Cloning my older iMac to an external drive

[Nancy Withrow]

I have an early 2008 iMac running on El Capitan 10.11.6. I bought a new Mac running Catalina 10.15.7. I realize my older 32 bit apps (like Quark, Filemaker Pro, Adobe Photoshops Elements, etc.) will not run on my new 64 bit Mac. Question: If I clone my old Mac onto an external hard drive and plug that hard drive into my new Mac, can I chose to boot up from the external drive and run my 32 bit apps? Would I have to reformat the external drive (which is new) before I clone to it? Would cloning automatically make the external drive bootable and run my El Capitan and apps?

 

[chscag]

That won't work since cloning will result in a bootable Catalina which will not run 32 bit apps. And cloning El Capitan from your old Mac and plugging that into your new Mac likewise will not work. You can't boot your new Mac and run apps from an external drive with other than Catalina.

If you really need to run those old 32 bit apps, keep your 2008 iMac around to run them.

Or, bit the bullet and upgrade all your old 32 bit apps to newer versions that are 64 bit. $$$$

 

[Nancy Withrow]

Thank you, chscag, for your reply!!

That won't work since cloning will result in a bootable Catalina which will not run 32 bit apps. And cloning El Capitan from your old Mac and plugging that into your new Mac likewise will not work. You can't boot your new Mac and run apps from an external drive with other than Catalina.

If you really need to run those old 32 bit apps, keep your 2008 iMac around to run them.

Or, bit the bullet and upgrade all your old 32 bit apps to newer versions that are 64 bit. $$$$

Sorry, I don't think I made my myself clear or maybe I'm not understanding something correctly. Let me start over - My old Mac has El Capitan on it and I want to plug an empty external drive (with no OS) into my old Mac run by El Capitan. Then I want to clone my old Mac (make an exact copy of it) and put that clone onto an the attached new external drive. I think (but maybe I'm wrong??) that the external drive would then have everything on it that my old Mac has including El Capitan & my 32 bit apps. THEN, I was wanting to unplug that external drive from my old Mac and plug it into my new Mac. When I start up my new Mac (which has Catalina OS) - I am hoping that if I hold down the "option" key while starting up the new Mac - I will be given the choice of whether to boot up from either the new Mac (Catalina) or the newly attached external drive that has my cloned El Capitan + old 32 bit apps on it. So, I am questioning 2 things: (1) would El Capitan on my "cloned" external drive be "bootable" to begin with? and (2) if I COULD boot from the external drive, would my 32 bit apps work from that external drive? I thought I've read that sometimes people partitioned their hard drive and put a different OS on each partition when they wanted to try out and test a new OS. I'm just not sure of how to"clone" my old computer and get that cloned copy on my external drive (while it is still attached to my old Mac) and don't even want to try until I know more of what I'm doing. I DO know that I can't install a different OS on the external drive while it is attached to my new Mac.

 

[MarkAllread]

If you properly cloned the El Cap drive from the iMac, you would end up with an external bootable El Cap drive that would start up and run fine on your original iMac, but NOT your new Mac as the new one would not be able to run El Cap as it is too old (if it is really a NEW Mac).
If you want to transfer data files and any useable apps (if you have any), you could explore migration assistant. But it will not help with your old, 32 bit apps.
edit...ha! we were writing at the same time!

 

[chscag]

So, I am questioning 2 things: (1) would El Capitan on my "cloned" external drive be "bootable" to begin with?

The answer to that question is yes if you clone it correctly.

(2) if I COULD boot from the external drive, would my 32 bit apps work from that external drive?

They would work only if that external drive were attached to your old Mac not the new one. Your new Mac as I stated in my first reply can not run El Capitan.

I thought I've read that sometimes people partitioned their hard drive and put a different OS on each partition when they wanted to try out and test a new OS.

That's true but only if that Mac can run those versions of macOS. An older Mac can run its original version of macOS and new versions with limits. Partitioning allows that. But not for your new Mac. It can only run Catalina and Big Sur.

I understood from your first post what you wanted to do, and my answer then and now is the same. Keep your old Mac to run 32 bit apps or update your apps to newer versions that will run with Catalina.

 

[MarkAllread]

I think nancy might have been a bit confused by this.. "That won't work since cloning will result in a bootable Catalina.." which is probably the result of trying to answer 10 different questions all at the same time.

I'm a follower of your first advice, and keep several generations of old Macs at my disposal!

 

[Rod]

The bottom line here is a misconception I had myself. A fully functional bootable clone of an early macOS like El Capitan will not boot a newer Mac which came with a later version of macOS installed.

 

[pm-r]

have an early 2008 iMac running on El Capitan 10.11.6. I bought a new Mac running Catalina 10.15.7.

It might make things easier for you to comprehend how your thought may or may not work if you check out the capabilities of each Mac model you are referring to by going here:

Mac Specs, Prices, Answers and Comparison: EveryMac.com, Est. 1996

A complete guide of every Mac, iPod, iPhone, iPad and Mac clone with technical and pricing info. Specs on every Mac, answer Mac questions, compare Macs and more.

everymac.com

Select the Mac model you are interested in and check out the specs, specifically the
No code has to be inserted here.
That will tell you the minimum and maximum Mac OS version that each model can run, which will indicate whether your idea would work or not.

That should help.


- Patrick
=======

 

[Nancy Withrow]

The answer to that question is yes if you clone it correctly.



They would work only if that external drive were attached to your old Mac not the new one. Your new Mac as I stated in my first reply can not run El Capitan.



That's true but only if that Mac can run those versions of macOS. An older Mac can run its original version of macOS and new versions with limits. Partitioning allows that. But not for your new Mac. It can only run Catalina and Big Sur.

I understood from your first post what you wanted to do, and my answer then and now is the same. Keep your old Mac to run 32 bit apps or update your apps to newer versions that will run with Catalina.

OK, thanks! Things are more clear to me now. I was looking at the external drive as a separate "computer", thinking that all it needed to "boot" was an operating system and it would run as a "second" boot-able "computer" totally separate from the actual main computer itself. HOWEVER, it was a call I made to Apple that prompted me to write to this forum. I talked at length with a computer techie who I shared my screen with and he said that what I wanted to do was do-able (cloning old Mac onto external drive & moving that drive to my new Catalina Mac to be able to run my 32 bit apps on the ext drive). But he said that the 32-bit applications would run a lot slower on the external drive and some apps may not work at all. However, at that point, we had to end the conversation and I was looking for more info as to how do go about the process of cloning, etc. I know, from past experience, that some Apple Techs can give wrong advice. Following what one of them said to do years ago totally crashed my hard drive and had to be reconstructed from my Time Machine backup. So, I'll go with you-all's advice/opinions here. I think I have more faith in MacForum! Thank you everyone!

 

[IWT]

Nancy,

I think you have given a clear indication that you understand things just fine.

If I could summarise what everyone has said in one sentence, it might be:

No Mac can run an Operating System older than the one with which it shipped even if the older OS is a cloned version on a separate EHD.

Ian

 

[pm-r]

No Mac can run an Operating System older than the one with which it shipped even if the older OS is a cloned version on a separate EHD.

+1.
And I trust you sent a copy of that to Apple support. And in particular, including the Apple support tech Nancy talked to.


- Patrick
=======

 

[chscag]

I don't know who Nancy spoke with at Apple Support, but I have a hard time understanding the answer they gave her. I suspect that there may have been some confusion on the part of the Apple support person as to what exactly Nancy was trying to do.

Anyway, I'm glad that we were able to give her the correct information.

 

[DominikHoffmann]

I have an early 2008 iMac running on El Capitan 10.11.6. I bought a new Mac running Catalina 10.15.7. I realize my older 32 bit apps (like Quark, Filemaker Pro, Adobe Photoshops Elements, etc.) will not run on my new 64 bit Mac. Question: If I clone my old Mac onto an external hard drive and plug that hard drive into my new Mac, can I chose to boot up from the external drive and run my 32 bit apps? Would I have to reformat the external drive (which is new) before I clone to it? Would cloning automatically make the external drive bootable and run my El Capitan and apps?

I have a Canon DR-2010C scanner, for which Canon released drivers last, when High Sierra came out. No 64-bit drivers were or will be released. My solution is to have installed High Sierra in a Parallels virtual machine and the Canon software in that. It’s a bit cumbersome, but I can still scan with my MacBook Pro now running Big Sur.

I am sure this would be a feasible route for you, as well. When installing the older OS in the VM and booting it for the first time, you would likely be able to use Migration Assistant to copy everything over from your old iMac.

 

[hughvane]

My 10c worth. Run both Macs - assuming you wish to keep the older one - through an HDMI splitter. It's then a simple matter to toggle between the two Macs and OS according to need.

This is exactly what I do with my two Minis when I need access to older apps. I have partitioned the older Mini to accommodate both Snow Leopard and El Capitan.

Triple dip!

 

[krs]

I have a Canon DR-2010C scanner, for which Canon released drivers last, when High Sierra came out. No 64-bit drivers were or will be released. My solution is to have installed High Sierra in a Parallels virtual machine and the Canon software in that. It’s a bit cumbersome, but I can still scan with my MacBook Pro now running Big Sur.

I am sure this would be a feasible route for you, as well. When installing the older OS in the VM and booting it for the first time, you would likely be able to use Migration Assistant to copy everything over from your old iMac.

I was under the impression from other posts in this forum that Parallels could not be used on Big Sur.
If that is not true and Parallels does work with Big Sur, would that not also be an option to run Windows that way with Big Sur?
I think a separate thread about running Parallels on Big Sur would be very useful since it opens up the option of running the odd 32-bit Mac application and Windows on Big Sur

 

[pm-r]

I have a Canon DR-2010C scanner, for which Canon released drivers last, when High Sierra came out. No 64-bit drivers were or will be released. My solution is to have installed High Sierra in a Parallels virtual machine and the Canon software in that.

Why not give Hamrick's VueScan.app a trial as that Canon scanner seems to be fully supported and it runs in all macOS versions it seems:

Supported Scanners | VueScan Scanner Software

VueScan is compatible with 7455 scanners from 42 manufacturers on Windows, Mac OS X and Linux

www.hamrick.com

Purchase VueScan for macOS, Windows, and Linux

Save your scanner from the Landfill. Purchase VueScan and keep using the scanner you already have.

www.hamrick.com

- Patrick
=======

 

[chscag]

I was under the impression from other posts in this forum that Parallels could not be used on Big Sur.
If that is not true and Parallels does work with Big Sur, would that not also be an option to run Windows that way with Big Sur?

Parallels Desk Top version 16 works with Big Sur and should be able to run Windows as before. Unless you're thinking of Parallels running on a Mac M1 machine? In that situation, even though Parallels could run with Rosetta 2, it can not virtualize Windows. Parallels is working on a solution.

 

[krs]

Ah.... yes
Thanks for clarifying that again.

I wonder how people manoeuvre through that minefield if they don't have the benefit of this forum

 

[Rod]

With some difficulties I imagine.

 

[ferrarr]

Parallels Desk Top version 16 works with Big Sur and should be able to run Windows as before. Unless you're thinking of Parallels running on a Mac M1 machine? In that situation, even though Parallels could run with Rosetta 2, it can not virtualize Windows. Parallels is working on a solution.

@DominikHoffmann is running a virtual High Sierra inside Big Sur, on an older MBP.