Yes. Boot holding down the CMD+R keys until the options screen appears for the boot options. Select the USB stick.

I then choose the Disk Utility (FROM THE USB STICK AS WELL, correct?)...

When it is booted, you will have a screen with four options. One of those options is Disk Utility. That Disk Utility will be the proper DU for Mojave. Use that to partition and format the internal drive to APFS. (Make a backup before you start any of this, obviously.)

Erase the drive(s)...
Quit Disk Utility...
Reinstall the (new Mojave) OS from the USB Stick...

Once the install is complete, it should either boot directly to the new installation or go back to the four options screen. I don't remember which. In either event, you will want to boot into the new installation on the internal drive. It will then ask some setup questions about language and time, including one about encrypting the entire drive with File Vault (I recommend you not use that because if you lose the password, the drive will be locked permanently. FV also has some issues with updates, or has had them. I don't use FV at all, personally.) and then offer to restore from backup, old drive, etc. Take that option to restore. That will launch Migration Assistant.

Use Migration Assistant to restore from the CCC backup...

Yep.

Now for the second set:

installed the USB, downloaded the Mojave OS from the App Store and was given a choice where to save it.

Already addressed this above.

I chose the USB (which is greyed out), and was given the error message in the top window.
I opened Disk Utility, selected the USB, erased it, then selected "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)", which I'm assuming is what is meant when it says "Select Volume Scheme".
I then clicked erase, again, which it did.
But....the Mojave Installer still doesn't recognize the USB drive.
Is this, once again, because I have an outdated Disk Utility and this modern-day error message would be fixable with a modern-day Disk Utility, but the "GUID Partition Table Scheme" isn't available on my older Disk Utility?

Yes, old Disk Utility. Make the bootable USB stick following the directions. NOTE: GUID is set in the Partition button, not in the format button, so first do a Partition, create ONE partition that is GUID, then select that partition in the left column when it is indented and ERASE it to format as Mac OS Extended (Journaled). Once that is done, the process to create the bootable installer will continue.

Will I need CCC to be installed in order to do this, or a clone is a clone and my iMac, now running Mojave, will have access to this clone?

CCC should be on the clone. You can do a quick check if you want to, but if you use Migration Assistant to retrieve from the CCC clone, it won't matter if CCC is on the drive or not. If for any reason it's NOT on the CCC backup drive, you can reinstall it to the new internal drive after the Migration Assistant is done.

Will Migration Assistant let me pick-and-choose which files I want replaced (because in addition to NOT wanting the bloated "System" file replaced, there may be other large files that I don't reinstalled due to lack of use, and would rather just keep in the clone backup)?

Yes, you can select what you want to restore. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204350 has detailed instructions on how MA works and what to expect as you use it. You might want to print that one, too.

I'm supremely confident that this screwup was a result of iCloud somehow confusing my computer, as it would be almost statisitcally impossible for me to have deleted 840GBs of information on one day, and then have my computer not only suck the next day, but also have that exact amount of space clogging my "System" folder. So, when you say by wiping out the computer and doing a fresh install I won't know what exactly caused the problem, at this point I need my computer and my life back and much as I'd like to know the exact culprit, I just don't have any more time to spend playing Columbo.
So, I'll wait for your confirmation that I have everything correct, and will then pull the trigger with the Backup/USB Bootable Installer/Disk Utility Erase/Reinstall OS Mojave/Migration Assistant process.

I'm not so supremely confident that iCloud caused the problem. But that doesn't matter at this point. Get back in the water and you can look for the cause if it starts to fill up again.

 

[jman995x]

Hello Jake,

Thanks for the lengthy reply.
Hopefully my clarification questions/replies are not as lengthy.

Disk Utility does not install the OS.There are separate processes to do that. And the installer for Mojave should reformat the drive to use APFS as part of the installation. At least it will if there is an OS on the drive already and that OS is being upgraded. That's how it's supposed to work. I'm pretty sure it will change any drive as it is installed to that drive to APFS as part of the process.

^^^^^^
I understand that DU does not install the OS, but thanks for clarifying.
Also, I thought I read somewhere that Fusion Drives couldn't be upgraded to APFS. Does that sound right?

NOTE: GUID is set in the Partition button, not in the format button, so first do a Partition, create ONE partition that is GUID, then select that partition in the left column when it is indented and ERASE it to format as Mac OS Extended (Journaled). Once that is done, the process to create the bootable installer will continue.

^^^^^^
I seem to remember that the "Partition" button was greyed out when I clicked on the USB drive in DU.
Having said that, I erased the USB drive entirely, followed the directions to install the "install macOS Mojave App" on the USB drive using the Terminal commands on the instruction webpage, and was given this Terminal result:



IS THIS USB BOOTABLE, even though I didn't partition the USB Stick?
Since the SOLE purpose of this USB Stick (at the moment) is to serve as a Bootable "Drive" to get me to the point where I can deiiver its package to my iMac's OS for installation, and I don't care what else is on the USB, do I still need to partition it in order for this to be a viable Boot "Drive"?
In other words, since I didn't partition the USB Stick, even though Terminal is indicating that it is good to go as a Bootable Drive, is that incorrect, and I, in fact, need to re-erase the USB Stick, partition it, and the do the Terminal installaton command again?

Sorry, I know a lot of this stuff is second nature to you and therefore very simple, but I'm just learning this stuff and don't want to screw anything up.

Thanks,

Justin

 

[jman995x]

UPDATE....

I just found another article that states that APFS will finally be supported on Fusion Drives with the release of Mojave 10.14 (which I have, and obviously just downloaded and put on the USB Stick...so, you can negate that question from the post above).

Thanks.

 

[MacInWin]

Yes, the USB stick should now be bootable. You can put it in the USB slot, boot the machine with CMD+R or Option held down and wait until the options appear. Select the USB drive and boot. You should end up at the four options screen and can then pick what you want. I'd start with Disk Utility to partition/format the internal SSD to make sure it's GUID and APFS. Then do the Install and let it rip.

 

[jman995x]

Yes, the USB stick should now be bootable. You can put it in the USB slot, boot the machine with CMD+R or Option held down and wait until the options appear. Select the USB drive and boot. You should end up at the four options screen and can then pick what you want. I'd start with Disk Utility to partition/format the internal SSD to make sure it's GUID and APFS. Then do the Install and let it rip.

Ok.....

Just want to confirm the process one more time, because I seem to recall some steps from earlier posts that said that I'd have to (once booted from the USB), then open up DU, ERASE the drives, quit DU, THEN install the OS.
So, when you say, "with DU, partition/format the internal SSD to make sure it's GUID and APFS"...will that also erase the rest of the FUSION Drive in the process, creating a clean slate as it were?.... or do I for some reason no longer need to erase the drives as that will automatically happen during the process you listed above?

 

[MacInWin]

Yes, that is what you do. The Fusion drive will look like ONE drive to you and to the installer. The entire thing will end up being APFS. I mis-spoke about the SSD, I thought you had an internal SSD, but that's from another thread. So, open DU, verify the the internal drive is GUID and has one partition on it. Frankly, at that point you can Quit out of DU, then run the Mojave installer and it will format the drive for you with APFS and recovery partitions and everything it needs.

 

[jman995x]

Yes, that is what you do. The Fusion drive will look like ONE drive to you and to the installer. The entire thing will end up being APFS. I mis-spoke about the SSD, I thought you had an internal SSD, but that's from another thread. So, open DU, verify the the internal drive is GUID and has one partition on it. Frankly, at that point you can Quit out of DU, then run the Mojave installer and it will format the drive for you with APFS and recovery partitions and everything it needs.

OHHH....KAY....now we're cooking with gas.

Thank you VERY MUCH for all of your help and taking the time to walk me through everything.

I REALLY appreciate it.

I'll let you know if I have any hiccups.

Have a good night.

Best regards,

Justin

 

[jman995x]

So...kinda screwed at the moment...

So, CCC finally finished cloning my iMac's Drive.

I inserted the USB that I formatted and installed the macOS Mojave Installer App on yesterday.

I rebooted into Recovery Mode.

Disk Utility showed that my drive was 1 Partition, set up as APFS.

I quit DU and then selected Install New OS, but the USB Stick was greyed out and it showed me the following message:



So...I followed those instructions and reformatted/wiped out the USB drive.

I then went to my MacBook Pro (17", Mid-2009, El Capitan 10.11.6).

Installed the USB drive, went to the App Store to download a copy of the macOS Mojave Install App and was given an error message that it can't be downloaded or installed on my MacBook Pro.

So...I went back to the boot options on my iMac and selected Internet Help.
It took me to an Apple Page that gave me these instructions:



But I wasn't paying attention and thought, "Okay, so I have to reinstall all the way back to Mountain Lion, and then will just upgrade to Mojave from there," forgetting that the Drive is now formatted for APFS, yet this Disk Utility has problems interfacing with said drive.....so now I have a Spinning Beach Ball of Death on my iMac, and the message and status bar you see in the picture below has been the same for the better part of an hour:




SOOOO.....

1. Since my iMac is locked down with an older DU trying to figure out what APFS, and therefore my iMac is a big paperweight at the moment...
2. And the fact that my MacBook Pro is old enough that the App Store won't even let me download the macOS Mojave Installer App because it thinks that I'm trying to install it to my MacBook instead of trying to use it for a Bootable USB Stick...
3. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE UPLOAD/SEND ME the macOS Mojave Installer App from the App Store so that I can use Terminal on my MacBook Pro to create a Bootable USB Stick....again?

I'm assuming, that even though my iMac is stuck, that I can do a Hard Reset, Boot from the USB Stick (once I've created it), and via the installation process, my iMac's Fusion Drive will be reformatted...correct?

 

[MacInWin]

The installer is only available on the store. The mistake you made is in the first image. You selected the USB stick to reformat, when what you wanted to select was Macintosh HD. You cannot format the drive from which you are booted. You can see that the error is pointing to the USB drive.

EDIT: At this point if the machine is still sitting at that error, and you cannot move from there, just power it off by holding the power button for 10 seconds. Then see if it will boot. From the error message, it hasn't done anything to the internal drive yet. If you can, you can recreate the boot stick again. Or try booting from it again, it may still be usable, it's hard to tell

If that doesn't work:

What I would suggest at this time is to plug in the CCC backup and boot from there. Then you can recreate the USB bootable stick again and redo the process you started, but install Mojave to the Macintosh HD, not the Installer. Or you can go the long way and boot from the CCC backup, clone it back to the internal drive, boot from there, recreate the USB stick and try again.

As for the fate of the fusion drive, it is impossible at this point to tell what you are going to end up with. Having run DU from a system that doesn't support either APFS or Fusion drives, the state of the drive is decidedly in the "unknown" category. With any luck, unless you did something to it, it may still be "fused" for Mojave. If it has become unfused it will appear as an SSD and a separate HD. If that has happened it is possible to re-fuse them, but the process is tricky. Given the struggle you are having, I would not recommend it for you. If it's become unfused, I would recommend you find a reliable Mac repair person to fix the mess.

 

[Rod]

I didnt think fusion drives could be formatted APFS?
That aside, can you hold down the option key on startup with your CCC backup attached and see if you can boot from that? It will be slow but if you did it right it should work. If so you can reverse the process and copy your clone back to the iMac. This may take some hours.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[MacInWin]

Rod, Mojave does support fusion drives formatted APFS, and makes the change silently on install of Mojave. I think his drive may still be ok, but he keeps going back to an old version of Disk Utility to look at it and it thinks the drive has failed because it doesn't understand APFS. And then he thinks he needs to "fix" the drive when it may well be perfectly good. The only reason for wanting to reinstall Mojave clean is to get the muck cleaned out that is taking up 840GB of the drive. I also think the USB drive is still OK, and may well be bootable and usable.

 

[jman995x]

The installer is only available on the store. The mistake you made is in the first image. You selected the USB stick to reformat, when what you wanted to select was Macintosh HD. You cannot format the drive from which you are booted. You can see that the error is pointing to the USB drive.

Thanks for the timely reply.
I'm a little confused about your message...while I did reformat the USB yesterday to create the USB Bootable Stick, the first picture in the post above shows that for some reason my iMac doesn't think the USB Stick was GUID Partitioned.
I was actually in Recovery Mode, trying to boot from (what I thought/was told by Terminal), was a ready-to-go Bootable USB Stick.

Am I missing something?...

 

[MacInWin]

From your pictures, you were trying to install Mojave to the the USB stick and it was complaining that it couldn't do that because of GUID. It may well have been more that it was the boot drive and that it was an installer thumb drive so GUID really isn't that critical. Once you boot with CMD-R or Option, you get a list of all bootable drives, one of which is the USB drive. Select that to boot. Then when you run the installer, you again see a set of drives to which you can install. If you look at your first image, it is from the installer, but you have selected the USB drive as the target and it has reported it cannot install. Had you used the arrow keys to move over the the Macintosh HD (which is the internal drive) it would have installed. But you didn't do that. You said you used Disk Utility to wipe out the USB drive, but you cannot do that if it is the boot drive, so you must have booted to something else, or moved the stick to a different machine to do that. You didn't say how you did the wiping. And that is why I said it *might* be usable still. Because if you tried to wipe it while booted from it, the wipe did NOT happen. The OS cannot wipe out the drive from which it is booted.

Let me caution you that doing what you are doing is a little bit like juggling dynamite. You really do have to read the instructions given, read the screens you see, double, triple check before you start processes. Reinstalling the OS is not difficult, if you follow the directions exactly, but you can end up with a very expensive door stop if you do it wrong.

I think the machine is still recoverable, in fact, may well be still be bootable from the internal drive. If so, you can use it to create the bootable USB if you need to. But I would try to boot from the USB thumb drive because it may well still be bootable and usable. If not, boot from the internal on the iMac and recreate the thumb drive installer, then boot from that and very carefully select "Macintosh HD" as the drive on which you want to install Mojave. And I would also disconnect all of the external drives from the machine while doing that, just for safety sake. I see other drives in the first image and you don't want to make a mistake and install to any of them. So disconnect any and all drives other than the iMac internal and the USB thumb drive for the installation process.

 

[jman995x]

From your pictures, you were trying to install Mojave to the the USB stick and it was complaining that it couldn't do that because of GUID. It may well have been more that it was the boot drive and that it was an installer thumb drive so GUID really isn't that critical. Once you boot with CMD-R or Option, you get a list of all bootable drives, one of which is the USB drive. Select that to boot. Then when you run the installer, you again see a set of drives to which you can install. If you look at your first image, it is from the installer, but you have selected the USB drive as the target and it has reported it cannot install. Had you used the arrow keys to move over the the Macintosh HD (which is the internal drive) it would have installed. But you didn't do that. You said you used Disk Utility to wipe out the USB drive, but you cannot do that if it is the boot drive, so you must have booted to something else, or moved the stick to a different machine to do that. You didn't say how you did the wiping. And that is why I said it *might* be usable still. Because if you tried to wipe it while booted from it, the wipe did NOT happen. The OS cannot wipe out the drive from which it is booted.

Let me caution you that doing what you are doing is a little bit like juggling dynamite. You really do have to read the instructions given, read the screens you see, double, triple check before you start processes. Reinstalling the OS is not difficult, if you follow the directions exactly, but you can end up with a very expensive door stop if you do it wrong.

I think the machine is still recoverable, in fact, may well be still be bootable from the internal drive. If so, you can use it to create the bootable USB if you need to. But I would try to boot from the USB thumb drive because it may well still be bootable and usable. If not, boot from the internal on the iMac and recreate the thumb drive installer, then boot from that and very carefully select "Macintosh HD" as the drive on which you want to install Mojave. And I would also disconnect all of the external drives from the machine while doing that, just for safety sake. I see other drives in the first image and you don't want to make a mistake and install to any of them. So disconnect any and all drives other than the iMac internal and the USB thumb drive for the installation process.

Back in Business!

I thought there has to be a way around downloading directly from the App Store, and came across this guy’s “Patcher” App:

http://dosdude1.com/mojave/

Totally saved my ***.
Easy to use, step-by-step instructions.
Worked like a charm.

@Jake
Thank you SO much for all of your help.
I appreciate your diligence in trying to walk me through the unknown, as well as my screwups.
Greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Justin

 

[IWT]

How about giving Jake the thumbs-up, Justin? He deserves it for all his effort

Ian