Is communism simply an ideology or does it actually exist?

[Slydude]

Yes. That's true to some extent but in those societies everyone had "skin in the game" so to speak. Without that there is little incentive to innovate other than one's own intrinsic motivation. This isn't a new notion. See summary here

I realize that technically what Governor Bradford described in the 1600's was closer to socialism than communism but the result is often the same. Ownership, and the potential benefit arising from it, is a huge motivating factor for many people.

 

[RavingMac]

Not to defend colonialism, but indigenous people had a pretty good track record of taking land and other stuff from each other before Europeans showed up to mess up the party.

FWIW my ancestry includes a healthy percentage of indigenous American

 

[harryb2448]

And Ashwin to say nothing of taking each others heads and wives!

 

[MBP17•David]

It is true, that ultimate pre-requisite for a truly enlightened and equal society, that Marx called communism, but we don't have to, is highly evolved human nature, particularly in a large group of people, and not just in a small community (of which there are plenty of examples, as was said already). However, this evolution of human nature is simply not possible, for as long as there is no abundant source of [free and sustainable] energy to alleviate poverty. And then, it would take hundreds, if not thousands of years for us to evolve enough ... hopefully freeing ourselves from some delusions, that fuel war and hatred, in this process of growing up too.

 

[louishen]

In a small group it may work because you know everyone else and theoretically want them to do well. At the very least they can do some things you cannot do so you help each other in enlightened self-interest. That starts to break down in large groups where you don't know everyone personally or have more than one source to get what you need.

Indeed, it can work on a smaller scale. The nearest thing I can think of is the Israeli Kibbutz.

Its easy to forget now, but at its inception, the state of Israel was conceived as a socialist state, and with smaller communities governing themselves, I assume peer pressure in a small scale community would be enough to make sure any slackers do not get away with contributing less.

Of course, this wasn't quite communism, but at least an example of how a socialist system can and does work, at least at a level below the full-on nation state

 

[vansmith]

Not to defend colonialism, but indigenous people had a pretty good track record of taking land and other stuff from each other before Europeans showed up to mess up the party.

True but the major difference was the concept of ownership which didn't exist for many indigenous groups in the Americas. Land was not a commodity you could deal in.

Yes. That's true to some extent but in those societies everyone had "skin in the game" so to speak.

Ah, but there's nothing to say that we each couldn't have "skin in the game" now. Capitalism and its operation now are nothing more than social constructs to which we have all subscribed (granted, we don't really have a choice). There's nothing to suggest that we can't do otherwise (I realize that it's very very unlikely but that doesn't preclude the possibility).

Thanks for the article. I'll take a look!

Its easy to forget now, but at its inception, the state of Israel was conceived as a socialist state, and with smaller communities governing themselves, I assume peer pressure in a small scale community would be enough to make sure any slackers do not get away with contributing less.

I think this notion of pressure is key. If everyone has to contribute, I don't think the community would be very supportive of those who don't pull their weight.

 

[chas_m]

Heck, a well-run volunteer organization (or homeowner's association for that matter) is a working example of "communism" -- everyone contributes equally (dues), and an elected/accountable governing body approve rules and where best to spend the money for the benefit of all residents.

 

[vansmith]

Heck, a well-run volunteer organization (or homeowner's association for that matter) is a working example of "communism" -- everyone contributes equally (dues),

You had it until here. There's no governing body, at least not a permanent one, in a truly communist system.

You have a valid point though about the "micro-communist" systems that exist everywhere (albeit absent of any real breadth). Most of those micro systems however become non-communist once someone commands power over the collective which happens in most cases.

 

[simonvee]

A true communist society, the closest that it comes to exist in reality is for example, a tribe of 4 people trapped on an island. They build shelter together and hunt for food together. Each person has varying degrees of efficiency, yet they receive the same amount of food and shelter. This scenario with 40 or more people on a deserted island is improbable. Also, with a number like 40 there is more likely to be a governing body.

 

[RavingMac]

A true communist society, the closest that it comes to exist in reality is for example, a tribe of 4 people trapped on an island. They build shelter together and hunt for food together. Each person has varying degrees of efficiency, yet they receive the same amount of food and shelter. This scenario with 40 or more people on a deserted island is improbable. Also, with a number like 40 there is more likely to be a governing body.

I believe most of us (if not all) would agree the idealized communist system is a great idea. Unfortunately, in any sizeable group there will always be bullies and leeches to screw things up.