MacPro 1,1 + nVidia 8800GT + Snow = ?

[dcouzin]

Are there other people with the MacPro 1,1 (the 2006-1007 model with Intel processor) and the nVidia GEForce 8800GT graphics card and a Snow Leopard OSX. Does their system also do the weird thing mine does?

The 8800GT has firmware ROM rev. 3233 to be used in the MacPro 1,1. I noticed my problem after fresh installing OSX 10.6. It didn't change with updating to OSX 10.6.8.

The problem: color profiles don't work. Different "parts" of the screen get different treatments. A simple experiment illustrates this.

System Preferences > Displays > Color > Calibrate > Expert Mode > Continue > Continue > Continue > Continue > Continue > Continue > Continue > move gamma slider to 1.0 > Continue > Continue > Continue > Continue > Done.

Ignore the sliders except when setting gamma. As the gamma slider moves to 1.0 the desktop picture becomes very pale, as it should. But four Continue's later it reverts to a normal gamma. Yet notice that the icons on the screen are still very pale.

You can run through the calibration procedure again moving the gamma slider to 2.6. Then you have three calibrations to compare: the original default for your monitor, a gamma 1.0 version, and a gamma 2.6 version. As you toggle between these you notice that the desktop picture changes very slightly, nowhere near what the difference between gamma 1.0 and 2.6 implies. But the icons on the desktop and in the dock change greatly, as they should. The toggling itself is glitchy. For a split second the desktop picture does show the calibration gamma, then it reverts.

Choose the gamma 1.0 calibration. Do a screen grab. Open the screen grab tiff with Preview. The tiff image exactly matches the desktop it grabbed. Leave the tiff open while switching to the gamma 2.6 calibration. The tiff image becomes extremely dark while the desktop hardly changes. Open a tiff of your own and it too responds correctly to the calibration toggling. At this point you might think the whole problem is with how the OS is handing the desktop picture. But open a .mov file with QuickTime. It changes hardly at all to toggling the profile between the very different gammas.

Is this normal for MacPro 1,1 + nVidia 8800GT + Snow, or is there something wrong with my MacPro 1,1 or my nVidia 8800GT or my Snow?

(There's none of this silliness when back in Leopard 10.5.8. Indeed the color profiles created in Snow Leopard work properly in Leopard.)

 

[dcouzin]

An amazing corollary. Choose the gamma 1.0 calibration for the display. Do a screen grab and save it. Choose the gamma 2.6 calibration for the display. Do a screen grab and save it. Now open both screen grabs. The gamma 1.0 one is much darker than the gamma 2.6 one! This remains so regardless of which profile now chosen for the display.

 

[pigoo3]

An amazing corollary. Choose the gamma 1.0 calibration for the display. Do a screen grab and save it. Choose the gamma 2.6 calibration for the display. Do a screen grab and save it. Now open both screen grabs. The gamma 1.0 one is much darker than the gamma 2.6 one! This remains so regardless of which profile now chosen for the display.

Are you a professional digital artist, photographer, or something? You seem to be spending a lot of time on this.

From what I reading thus far (and the lack of ever hearing or remembering anyone else having this issue when upgrading from OS 10.5 to 10.6)...I'm more likely to believe that there's a hardware issue rather than software (have you looked for any updated drivers for your video card)?

But I have no facts to base this on...since I'm not sitting in front of your computer to see what you're seeing.

- Nick

 

[dcouzin]

have you looked for any updated drivers for your video card?

Nick: nVidia offers a driver for Snow Leopard for their 8800GT video card. However this driver won't install in my MacPro1,1: "Unsupported System / This computer will not support this NVIDIA graphics solution." Clearly there is incompatibility between my MacPro1,1, my nVidia 8800GT, and my Snow Leopard. The question remains: is this so for others' too?

Maybe a funny YouTube video can be made of this.

Note added: video came out sadder than funny and won't be shown.

 

[harryb2448]

The driver for the 8800GT is included in the operating system software. There are in fact two different 8800GT cards. Originally they were released for the Mac Pro 2.1 with 1.66GHz system bus speed. Later on a 1.33GHz card was released. Make sure you have got the correct one.

 

[dcouzin]

The driver for the 8800GT is included in the operating system software. There are in fact two different 8800GT cards. Originally they were released for the Mac Pro 2.1 with 1.66GHz system bus speed. Later on a 1.33GHz card was released. Make sure you have got the correct one.

Yes, I see driver 1.6.36 with OSX 10.6.8, and it was a different driver with OSX 10.6, and yet a different driver OSX 10.5.8. So the Mac OSX is providing a GeForce driver. The nVidia site recommends later drivers for the 8800GT, but they don't work with the MacPro 1,1 (or 2,1).

My 8800GT was sold/flashed by applemacanix. It worked perfectly in the MacPro1,1 for two years with Leopard (and still does). System Profiler doesn't reveal whether the card is for 1.33GHz or 1.66GHz. It only reveals the firmware rev. 3233. Can the firmware be what determines the bus speed, rather than there being two different 8800GT cards?

 

[pigoo3]

My 8800GT was sold/flashed by applemacanix. It worked perfectly in the MacPro1,1 for two years with Leopard (and still does).

Yupp...there you go. We could have ended this discussion a longgg time ago if it was clear in the beginning that you were using a "flashed" 8800GT in your Mac Pro.

A flashed Windows card used in a Macintosh...is still NOT a genuine Macintosh video card. When that video card was flashed...OS 10.5 was used. When you upgraded to 10.6...that changed all the rules. That card wasn't flashed with OS 10.6 in mind...and it certainly will have trouble working with OS 10.7 as well.

Flashed video cards are NOT supported when OS upgrades come out. Get yourself a "REAL" Macintosh video card!

- Nick

 

[dcouzin]

Yupp...there you go. We could have ended this discussion a longgg time ago if it was clear in the beginning that you were using a "flashed" 8800GT in your Mac Pro.

A flashed Windows card used in a Macintosh...is still NOT a genuine Macintosh video card. When that video card was flashed...OS 10.5 was used. When you upgraded to 10.6...that changed all the rules. That card wasn't flashed with OS 10.6 in mind...and it certainly will have trouble working with OS 10.7 as well.

Flashed video cards are NOT supported when OS upgrades come out. Get yourself a "REAL" Macintosh video card!

- Nick

There are no "REAL" Macintosh video cards available for the MacPro1,1. The "REAL" 8800GT for MacPro1,1 was available for just a short while from Apple, and when I missed that opportunity I bought the unreal one from applemacanix. According to what you say, almost everyone who bought the applemacanix flashed card for MacPro1,1 should have experienced the same probem as me since by now they've tried Snow Leopard. Where are these reports of trouble?

Are you sure that the difference between the 8800GT sold by Apple for the early MacPro's and the 8800GT for Windows was more than a firmware difference? According to applemacanix, the firmware in their 8800GT for early MacPro is identical to the firmware in Apple's 8800GT for early MacPro, and I don't doubt them.

 

[pigoo3]

There are no "REAL" Macintosh video cards available for the MacPro1,1.

Let me advise you of one thing before you start making statements like the one you made above!!! I KNOW what I'm talking about...and the statement you made above could not be more wrong. I used to own a Mac Pro 1,1...so I know EXACTLY what's available!!!

What the heck do you mean "There are no "REAL" Macintosh video cards available for the MacPro1,1."???

For your information...here are three video card models available for the Mac Pro 1,1:

- NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT
- Radeon X1900
- NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500

There are a couple more that can be used as well...and most the time, these video cards can be found on e-Bay.

If you're using a flashed video card...you get what you pay for. A flashed Windows video card...that is then used in a Macintosh computer is never quite as good as a 100% "official" Macintosh card.

The bottom line for this thread is...you're using a flashed video card in your Mac Pro...and that is the source of all the problems...PERIOD!!!

- Nick

 

[pigoo3]

According to what you say, almost everyone who bought the applemacanix flashed card for MacPro1,1 should have experienced the same probem as me since by now they've tried Snow Leopard. Where are these reports of trouble?

Regarding this...there are no (or very few) reports of this...because most Mac Pro users don't use flashed video cards. Why would someone pay thousands of dollars for a Mac Pro...and then use a cheap quality flashed video card!

Also.."applemacanix" is really not that well known of a supplier...so let's not act like they're the"holy grail" of Macintosh parts suppliers. And you know what else...no self-respecting Macintosh parts supplier would sell flashed video cards!!!

Oh yeah...I just did an internet search. "Applemacanix" is just some e-Bay seller selling flashed video cards (amongst other things). So they are certainly no reputable parts seller that "mainstream" Macintosh users would be purchasing things from!!!

- Nick

 

[dcouzin]

...What the heck do you mean "There are no "REAL" Macintosh video cards available for the MacPro1,1."???...

I mean available brand new.
Video cards often get hard use causing short life. If I too may have a prejudice, it's against buying used video cards.

 

[pigoo3]

I mean available brand new.

Of course video cards for a 5 year-old 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 are no longer available brand new. Apple stopped selling them in 2008 when the Mac Pro 2,1 was introduced.

I Video cards often get hard use causing short life.f I too may have a prejudice, it's against buying used video cards.

Yes video cards can get used hard. I sold my Mac Pro 1,1 about 6 months again when it was 4.5 years old...and it still had it's original X-1900 video card...still running just fine.

As far as used video cards (or used computers). Absolutely nothing wrong with them. Yes they are used...but you get them at a reduced price...and they work 100%. WAY BETTER than a brand new "flashed" Windows video card...that will NEVER work 100% as well as a genuine Macintosh video card.

I've been using Macintosh computers for 25 years...and I haven't purchased a new Macintosh computer in 15 years. One of my current Mac's is a 2009 8-core Mac Pro...it's running GREAT!!! And I purchased a 2nd USED video card for it off e-Bay (now I can runs 4 monitors on my Mac Pro)...and this 2nd used video card is running fine too!

And guess what...when you buy a used computer...you get a used video card in that computer as well. Nothing wrong with used computers or used video cards!

I would purchase a "genuine" used Macintosh video WELL BEFORE I would purchase a brand new "flashed" Windows video card for use in a Macintosh.

- Nick

 

[dcouzin]

Why would someone pay thousands of dollars for a Mac Pro...and then use a cheap quality flashed video card!

Every video card is flashed. There is firmware flashed into the card's ROM. Different firmwares can make the same card compatible with different computers. The applemacanix cards are indeed re-flashed with new firmware. Reflashing doesn't reduce the card's quality. If the only difference between the Apple supplied 8800GT for MacPro1,1 and the Windows 8800GT is in the firmware, then reflashing with a copy of the Apple firmware is a fine idea (technologically). Neither pigoo3 nor I know whether the firmware was the only difference in this case.

 

[dcouzin]

Of course video cards for a 5 year-old 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 are no longer available brand new. Apple stopped selling them in 2008 when the Mac Pro 2,1 was introduced.

I bought my MacPro1,1 new in October 2007. In September 2009, when its original 7300 GT failed, Apple had already quit selling graphics cards for it. No decent manufacturer (of "professional" equipment) leaves its customers to scramble for replacement parts so soon.

 

[pigoo3]

The bottom line as far as this thread goes...your video problems are due to using a "flashed" Windows video card in your Mac Pro...instead of using a genuine Macintosh video card.

Whatever firmware this video card was flashed with may have been fine when using OS 10.5...but when you upgraded to 10.6...that firmware just isn't/wasn't fully compatible. And you can expect the same issues (or additional issues)...if you ever try to upgrade your Mac Pro to OS 10.7.

- Nick

p.s. By the way...you may also like to know two more things:

1. In some cases...there are physical differences between the same video card made for a Windows computer and a Macintosh computer (not just a firmware difference).
2. There actually is a video card being sold brand new that is compatible with Mac Pro 1,1's. But you seem to be a very knowledgeable person (since you don't seem to find the info I've supplied so far to be of much use)...so I'll let you do your own research to find it!

 

[dcouzin]

...There actually is a video card being sold brand new that is compatible with Mac Pro 1,1's. ...

I'd be interested in hearing about any graphics card being sold brand new that is fully compatible with the MacPro1,1 with Snow Leopard.

Apple Store sells the ATI Radeon HD5770 as compatible with the MacPro5,1 -- not earlier. People have reported that the HD5770 works in their MacPro1,1, but only with limitations. One limitation is blackout pre-boot.

What's a bad limitation for one user is not necessarily important for another. Users who aren't into making color profiles for their display(s) would probably find how my <MacPro 1,1 + nVidia 8800GT + Snow> works just fine.