Can I make a second mac into a true clone of my present one?

[AndrewDun]

For Internet purposes I have a 2015 iMac, but for everything else I use a 2008 A1225 iMac, and sometimes a 2008 MacPro, both running Snow Leopard (10.6.8). This is because I have several programs from Classic days, which Snow Leopard can run on Intel wth Rosetta. I also have some later programmes, late enough that if I do anything major to the Mac, they indicate on next opening that they require re-activation (over the Internet). When I was last in this situation it emerged that the source of the programme (who shall remain nameless, but I gather that the problem applies to other software suppliers also) no longer support my old edition, and will not — indeed cannot — re-activate it. (Re-activating in these situations used to be quite easy.) Fortunately it turned out that re-installing everything to a new hard drive using a Time Machine backup got the programme running again.
My worry is that if anything terminal should happen to my iMac, there would be no way of re-installing these programmes on another iMac without the need to re-activate. The programme has demonstrated that it can identify the machine individually. (e.g. fitting the functional hard drive in another machine leads to failure with these programmes, whereas older programmes run correctly almost whatever Mac the drive is installed in.)
What I would like to know is how the individual machine's identity is 'planted' within the machine, and how and/or whether it can be copied into another machine so that these programmes with activation requirements do not know that they are now in a different machine. (i.e. I want to clone the iMac.)
These old programmes do everything I require, and I do not want the hassle or expense or inconvenience of updating them to recent versions, which furthermore would be on subscription. I am 74, and would like to think that my present level of computing equipment and experience will see me out, as long as the hardware remains available.

 

[pm-r]

I have a 2015 iMac, but for everything else I use a 2008 A1225 iMac, and sometimes a 2008 MacPro, both running Snow Leopard (10.6.8).

I would think you could do what you want to do with some partitions and cloning software such as Carbon Copy Cloner and/or SuperDuper!, and maybe add the purchase of a older compatible Mac and maybe an external bootable hard drive.

I believe the mid 2011 iMac was the last Mac model that could run snow leopard and needs the special 10.6.8 installer.

I have the same model and have various partitions from Snow Leopard, 10.6.8 currently running El Capitan 10.11.6 with the potential of running High Sierra for its latest supported OS.

With such a Mac model, you could carry on as you are currently doing and just shut up the various OS versions with the software and Mac OS version you want to use at the time.

I hope I understood and answered your question correctly as to what you actually want to do.

It sure works for me for those times I need or want to use some old software that doesn't have a proper upgrade available.


Good luck.



- Patrick
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[AndrewDun]

Thank you, Patrick, for your incredibly prompt reply. I don't know whether you recognise the problem of software detecting the individuality of the machine. I do routinely make sure that I have a cloned spare hard drive in case I need a rapid recovery from a failed hard drive. But I find that fitting the clone (or original) hard drive in a different (even though nominally identical) machine brings up the problem that some programmes demand to be re-activated (by temporary connection to the supplier), but the supplier now will not perform the re-activation, saying that it is my edition is longer supported. The problem does not occur with any of the older software, which could easily be reinstalled on nearly any old Mac.
So my question revolves round the idea of making one Mac a real clone of another, so that no software can distinguish between them.

 

[pm-r]

So my question revolves round the idea of making one Mac a real clone of another, so that no software can distinguish between them.

As far as I know, is all depends on the software's developer and how any licensing agreement is set up and or controlled.

Maybe a software develope/programer member could answer your question better.

What I do know is a lot of newer software as well as the Mac OS has locked things down so much that the user cannot deviate much from a proper normal install.

The bottom line for newer stuff seems to be follow the install guidelines othere'sr be prepared to have the software not working. The old phrase of it just works is no longer valid if the new installation rules are not followed.

But I guess you can try doing the various stalls the way you want to and see if things work or not the way you want. It might be interesting to find out what happens.





- Patrick
=======

 

[MacInWin]

What I would like to know is how the individual machine's identity is 'planted' within the machine, and how and/or whether it can be copied into another machine so that these programmes with activation requirements do not know that they are now in a different machine. (i.e. I want to clone the iMac.)

I believe the "identity" is embedded in firmware in the form of a digital id. And cloning does not copy that code, nor does running a virtual machine. So, if the activation is tied to that unique identifier, then there is no real way to do what you ask.

Now, if the vendor doesn't read the actual machine ID, but depends on some file that it puts in place, cloning and/or a virtual machine might work.

I've had it work both ways (blocked and allowed), depending on the developer.

As advice, it's time to start thinking and preparing for when those old machines die. You can only stretch them so far before they do fail and when they do, you may get zero notice. If these things are really important to you, then you need to have a contingency plan for how to recover from a total failure. What you don't want to discover is that there is NO bridge between those old programs and files and anything you can find today. I tried to help a shop owner who was in that exact circumstance a few years ago. She had an inventory progrm that ran under Windows 95 (!) that she had never updated or upgraded. Then her PC died and she ended up with no way to migrate the old files into the newer version (six generations) of the same inventory program. Even the developer said that he had gotten rid of the "old" conversion software that she would have used to migrate from one generation to the next. He never expected anybody to be using version 1.0 at the time I contacted him. Her only option was to install the new version of the inventory and re-inventory her entire shop, or find an old PC that still had Win95 on it (She had long ago lost the install disks, so we had no way to reinstall anything at all.) She limped along on paper for a few months and then went out of business totally. Sad to see.

Don't get caught, make a plan and start the migration now, before it all dies.

 

[Rod]

All cudos to you for keeping these vintage machines active but to answer your primary question, no, I don't beleive there is any way you can transfer a Mac's device ID (serial number) to another device. While as you obviously know you can clone your HD's data to another HD or even transfer the physical HD to another device the individual device identifier remains, hard wired into the device itself.

Jake (above beat me to it) but I agree completely with his last paragraph. Despite your outstanding efforts at keeping these devices productive there must come a time that they will fail. I would start preparing for that eventuality asap while you still have the current software and records to refer to.

 

[AndrewDun]

O dear. I was afraid that it might be as cut-and-dried as that. My hope, rather than expectation, was that someone would point to some little not-too-multi-legged flashed-memory component somewhere on the main board which Apple has flashed with a unique code for the machine. If so, it could be a matter of unsoldering it from one machine and putting it into another, or for someone with a certain amount of knowledge, reading its memory and writing it into a new un-flashed device to install in another computer.
Another approach, evidently familiar to certain knowledgeable people, would be to explore the code of the un-cooperative software (via Open Package Contents?) and look for some code controlling the activation. But I am a mechanical engineer with some knowledge of electronics, and while to employ the first remedy (unsoldering and replacing an existing identity-defining device) would be quite possible for me, reading and writing flash memory would involve some new learning, and the software 'hacking' approach would be quite beyond me.
I appreciate greatly the advice on making sure that all my data remains accessible. I have several vital databases in Filemaker Pro and I would probably do well to import them into Libre Office as a sort of data bank from which they could be recovered by something modern in an emergency. Many thousands of photos are in iPhoto. I have made a few half-hearted attempts at migrating to Photos, but so far getting the 'descriptions' to move over with the photographs has defeated me. But at least iPhoto itself seems to be happy to move to different machines (as does Fitemaker, I realise). It is the wretched 'activation' programmes which cause me the worry, not so much as regards loss of data — most of their output exists as pdfs — but I would be hampered by being unable to open earlier work in their original programmes for re-use, or by being unable to continue using familiar and entirely adequate software on a daily basis.
The precautions I take at the moment are: never letting the Snow Leopard machines come in contact with the Internet, in case some unwanted software update from one of the 'activation' programme suppliers causes them to require re-activation (I have read this this has happened to some unfortunate people); and treating them gently (no unnecessary long-term hard work, keeping the innards dust-free, etc). Finally, remain prepared to attempt component-level repairs.
But if anyone does know how to clone a computer, it would be a great help to many possibly eccentric users.

 

[MacBiter]

Thank you, Patrick, for your incredibly prompt reply. I don't know whether you recognise the problem of software detecting the individuality of the machine. I do routinely make sure that I have a cloned spare hard drive in case I need a rapid recovery from a failed hard drive. But I find that fitting the clone (or original) hard drive in a different (even though nominally identical) machine brings up the problem that some programmes demand to be re-activated (by temporary connection to the supplier), but the supplier now will not perform the re-activation, saying that it is my edition is longer supported. The problem does not occur with any of the older software, which could easily be reinstalled on nearly any old Mac.
So my question revolves round the idea of making one Mac a real clone of another, so that no software can distinguish between them.

I don't want to be a downer, but I have 2 2011 iMacs (one i5 the other i7 but otherwise identical). Occasionally I've had to run one machine after installing a clone of the other, and there are always a few applications which demand to be re-registered. One such is Scrivener whose activation was via eSellerate who are no longer in business. Luckily the good folks at Literature & Latte had released a v2.n +1 version which - after download - got around the problem (the only reason for the +1's existence).

Which is a long way round of suggesting checking with each application's developers to see if they have something similar?.

 

[AndrewDun]

I am glad that friendly software suppliers enable you to keep your old machines fully functional for you. Unfortunately the big software suppliers seem rather keen to try to force one to move to recent versions, and say that re-activation of an obsolete version is impossible. Although the hardware will probably fail terminally eventually, there still seems to be plenty available in working order second-hand. And it can last for many decades. The causes of failure in electronic equipment are fairly random, and it is not obvious to me that a second-hand old computer bought today has a future life expectancy substantially different from that of a new computer, particularly when taking into account the generally more robust construction of older equipment. I still have occasional reason to start up my 1990 Mac Classic, and it still works.
I might mention incidentally that I recently found that my lathe (in more or less daily use) was built before 1916, and the 600,000 miles I have driven in my life have almost all been powered by the same 1965 diesel engine, again still in good working order. I hope it will seem me out!

 

[MacBiter]

I appreciate greatly the advice on making sure that all my data remains accessible. I have several vital databases in Filemaker Pro and I would probably do well to import them into Libre Office as a sort of data bank from which they could be recovered by something modern in an emergency. Many thousands of photos are in iPhoto. I have made a few half-hearted attempts at migrating to Photos, but so far getting the 'descriptions' to move over with the photographs has defeated me. But at least iPhoto itself seems to be happy to move to different machines (as does Fitemaker, I realise). It is the wretched 'activation' programmes which cause me the worry, not so much as regards loss of data — most of their output exists as pdfs — but I would be hampered by being unable to open earlier work in their original programmes for re-use, or by being unable to continue using familiar and entirely adequate software on a daily basis.
The precautions I take at the moment are: never letting the Snow Leopard machines come in contact with the Internet, in case some unwanted software update from one of the 'activation' programme suppliers causes them to require re-activation (I have read this this has happened to some unfortunate people); and treating them gently (no unnecessary long-term hard work, keeping the innards dust-free, etc). Finally, remain prepared to attempt component-level repairs.
But if anyone does know how to clone a computer, it would be a great help to many possibly eccentric users.

ONE. I bought FileMaker Pro 10 cheap from Amazon when FMP 12 was current, and last year I bought FMP 12 from eBay. You might not need Libre Office as FMP will convert old databases to a later format?

TWO. This is where Libre Office DOES come in useful, as it will open very many old file formats in WP SS DB etc. You can use LO to edit those documents though you will not be able to save it in the old format but something more modern and universal such as pdf.

THREE. Yes, I remember I disconnected Photoshop Elements 6 permanently, and Photoshop CS6 while setting it up, for this very reason.

FOUR. I don't believe it is possible to clone hardware? You can clone everything running on it, but each machine has a unique number which is stored ... where? On a ROM chip somewhere?

 

[AndrewDun]

One: I agree — Fillemaker Pro seems pretty safe. I started with an early Filemaker, and I think I had to find a copy of Filemaker Pro 5 as an intermediary to converting to 8, which I have been using for many years. This was easier than going via one of the many formats in which FM can export, because many of them (if not all) place limits on the number of characters in each field, which FM does not. I would not want to discover later that long entries had been truncated. And, like other older programmes, it travels quite happily on a clone HD from Mac to Mac.
Four: There must be Mac enthusiasts who are at home with soldering irons and data analysers, and don't find Mac main boards too daunting to touch, and would think nothing of finding and reading the ROM. But I don't come across them!