Just not getting it...

[[email protected]]

dtravis7: I don't have an advanced option yet. The mail client is jumping into a wizard so that it can configure my settings. It wants to connect to the POP3 mail server and download all my mail BEFORE I can do anything about it... like clicking on an advanced option. Outlook express lets you set this BEFORE you download your mail. There isn't much point in telling the mail client not to delete your mail after already done it.

I am still SO bummed about the page down key. I use the page down (and end) keys constantly. Now, to perform one of the most basic functions I have to press TWO keys.

Also... just noticed this. You can do copy and paste with the apple-c and apple-v keys... but given the proximity of the C and V keys to the apple key you have to contort your hand into a funny shape to do it. On a PC keyboard, you'd use the second finger from your pinkie to press the control key and at the same time use your index finger to press the C or V key. But, it's a lot harder to do on an apple keyboard because the keys are a lot closer together. Can someone explain to me how this is better? This is another very common function, and now it's a lot harder than before.

cvx5832: Thanks... I'll have a look. But why do people keep telling me to install extra software to get around these issues? Honestly, can someone explain to me why this makes the OS X interface better, when none of this is required on Windows?

 

[dtravis7]

dtravis7: I don't have an advanced option yet. The mail client is jumping into a wizard so that it can configure my settings. It wants to connect to the POP3 mail server and download all my mail BEFORE I can do anything about it... like clicking on an advanced option. Outlook express lets you set this BEFORE you download your mail. There isn't much point in telling the mail client not to delete your mail after already done it.

Simple, don't give any passwords till it's all set up and go uncheck the option, then click get mail and give it the password and say save to the keychain. I have never lost one message from my server. I never put in the password in an Email client till I am sure all settings are the way I want so nothing bad will happen.

 

[MrJoshua]

RTFM?

To be fair, I haven't either, and this thread has answered a couple of questions I had too, but if these issues had been annoying me that much, I'd have asked on the forum, but in a way that doesn't smack of "I want my pony". Sorry.

I've been a Microsoft OS power-user / support-guy for 11 years and yes, it's taking me a while to get my head round OS X, but I'm really enjoying the experience.

My only real gripe (that I've mentioned before) is that a lot of apps require a right-click to do some functions, but the Macbook doesn't have a right button, so I have to CTRL+Click, which is rubbish imho. However, apart from this, I'm getting on with the experience.

I know everyone's personalities are different, and it's sometimes hard to express this in text form, but it might be worthwhile trying to ask questions on the boards so that you can learn from other more experienced users rather than posting what seems like a rant.

Not having a dig mate, just saying how it appears.

Good luck with getting to grips with the OS/Device. I'm sure after opening your mind and spending some "Quality Time" with them, you'll start to get to love some of the great features of the system.

(Oh, btw, Expose (ok, how do I get the e to display correctly? I'm used to the Windows key combo!) is free and is part of the OS... Just hit F9, it's great!).

Best Regards!

 

[[email protected]]

Uhm... I just installed USB overdrive. First of all, after it was installed, it immediately rebooted the system without ANY warning. Hello?!?!

Now, when my system comes up, it pops a dialog box up, thanking me for using the software. It says to get rid of the dialog box I need to register. To register, you have to pay.

So, let me make sure I understand this. To stop my wrists from getting RSI due to the non fluid mouse movements, I have to install additional software not normally required by windows, and then pay money to get rid of the dialog box on boot. I'm confused. How is this not worse than Windows, just different?

My major gripe right now is the mouse movement. Is it just me? Is it just my system? I can't explain exactly what it is except that the mouse movement over the desktop doesn't seem to be very fluid, and I find it difficult clicking on controls. Maybe the resolution of the mouse isn't high enough? It seems like it has a low granularity.... if that makes sense. Its all starting to hurt my wrist from all the extra effort.

The other stuff I guess I can deal with.... although not having functional PAGE DOWN and copy and paste keys sucks no matter how you slice and dice it.

 

[cazabam]

Go to System Preferences -> Keyboard & Mouse and select the 'Mouse' tab when you've got the mouse plugged in. I found that the default sensitivity was waaay to high and had to immediately lower it to about half the default or the mouse was just flicking wildly all over the screen.

 

[[email protected]]

No, that didn't help. For reasons I don't yet understand, I just find the mouse movements vey jerky... and my wrist is starting to bloody hurt.

 

[MrJoshua]

I can't speak about the Macbook Pro, but on my Macbook, the touchpad tracking is very smooth and accurate. I have no issue with it at all.

Maybe this is something you can alter... Apple Logo (Top Left), System Preferences, Keyboard & Mouse, Trackpad.

Have a play with some of the settings in there to see if you can make the cursor respond how you like it.

 

[D3v1L80Y]

I started to configure the standard mail client and realised there was no option to 'leave mail on the server'. Every mail client since the beginning of time has had an option not to delete mail from the server after it has downloaded it.

And so does Mail.
Just make sure the "Remove copy from server" box is unchecked. This is done after you have set up your account. As dtravis7 mentioned, just don't save a password until you have set that option if you would like to keep your mail on the server.

As many here have already stated, OS X is not Windows. Things are done differently and it is up to a person to decide whether or not those differences are worth it to their needs. With regards to the cut and paste options, there is no need to 'contort' one's hand. Simply use your middle finger on the Command key and use your index to choose C or V. Alternatively, there are two Command keys, so if using your right hand to press the other key works better, then try it. Addressing the page down question, pressing two keys really isn't that big of a deal in my opinion. After all, you are using two keys to copy and paste... what is wrong with using two to page down?

Simply put, no one OS is "better" than another. That is merely a matter of opinion. What makes one OS better is which one suits your needs better. It would appear that OS X is not conducive to your needs.
What is it that you are using your computer for?
Was your previous computer doing these things for you well enough?
What prompted you to go with a Mac?
Asking yourself these questions first, could have made the transition a little easier to cope with. Trying one out at a store or friend's would have also offered insight.

 

[MrJoshua]

Hey, I just answered my own grip... "Tap trackpad using two fingers to secondary click"!!! SWEET!!!

 

[[email protected]]

That didn't help. Same basic problem with both the Mighty Mouse and a Logitech USB mouse. The Logitech USB mouse works fine on Windows XP. It's almost like the mouse movements are jerky. When I try and click on a control, the mouse won't QUITE get there... it wants to go anywhere BUT in the centre of the control. I tried changing the tracking speed. Didn't help. It's almost like windows will snap-to-grids the mouse on the control.... ie when you get closer to a control it just WORKS... dunno why though.

 

[eric]

My only real gripe (that I've mentioned before) is that a lot of apps require a right-click to do some functions, but the Macbook doesn't have a right button, so I have to CTRL+Click, which is rubbish imho. However, apart from this, I'm getting on with the experience.

just go to trackpad properties and select the two-finger tap for context/right click - not sure exactly what it's called (don't have my macbook with me), but it's easy to find.

 

[[email protected]]

Eric, I'm not using the trackpad. I'm using an external mouse. I have never been able to get used to using a trackpad, even on Windows. Trying to pinpoint a mouse pointer with the track pad is worse than pulling teeth!

 

[eric]

Eric, I'm not using the trackpad...

sorry, i was answering to the other user's issue (as you'll see in the quote in my last post).

if you ever do have to use it though, it is a nice piece! good functionallity too, far superior to windows (natively) imho.

 

[[email protected]]

My bad Eric.

Here's something else that I am finding moderately off-putting (not as much as the mous tho).

Given that the default colors are all white, and the window themes are brushed metal etc, there isn't much contrast between window menus and window contents. My eyes get confused when I look at Safari for example. It takes me a few seconds to break up which is which. Is that just me? I guess there's no way to change the OS colours.

 

[xstep]

I got a new Macbook Pro today.

1. Page down - Works fine in Safari and Firefox. Is there particular app giving you an issue.

2. alt-tab - I use F9 and click on the window I want.

3. The terminal ... Lucida Console font - Doesn't look like it is part of the supplied system fonts.

5. application/x-mplayer2 - A Microsoft proprietary format as I understand things. Apples movie trailer page is excellent.

6. annoying to have such a small amount of y-axis real-estate - Give it a little time. I'm getting used to this since I bought a MBP too.

8. The window close, minimise and maximise buttons are SOOO small - I've never had a problem with them.

9. apps ... hard to know which ones are in focus - You'll get used to it. The only time this seems to be an issue for me is when I have the same (or copy) document open in two different apps.

10. install ... this stuff should not be that hard - Its not hard. But I've never installed that app, so I can't answer to their instructions. When they say drag to the Applications folder, they do mean the one on the hard drive. Then usually you can just double click the app icon and you are up and running. I personally put most third party apps into a subfolder (directory) I've called 3rdParty. I also have app theme folders within that too.

11. applications seem to completely disregard screen real-estate - That is application dependent. And don't ask how to maximize a window to full screen. OS X is not designed in that primitive way. It leaves the decision to the app.

12 Mail app server deletion - I set up a machine recently and it did not remove the mail from the server before I was finished setting up Mail. It may try to connect to confirm the password. I then went into the Advanced tab for the account and told it not to remove mail. You want to do this immediately in case auto check for mail is on.

Somewhat ignore Baggss comment saying to forget Windows. DO keep your mind open that Microsoft did not copy the Mac interface exactly and that you'll have to learn some new ways. From the way you asked most of your questions, I'd say you are keeping an open mind, but have newbie frustrations. Try not letting the frustrations into your queries.

 

[boneheadz]

Eric, I'm not using the trackpad. I'm using an external mouse. I have never been able to get used to using a trackpad, even on Windows. Trying to pinpoint a mouse pointer with the track pad is worse than pulling teeth!

When I installed a logitech mouse I got a second option in the preferences. I have a "logitech control center". I found I had to tweak my settings to get it to work smoothly.

Also, there seems to be some disagreement on the page down issue, some saying it works by its self some say a second key is needed. Do you have an external keyboard? The page down button works fine on the external.

I didn't noticed if anyone answered your VPN question, I would think that there would be a way.

It does sounds like you are keeping an open mind. Once you start using Expose (a stock app) you will start looking for it in windows.

daryl

 

[fleurya]

But don't get too comfortable with WinXP; Vista is coming soon and by all accounts, it's a kludged clone of -- yup you guessed it -- Mac OS X.

And when I say clone I mean clone.

OMG, that video is so pathetic; not only because the guy doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, but also because the New York Times would allow such a childish, product-bashing rant to be published under their once-good name. I've lost all respect for NYT unless they fire that guy and the editor who allowed it to be published.

He claims Windows didn't have dropdown menus before, Oh really? Has he used Windows in the past 20 years?? So Vista uses arrows instead of +/- for drop down menus, I didn't realize Apple invented arrows!

Then he goes on to complain about applications and features Apple didn't make either.

Spotlight for example - Google and many others have been making desktop search software for some time.

Widgets - also once made/called konfabulater (sp?) before either integrated it.

Photo sorting - Sorry to step on Apple's toes as the inventors of sorting. Funny he didn't mention the great feature in Windows of seeing beautiful thumbnails and open file folders with thumbnails in windows explorer that I have yet to see anything like in OSx. It's nice to be able to look through your photo collection without opening an entire application just to do it.

and ches game - are you serious?!?! So Apple not only invented chess, they invented 3D gaming, which would be necessary to claim Windows "stole" it. I don't know about this guy, but I've been playing 3D games, chess, and 3D chess for a long, long time now. Guess he should rant on every 3D game maker in the world.

then in the end he makes some stupid hand gesture implying the V in Vista is ripping off the X in OSx. What was that all about????

If this is all this so-called professional has to complain about, he needs to do a little more research than simply flipping through Vista for 5 minutes and complaining about what he sees without actually doing any research. I've heard better arguments from people on this froum, though they're still not convincing. Maybe people here should apply for jobs at NYT making these crappy reviews; if you can call that a review.

Most of all his smug attitude was the most unprofessional display I've ever seen. I'm actually so annoyed I'm going to write to NYT in hopes they'll retract this sad display for their own reputation-sake.

Don't get me wrong, this is not a rant against Apple, it's a rant against stupid people, including anyone who believes in that load of crap.

 

[Aptmunich]

I disagree:

His point wasn't that apple "invented" any of that stuff... I think it was the fact that Microsoft have not just made a similar implementation, they've done an almost identical implementation of most features.

They could have made Vista something unique and special.. but they chose no to - says a lot about the company IMO.

 

[fleurya]

No, I think it was pretty clear in his "editorial" that Vista is stealing Apple ideas, when they weren't Apple's to begin with.

People are really looking at this in the wrong way. Let me put it this way. Spotlight and Widgets are just features of the OS; options. They are not the OS itself. What both MS and Apple do is determine what feature the general population wants most and impliment them. People like Widgets, they put in Widgets. People want a fast ,easy search, they put in a fast, easy search. Apple just did it first, so, at most, they get credit for doing it first.

They could have made Vista something unique and special.. but they chose no to - says a lot about the company IMO.

Yesz, they could have gone other directions by not putting in certain features and using others, but if they don't put in what people really want, their not going to sell their product. How is that wrong?

Let's look at another product that is largly similar; cars. Ever notice how car designs follow a certain design trend? It's because they all do the same market research and find out what people want their cars to look like. They don't peek at what the others are doing and copy it. they don't have time because it take 3-5 years to develope a design and bring it to market. See, the thing about market research of the general population is, the general population's opinion doesn't change because a different company is doing the research. Each maker gets similar results from their research. See what I'm saying?

Also, all include certain features like CD players and nav systems. These were products before being integrated into cars, but if Toyota puts in a CD player first, should Nissan have to leave out CD players and put in laser disc just because toyota did it first? I don't think so. And you don't see forums full of Toyota owners complaining that Nissan put a CD player into its cars either.

Should MS users complain about Apple using firewire 800? I don't think Apple users would find that reasonable. Or, even better, should MS users complain about Apple making a program called Keynote that's "just like Powerpoint"? No.

If you think about it that way, you can see that Ms isn't simply ripping off Apple. If there were 10-20 OS makers like there are car makers ( and I'm talking mass-consumer-based OS not UNIX and other more oscure OS's not marketed for the gneeral public), I bet they most to all would include easy computer search, widgets, and other very similar features people want, because they want it.

 

[ToddG]

Ok. I see your point. So the page down key is actually the arrow down key. Would it have been so hard to color code the function and 'page' word with the same color to indicate an association that required both be pressed together? That's a pretty standard pc/notebook feature. C'mon. Be realistic. How is someone supposed to know 'function' has to be pressed at the same time without some sort of visual connection between them?

And I see yours, but I think you are still trying to shoehorn your Mac into your WinXP experience. No, the keys are not rainbow colored. Personally -- and it's just preference -- I like it much better this way. The Mac is much more elegant looking (not to mention lighter and much slimmer) than a comparable Dell/Tosh/HP notebook.

So yes, it will take you a day or three to learn the tricks. Once you've learned them (like learning Alt+F4 closes windows in WinXP) it will work much more pleasantly.

I'll try Expose. Why do I need to install extra apps though to bring OS X to the same level of functionality as Windows?

(1) Exposé is part of OS X. You don't have to install anything. Expose is clearly discussed in the manual as I recall. Did you, ya know, RTFM?

(2) Exposé gives functionality that is not present in Windows. F9: see all your windows at once; F10: see all the windows for the open application at once; F11: see your desktop (clear all windows to the edges); F12: open Dashboard.

Some manufacturers, like Dell and Sony, make 15" screens with SXGA+ resolution. This is 1440x1050, and it works wonderfully.

Can't argue with that. I haven't experienced any "lack of space" issues but again that's purely a matter of preference.

The minimise, maximise and close window buttons may be the same size, buf you look closely, you will see that because they are round, rather than square, they are smaller and harder to click on. I still think they are smaller on OS X than windows anyway.

This may really be a problem for you, but it's coming across as nit picking. OK, they have less clickable area than a comparable WinXP box. I haven't had a problem, and I haven't seen people (switchers or non-switchers) complain about it. I'm not saying it's not a problem for you. But if it is, you're probably screwed because you're the only person vocalizing dissatisfaction about it.

The screen real-estate is an issue with OS X. It's not just yahoo that takes up a lot of screen space. The OS X apps themselves to do, and when you only have 900 vertical pixels, you need all the space you can get. How can I make my desktop icons smaller? Is there a way to do that?

Like I said, I've never had a problem with the screen resolution. I'm quite happy with it, in fact. But to make your desktop (or any folder's) icons smaller:

* "right" click (CTRL+click or two-finger tap your trackpad) the desktop or empty space in any folder.

* choose "Show View Options"

* make changes as you wish

Note: when doing this in a regular folder (as opposed to the desktop) you get the option to do it globablly or on a folder-by-folder basis. Be sure you choose the action you really want.

As I said, the install is not simple. It was NOT clear to me if I was supposed to drag the icon within the yahoo app or drag the icon with the file system. All it said was to the drag the file. It didn't say how to do it, yet gave you multiple ways to do it. I didn't know which way was the correct one.

Again, all I can say is that the ease of installation/uninstallation is a major selling point of OS X. The fact that you found it confusing suggests to me that you and the Mac just might never be friends. You're complaining that you didn't understand it, we've told you a half dozen times how to do it and you're still complaining. It doesn't seem to matter to you that, now that you know, it really is easier.

I also did not realise that OS X does not automatically reorder icons inside a folder. The yahoo icon was there, but because it was way off to the right for some reason, I didn't notice it was there.

Just as with WinXP, this is an option you can set globally or folder-by-folder. You do it the same way you change icon and text size, explained above.

I don't agree that my complaints revolve around me saying that OS X isn't identical to Win XP. I was under the impression that OS X would just work out of the box, but when you add up stuff like firefox crashing, the vpn client not being able to skip the remote default gateway, the mail client not giving the option to leave mail on the server (Windows Outlook expres does), links inside safari not opening up yahoo chat, it's disappointing.

Firefox isn't a Mac OS X app. I know zippy about VPN.

To leave messages on server with Mail:

* Click Mail on the menu bar at top.

* Choose Preferences

* Choose Accounts

* Choose Advanced

* Un-click the third box or change the settings to meet your personal needs. My accounts are set up to delete from the server after one day, because this works best to keep my Blackberry happy.

I also don't know about Yahoo Chat, but perhaps the program everyone else is recommending (Adium?) would solve that.

Performing the equivalent operations on windows did not require the assistance of a forum to get it working, so why should it require such assistance for OS X?

If you installed, configured, maintained, and operated WinXP (and Unix I think you said?) systems without ever reading a manual, reading a help file, or getting instruction/help from anyone anywhere but you find the Mac OS bewildering, all I can say is that you are incredibly intuitive when it comes to complex computer systems and suffering a mental block when it comes to OS X.

The Mac doesn't have to be for everyone. If you're that unhappy, the Apple Store has a 15 day return policy I think and if not, you can probably recoup the majority of your cost by selling the thing on eBay. It doesn't make you a bad person. (well ok yes it does, but I'm trying to be nice)