Blog Article 8-17-21: Do You Have A Backup - #4: A Small Interlude

[Rod]

personally I was thinking of the Intel machines, the silicon models are a horse of a different colour but theoretically I reason it should be possible but I have a lot to learn about SoC and the inbuilt security.

 

[timehawk]

The Mx systems will NOT boot if the internal storage has a failure.
OK, lots of words so I'll stop there.

Thank you, Jake, for that excellent explanation! You really know the bits behind the bytes!

And while people can't boot a backup with a failed SSD, they might have their math notes on the cloud as well, so they can use their phone or iPad until the repair gets done. ☁

 

[Rod]

I practicle terms I wondered if I was to install Monterey on my wife's 2018 MBP and ran into the USB hub problems some are having could I boot from a USB thumb drive Big Sur installer, erase the HD, reinstall Big Sur and restore her Data from a Clone of Big Sur? Sorry that's a huge sentance. Probably a huge question too. I was not even sure if I could create a bootable installer of BS on a thumb drive until tonight and yes, I tested it and it appears to be bootable. Food for thought huh?

 

[RadDave]

Thanks Jake for your excellent and thorough explanations of the M-series issues - just getting back into the forum after waiting for iOS/iPadOS 15.1 releases to upgrade my iDevices - with that done, I now need to think about my aging Mac laptops (early 2013 MBPro & 2015 MBAir); our Intel SSD iMac is fairly new (2019) but is on Catalina - waiting for some Monterey updates to be released; Apple has really shifted their paradigm in the last few years creating much confusion, at least in my mind. Thanks again and looking forward to more sage advice in the future! Dave

 

[chscag]

Apple has really shifted their paradigm in the last few years creating much confusion, at least in my mind. Thanks again and looking forward to more sage advice in the future! Dave

Not just you Dave, but even an old head like myself who has been doing this for years on end. Thanks to Jake for his analytical approach and understanding. It really helps.

I'm waiting to see what Apple does next year with regard to the larger format iMac. Lots of rumors floating around as usual but it seems Apple is on track to change everything over from Intel to their own Silicon.

I still have a favorite program that needs Windows and that gives food for thought. I'm currently running it with CrossOver. We shall see.

 

[RadDave]

Not just you Dave, but even an old head like myself who has been doing this for years on end. Thanks to Jake for his analytical approach and understanding. It really helps.

I'm waiting to see what Apple does next year with regard to the larger format iMac. Lots of rumors floating around as usual but it seems Apple is on track to change everything over from Intel to their own Silicon.

I still have a favorite program that needs Windows and that gives food for thought. I'm currently running it with CrossOver. We shall see.

Hi Charlie - I'm currently reading Glenn Fleishman's book below (v. 1.2, released a week ago) - usually enjoy his writing but he's on the topic of 'backing up & cloning' which I'm understanding but I just cannot see someone not that interested in the 'technology' wanting to mess w/ rather complicated suggestions - I'm contemplating buying a M-series laptop at the moment but w/ my other two working perfectly fine and meeting my needs, is it wise for me? And should I upgrade my MBAir to Monterey since it's 'on the fence'? Well, I shall read on to better understand Apple silicon but may just wait to see what develops in the near future? Thanks for the comments - Dave
.

 

[MacInWin]

There is another scenario though. What if one installs Monterey and like we often see on this forum decide that for some reason they must revert to the previous macOS? Would it be possible to boot from an earlier bootable installer or bootable clone to erase the internal drive and reinstall the previous macOS along with the Data volume in the case of a bootable clone?

Rod, that is definitely possible. You would have to erase and reformat the internal, but you could boot from the external as long as the internal is still functioning. You'd have to change the boot drive in either System Preferences of following the other process I mentioned, but it should work.

 

[MacInWin]

Thank you, Jake, for that excellent explanation! You really know the bits behind the bytes!

I have to give credit to Howard Oakley at The Eclectic Light Company . I have spent a lot of hours reading his very detailed analysis of how TM works and what are the internals of the Mx systems. I can't say I follow every thought, he gets into incredible details, but I can follow the big picture. He has probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about the subject, but it's been fun to learn. (I read his art and literature articles as well. It is "eclectic" after all!)

 

[Rod]

It's a lot to digest but in my mind, I simplified it down to this, partly for the purposes of explaining it to my wife but I realise that lots of users probably need a bit of reassurance. I think I’ve hit all the important points;



1. We hope/think there is about as much chance of the SoC system failing in the M series as the CPU in an Intel Mac. In both cases a bootable clone would be of no help.



2. The T2 chip poses another problem in later Intel Macs which by default prevents boot from an external drive unless the settings in the Boot Management Utility are changed in advance, thus lowering security of the System. Again, a bootable clone would be no help.



3. If the OS becomes damaged/corrupted in either the M1, M1x or Intel device it can still be restored/reinstalled from the Restore "partition" in much the same way for both.



4. Restoration of personal files and apps after repairs, are performed in the same way for the M1, M1x or Intel device using Migration Assistant from a clone (data), Time Machine B/U or EHD. Again, no need for a bootable clone.



This all leads us to one pertinent conclusion; a bootable clone will be unnecessary to restore future macs and of limited value for more current Intel models with a T2 chip.

 

[ferrarr]

@Rod,

I don't have a definitive answer to your excellent question - but from my reading of articles from various sources, the impression I got was, going back to a previous version is becoming extremely difficult and may be near impossible with the M1/X models.

Just like Apple's iDevices.

 

[BobCollard]

Thanks, Charlie. The situation is going to get even more complex with Monterey. Anybody contemplating upgrading to Monterey needs to plan NOW for the safety of a rollback to Big Sur. Once Monterey is installed, going back to BS is going to be very challenging. And if folks are thinking a clone will solve that for them, they are going to be very disappointed. Have a read of this for some background: Retaining access to Big Sur when upgrading your M1 Mac to Monterey

I did it, once. Hope I do not need to do it again. The steps to accomplish it include cloning the NVMe to the internal SSD, then using that as a startup. Next erasing the NVMe and installing Big Sur, changing that to startup, then erasing the internal SSD. You cannot use the Monterey startup drive to install Big Sur you need a USB.