Macbook A1181 (early 2008) stopped reading keyboard and TouchPad

[DarthStaalwart]

Greetings, everyone! I got an old MacBook early 2008 white for free, no battery but MagSafe. I tested it when I received, and verified that everything worked despite being with no battery - keyboard, touchpad, screen, sound, Airport, etc. It has MacOS 10.5 Leopard, and I intend to upgrade it to Lion.

Now, here's the deal. After I tested it, it went okay until I arrived home. Here, I turned it on again, saw that was set up with a Canadian dictionary and switched it to US, and then I added my own WiFi network. Everything kept working. But upon restart... First, the touchpad stopped working. Tried to start it in safe mode, holding Shift, and went in; a previous user name appeared, and asked for a password. Not knowing it, and being that I wanted to do a factory reset anyway, I restarted it again in a normal boot. This time not only the touchpad but also the keyboard itself stopped working. The power button still works though. The Caps Lock LED does not turn on. It's like the keyboard/touchpad assembly were suddenly disconnected...

Now, I read that MacBooks sometimes do that; what I didn't understand is, why all of a sudden, and seemingly in "phases" (first the pad, then the keyboard)? I didn't move anything, unplugged anything or done anything unusual to it. I can open and check it up - I have the tools for the job - but I really wanted to know if there's some non-invasive way to check it up. I could try to connect an external USB mouse and keyboard, but I only have Windows ones (don't think it will be an issue, but as a Mac newbie I have to ask).

Thoughts?

 

[Rod]

To start with it sounds like the previous owner had Auto Login enabled because it did not ask for an Admin Password until you started changing things in System Preferences ie the Language setting.
As it was free you cant really blame the previous owner (PO) for that, maybe they didn't know it either.
Of course the normal expectation would be for the PO to log out of services like iTunes, Messages and so on then erase the device, reinstalling the original MacOS thus leaving it in the Setup Assistant for the next user.
Now here's the catch, erasing and reinstalling MacOSX 10.5 (Leopard) requires the retail bootable installation DVD. Here is a pretty good step by step description of the process; https://www.wikihow.com/Reinstall-Mac-OS-X-(Leopard-and-Earlier)
Alternatively the original instal disks which came with the device for the MacOS that was installed when new.
If neither of these are available and you have a Mac that originally came with 10.4 from the factory, then you can use the 10.6.3 white Snow Leopard retail disks to boot the device, erase it and instal MacOSX 10.6. Apple used to sell these for about $20 but I'm sorry to say I think they have stopped. You will probably find them on Amazon or eBay as most people only use them once.

 

[DarthStaalwart]

To start with it sounds like the previous owner had Auto Login enabled because it did not ask for an Admin Password until you started changing things in System Preferences ie the Language setting.
As it was free you cant really blame the previous owner (PO) for that, maybe they didn't know it either.
Of course the normal expectation would be for the PO to log out of services like iTunes, Messages and so on then erase the device, reinstalling the original MacOS thus leaving it in the Setup Assistant for the next user.
Now here's the catch, erasing and reinstalling MacOSX 10.5 (Leopard) requires the retail bootable installation DVD. Here is a pretty good step by step description of the process; https://www.wikihow.com/Reinstall-Mac-OS-X-(Leopard-and-Earlier)
Alternatively the original instal disks which came with the device for the MacOS that was installed when new.
If neither of these are available and you have a Mac that originally came with 10.4 from the factory, then you can use the 10.6.3 white Snow Leopard retail disks to boot the device, erase it and instal MacOSX 10.6. Apple used to sell these for about $20 but I'm sorry to say I think they have stopped. You will probably find them on Amazon or eBay as most people only use them once.

I hear you... You think that's the reason the touchpad and keyboard are freezing/locking up?

Note: this morning I turned on the device again. The touchpad worked now. I was able to enter Finder, and About this Mac. Everything okay. Then I pressed the Caps Lock button... It turned the green LED on, and then it turned off by itself like a second after that (without me pressing anything). And promptly the touchpad stopped working as well.

It cannot be a hardware issue. I'm beginning to think it's something security- or software-based. You think it might be a security lock placed by the previous owner? Again, I stress that I'm a DOS/UNIX/Linux/Windows owner, operator and administrator almost since I was 7 years old (I'm 45 now), and this is my very first experience with an Intel-based Mac with a Mac OS X installed. Can you guide me on this?

 

[chscag]

It cannot be a hardware issue. I'm beginning to think it's something security- or software-based. You think it might be a security lock placed by the previous owner? Again, I stress that I'm a DOS/UNIX/Linux/Windows owner, operator and administrator almost since I was 7 years old (I'm 45 now), and this is my very first experience with an Intel-based Mac with a Mac OS X installed. Can you guide me on this?

It does sound very much like a hardware problem. A 2008 White Macbook is now close to 13 years old and there is no telling how long this particular machine was left unattended. You pointed out that it had no battery installed - that's a good indication. The keyboard cable could be defective or the keyboard itself. The trackpad is likewise attached.

I could try to connect an external USB mouse and keyboard, but I only have Windows ones (don't think it will be an issue, but as a Mac newbie I have to ask).

That's a good way to trouble shoot. A Windows keyboard and USB mouse should work okay. The Windows key corresponds to the command key on a Mac keyboard. However, you should be able to boot with the external keyboard and mouse.

You mentioned that you wanted to install Lion. We do not recommend Lion but instead as Rod pointed out, Snow Leopard (retail DVD) is best to use.

Keep in mind that the 2008 White MacBook is going to have some deterioration of cables and parts. The SATA cable (cable that attaches the hard drive to the logic board) is probably worn and will have to be changed out. Also, the hard drive if it is the original, should be tested.

We suggest going to this site: www.ifixit.com and look up the model and go through the repair procedures.

I might add that I owned that exact MacBook many years ago and it was a good machine for the years I used it.

Let us know if you need more help with it and thanks for joining our forums.

 

[DarthStaalwart]

It does sound very much like a hardware problem. A 2008 White Macbook is now close to 13 years old and there is no telling how long this particular machine was left unattended. You pointed out that it had no battery installed - that's a good indication. The keyboard cable could be defective or the keyboard itself. The trackpad is likewise attached.



That's a good way to trouble shoot. A Windows keyboard and USB mouse should work okay. The Windows key corresponds to the command key on a Mac keyboard. However, you should be able to boot with the external keyboard and mouse.

You mentioned that you wanted to install Lion. We do not recommend Lion but instead as Rod pointed out, Snow Leopard (retail DVD) is best to use.

Keep in mind that the 2008 White MacBook is going to have some deterioration of cables and parts. The SATA cable (cable that attaches the hard drive to the logic board) is probably worn and will have to be changed out. Also, the hard drive if it is the original, should be tested.

We suggest going to this site: www.ifixit.com and look up the model and go through the repair procedures.

I might add that I owned that exact MacBook many years ago and it was a good machine for the years I used it.

Let us know if you need more help with it and thanks for joining our forums.

Ok, I definitely see that it works with external mouse and keyboard attached via USB. The trackpad and internal keyboard are intermittent - at this moment are dead - but the system goes just fine with the external ones.

Can I boot in Recovery mode to wipe out the disk using an external keyboard instead of the internal one? If not, how to do it from inside the MacBook with the external peripherals? I can make a bootable USB for Snow Leopard to wipe out and clean install this.

Also, do you recommend me to get a new battery after checking up what's with the cables? I'd very much like to keep saving the little thing, what with it being my first "modern-ish" Mac and everything.

 

[chscag]

Ok, I definitely see that it works with external mouse and keyboard attached via USB. The trackpad and internal keyboard are intermittent - at this moment are dead - but the system goes just fine with the external ones.

That indicates a problem with either the keyboard - trackpad or the ribbon cable. Probably would need to replace the cable first to see if that fixes it. Also, if the battery that was previously in the machine had any swelling (bulging) that could have damaged the keyboard - trackpad.

Can I boot in Recovery mode to wipe out the disk using an external keyboard instead of the internal one? If not, how to do it from inside the MacBook with the external peripherals? I can make a bootable USB for Snow Leopard to wipe out and clean install this.

There is no Recovery mode on that model. Recovery mode did not come to fruition until macOS 10.7 (Lion). Your machine has Leopard, macOS 10.5.

You will need a retail DVD version of either Leopard (10.5) or Snow Leopard (macOS 10.6) to boot with and accomplish the wipe, format, and reinstall. Note you will need a "retail" version as there are versions of the operating system that are hardware specific. You can not use that type of DVD. Check eBay for a retail version of Snow Leopard. A retail version of Leopard is going to be expensive.

Also, do you recommend me to get a new battery after checking up what's with the cables? I'd very much like to keep saving the little thing, what with it being my first "modern-ish" Mac and everything.

I would wait until you are sure everything else is working okay and you have the new operating system installed. Batteries are expensive although there are knock off batteries available on eBay that are moderately priced.

That particular model MacBook can be updated to 6 GB of memory although I personally recommend using 4 GB. (2 GB in each slot). Replacing the hard drive is very easy to do and again the SATA cable should also be replaced at the same time.

You can compare prices for memory, parts, at many various sites that sell them. Let us know if you need info regarding that.

 

[pm-r]

Also, do you recommend me to get a new battery after checking up what's with the cables? I'd very much like to keep saving the little thing, what with it being my first "modern-ish" Mac and everything.

Definitely get it a decent replacement battery. I believe that MacBook model will also run faster with a battery installed even when running off external power.

I just got a replacement battery for my old 2007 MBPro my old age cousin is now using and it still working well, but plugged in most of the time, and I only paid a fraction of the price for the batteries that Apple used to charge. I avoided the super cheap, and paid how about $50.00 Canadian, but from a Canadian Amazon supplier out of Quebec who doesn't charge provincial taxes and also provided free shipping, maybe even to the US.


- Patrick
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[DarthStaalwart]

Allright, @chscag and everybody else, you fairly well demonstrated why I decided to enroll myself in this particular forum page. You have been SO helpful so far!

Ok, to sum it up:

* Try to check the entire keyboard/trackpad assembly, to check if any possible battery bulging could've compromised the parts (I don't see any evident warping or crack beneath, in the battery placeholder, but I do know Macs can be brittle), fix what I can, replace what I cannot.
* Getting a retail Snow Leopard DVD. NOTE: I read that Apple does NOT officially support this particular model, MacBook 4.1 A1181, early 2008; will it work anyways? And the USB boot, then, is a no-go? If I get the bootable USB instead of the DVD, I mean.
* Updating to the respective OS version, after performing the factory reset of course.
* When everything looks okay, getting a battery replacement and perhaps a 4GB memory upgrade kit. In the future, I'd consider using an SSD disk as well, I think I have several laying around ranging between 128GB and 500GB.

I'll keep you all posted of this interesting adventure. And thanks again!

 

[chscag]

* Getting a retail Snow Leopard DVD. NOTE: I read that Apple does NOT officially support this particular model, MacBook 4.1 A1181, early 2008; will it work anyways? And the USB boot, then, is a no-go? If I get the bootable USB instead of the DVD, I mean.

Apple does not officially support obsolete or vintage products. So no, Apple will be of no help with regard to tech support or parts.

Using a Snow Leopard retail DVD is a better choice since you can do everything with it: Install, format, disk utility (Mac equivalent of chkdsk). You may be able to find a bootable USB version of Snow Leopard but it's not as good as the DVD. However, Lion is only available as an official download from Apple or on USB. Again, we do not recommend Lion for several reasons:

1. No support for older PPC apps.

2. No Rosetta. (Rosetta is used to interpret older PPC apps to the newer Intel versions.)

Something just came to mind..... You need to make sure the optical drive is working okay on that MacBook. Mac optical drives are extremely fragile unlike PC drives. Mac drives are slot loading whereas PC drives are tray loading. If that optical drive is not working right, you will be unable to use an external optical drive as the firmware "sees" the internal drive and will not allow an install from an external drive.

If that situation exists, you will only be able to install via USB.

Hope all that helps and does not confuse you.

 

[DarthStaalwart]

Something just came to mind..... You need to make sure the optical drive is working okay on that MacBook. Mac optical drives are extremely fragile unlike PC drives. Mac drives are slot loading whereas PC drives are tray loading. If that optical drive is not working right, you will be unable to use an external optical drive as the firmware "sees" the internal drive and will not allow an install from an external drive.

If that situation exists, you will only be able to install via USB.

Oh, no, no, I verified the SuperDisc functionality, even burned a CD-R just to test it. The optical unit is a go, thank God.

 

[chscag]

Oh, no, no, I verified the SuperDisc functionality, even burned a CD-R just to test it. The optical unit is a go, thank God.

That's good news. Let us know when you get the Snow Leopard DVD and the progress. Here is what the retail version looks like:

 

[pm-r]

Getting a retail Snow Leopard DVD. NOTE: I read that Apple does NOT officially support this particular model, MacBook 4.1 A1181, early 2008; will it work anyways?

I have no idea where you read that information, but here is what works on that Mac:

Pre-Installed MacOS: X 10.5.2 (9C2015) Maximum MacOS: X 10.7.5*

MacBook "Core 2 Duo" 2.4 13" (White-08) Specs (Early 2008, MB403LL/A, MacBook4,1, A1181, 2242): EveryMac.com

Technical specifications for the MacBook "Core 2 Duo" 2.4 13" (White-08). Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.

everymac.com

Snow Leopard was a really great operating system, actually one of the best Mac OS X versions.


- Patrick
=======

 

[chscag]

Patrick:

We already explained to him that means the MacBook is obsolete (vintage) and is no longer supported by Apple. And we already stated that the retail version of Snow Leopard is what he needs.

Didn't you read through all of the above thread? Or are our posts late getting to B.C.?

 

[DarthStaalwart]

Now, now, guys, the mistake was actually mine. When I said "Getting a retail Snow Leopard DVD. NOTE: I read that Apple does NOT officially support this particular model", I actually meant to say a Mountain Lion DVD, and I indeed read that Apple didn't officially supported it for my old model. My bad. As a matter of fact I found an also old Snow Leopard DVD, but unfortunately was so scratched the SuperDisk tried to read it, and ejected it. So, plan B: I used an USB installer instead. And worked as a charm! I at least am now on 10.6.8 (the USB upgraded my ancient 10.5 Leopard to 10.6, and afterwards the Software Updater did the 10.6.8 Combo update), and things are far more stable now.

And speaking of stability, there's another thing. The internal keyboard and touchpad began working again... and so far have been working with no more disconnections whatsoever. I used them for some half hour navigating, browsing, typing, you name it, and the things now perform as new. No glitches. So it might have been a software issue after all, perhaps a corrupted kext file or something. I'll keep monitoring.

Now, next step: should I continue upgrading to Lion? I don't think Mountain Lion will be an option, not unless I tweak the installer. Or shall I remain in Snow Leopard, which from what I've read is the Windows 7 of Macs (an old OS, but one so cherished and stable a lot of Windows users still run it instead of 8 and even 10)?

 

[chscag]

Stick with Snow Leopard for the reasons I outlined above.

As for Lion, we consider it the "Vista" for the Mac as much as we consider Snow Leopard the Windows 7 for the Mac.

 

[pm-r]

Now, next step: should I continue upgrading to Lion? I don't think Mountain Lion will be an option, not unless I tweak the installer. Or shall I remain in Snow Leopard, ...

Personally, I would stick with Snow Leopard unless there is some particular reason you need a later OS, but Lion 10.7.x is the maximum you can go, that is actually supported:

Apple MacBook Specs (All MacBook Technical Specs): EveryMac.com

Technical specifications for the Apple MacBook series. Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, estimated retail prices, and more.

everymac.com

I cannot remember if Rosetta needs to be installed on its own after a Mac OS re-install or not, but might need to get installed if and when needed.

Nice to hear that you got the 'ol machine working!!! ? ?

- Patrick
=======

 

[DarthStaalwart]

Stick with Snow Leopard for the reasons I outlined above.

As for Lion, we consider it the "Vista" for the Mac as much as we consider Snow Leopard the Windows 7 for the Mac.

Noted. Maybe I'll do some more research with other HDDs I have, to see what happens. But so far I think this oldie is a keeper. If keeps behaving I'll get her a new battery pack, more RAM and a bigger SSD disk.

Thanks, man!

 

[DarthStaalwart]

Personally, I would stick with Snow Leopard unless there is some particular reason you need a later OS, but Lion 10.7.x is the maximum you can go, that is actually supported.

Duly noted, sticking to 10.6.8 for now; before experimenting more I'll make a Time Machine backup just in case. (Y)

 

[pm-r]

Duly noted, sticking to 10.6.8 for now; before experimenting more I'll make a Time Machine backup just in case.

You might want to consider using Carbon Copy Cloner to create a bootable clone that can make a reinstall if needed, much easier and quicker.


- Patrick
=======

 

[DarthStaalwart]

Good day everyone, it's been a while!

The little one is still going strong - with some additions:

- Upgraded RAM to 4GB
- Installed a new battery
- ... not exactly an improvement, but I got her an Apple Remote Control - just because. Got it for a couple bucks anyway, so I figured, what the heck.

It hasn't failed again on anything, including keyboard and mouse. My next step will be to upgrade her HDD (maybe a suitable SSD). But I have to tell you, I have a, HP i3 third generation with 8GB RAM, and this MacBook easily outperforms it. I mean, the MacBook dances in circles around it.

So happy with this vintage piece of engineering.