Anyone use iDefrag?

[PapaNoHair]

Looking at a demo of iDefrag - anyone use this software? Or, is there any need for it with a Mac?

 

[cwa107]

Looking at a demo of iDefrag - anyone use this software? Or, is there any need for it with a Mac?

I have seen it, but it's kind of useless IMO. The Mac's file system automatically maintains itself unless the volume is full or very near full (less than 20% of capacity remaining).

 

[giulio]

I have seen it, but it's kind of useless IMO. The Mac's file system automatically maintains itself unless the volume is full or very near full (less than 20% of capacity remaining).

Dude that's total rhetoric. I defrag every week, there are always plenty of fragged files.

PapaNoHair,
I never tried that demo. It's pretty crippled as far as demos go. Try Disk Defrag™ from SpeedTools™. http://www.speedtools.com/Defrag.shtml

 

[cwa107]

Dude that's total rhetoric. I defrag every week, there are always plenty of fragged files.

PapaNoHair,
I never tried that demo. It's pretty crippled as far as demos go. Try Disk Defrag™ from SpeedTools™. http://www.speedtools.com/Defrag.shtml

Just going by what Apple says. Take it for what it's worth...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25668

 

[Willem]

Dude that's total rhetoric.

I've heard the same thing though - unix file systems take care of themselves for the most part. Fragmented files only become a problem when there are lots and lots of fragments. A few doesn't really matter.

Is there any kind of documented/measured proof that defragging helps a Mac? I've never defragged my Macbook Pro and it loads things as fast as the day I bought it.

 

[giulio]

Check for yourself and then decide if you need to do anything.

File fragmentation check begun on Volume "MacMini" at 9:33:52 AM on Monday, April 23, 2007

File fragmentation results summary:
Total files with fragmented fork: 358.
Total files with non-sequential forks: 54.

 

[cwa107]

I've heard the same thing though - unix file systems take care of themselves for the most part. Fragmented files only become a problem when there are lots and lots of fragments. A few doesn't really matter.

Is there any kind of documented/measured proof that defragging helps a Mac? I've never defragged my Macbook Pro and it loads things as fast as the day I bought it.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I also ran the iDefrag demo and was perplexed that it found fragmentation. I certainly didn't see a perceptible difference in performance from new. My understanding is similar to yours - that Unix filesystems basically maintained themselves.

Coming from the Windows world, I can certainly sympathize with the perceived need for maintenance, but the reality is that it just isn't necessary unless there is a specific problem. I posted a link in an earlier reply with the official stance from Apple. Who do you trust? The folks that built the OS or a vendor trying to sell (and create a need) for their software?

 

[D3v1L80Y]

I can certainly sympathize with the perceived need for maintenance, but the reality is that it just isn't necessary unless there is a specific problem. I posted a link in an earlier reply with the official stance from Apple. Who do you trust? The folks that built the OS or a vendor trying to sell (and create a need) for their software?

Exactly. I have over 20 years experience using Macs, and I have seen and used just about all of the incarnations of the Mac operating system. Not a single one really required any daily, weekly, or monthly user maitenance.
The only real task I ever needed to do prior to OS X, was rebuild the Desktop file every so often, and that was hardly ever. In OS X, it hadn't changed much, especially since the cron scripts and other tasks run automatically overnight (if you actually leave your machine running, and not in sleep mode). There is practically nothing that a user would need to do to his Mac OS X system.

This overwhelming need to defrag, run disk checks, and perform countless other maintenance tasks is a holdover from Windows.
If it makes someone feel safer or more secure by doing things like then, then so be it.
Simply put however, with Mac OS X it is in no way necessary, nor does it offer any great benefit for your system. It is more of a security blanket if anything.

 

[giulio]

I don't see a trust issue. Its a matter of fact. If I check for fragmentation, I see it. Maybe it's not so bad, and not an issue to perfomance or stability at all. But to say the OS defragments automatically is simply not true. But Apple says it's so.
So who do you trust now? A small vendor selling a product for a few bucks or one trying to sell thousand dollar machines?

Apple is great. And I love the platform. But I get irked when folks follow/listen to Apple blindly.

 

[cwa107]

Apple is great. And I love the platform. But I get irked when folks follow/listen to Apple blindly.

Just because the fragmentation exists, doesn't mean that it impacts system performance or needs to be mitigated immediately. As Apple points out, these tasks occur automatically - even if they're not done immediately. So, sure, if there's a performance problem related to fragmentation - by all means, use a tool to correct it. But from what I understand, just because it exists doesn't mean that it's a problem.

I'm not saying that you should follow Apple blindly, but if you're looking for an authority on the subject, I'd certainly be more inclined to listen to the developer than the company trying to market a product.

 

[Aptmunich]

AFAIK OS X does automatically defragment (that's the "System optimization" you'll sometimes see after installations), but only up to a certain file size.

I think it's good enough to keep the system's performance fairly snappy, but if you really want peace of mind, iDefrag is quite good.

It's also useful if you want to install bootcamp on a fairly full harddrive - sometimes you'll get an error message due to fragmentation.

 

[BIG D 04]

....I'd certainly be more inclined to listen to the developer than the company trying to market a product.

Aren't they both trying to Market A Product? :bomb:

 

[giulio]

Are there any other times the OS automatically defragments, besides Software Update or installing applications? Daily/Weekly/Monthly cron task?
None that I know of. I'm not the last word and authority on this. But if the OS doesn't defrag periodically all by itself, its not automatic.

I ran my test this morning and found 300+ fragmented files. I'll run today's Software Update which does a 'system optimization'. I know this because I ran it on my other mac already. Then I'll check if the files were defraged by the install. Stay tuned!

 

[Willem]

I don't think the issue is if there is fragmentation or not, the issue is whether or not it matters.

A better test would be to run some speed tests on the drive, defrag it, and run them again. If there's a major difference, then it's worth doing. If not, then not so much.

 

[giulio]

Reading through this post, it looks like I'm a big weenie. But I'm really not trying to be a jerk.

Here are the results, before and after doing a system update with 'optimizing system':

File fragmentation check begun on Volume "MacMini" at 9:33:52 AM on Monday, April 23, 2007

File fragmentation results summary:
Total files with fragmented fork: 358.
Total files with non-sequential forks: 54.

I quit every program, and ran the update, which had me restart. Running the test again:

File fragmentation check begun on Volume "MacMini" at 12:03:38 PM on Monday, April 23, 2007

File fragmentation results summary:
Total files with fragmented fork: 354.
Total files with non-sequential forks: 54.

So it looks like 'Optimizing System" does not equal "and defragmenting files". It's probably doing something else, more important.

This test doesn't answer the question "does it matter". I don't have a benchmarking program so I can't answer that one.

 

[RONE]

But to say the OS defragments automatically is simply not true. But Apple says it's so.

It does automatically defragment SMALL files.

So it looks like 'Optimizing System" does not equal "and defragmenting files". It's probably doing something else, more important.

Optimizing system performance is actually pre-kernelling (or something weird like that) I believe.

 

[cubbie5150]

As a recent switcher, I purchased iDefrag b/c I just assumed I had to have some sort of defragging app... In any event, I've run iDefrag twice via booting off the CD (which can be burned w/ the burning app that is bundled w/ iDefrag). I also do not have a benchmarking app to test, but I can say that my machine "feels" a bit snappier after I run iDefrag. Admittedly, it could simply be a placebo effect....

 

[giulio]

rone, it's called 'prebinding'. im not exactly sure what it does.

 

[Aptmunich]

Yeah I just looked it up as well...

Pre-binding somehow relates to the mach kernel and speeds up application launch times. It has been deprecated in 10.4 but still runs it seems.

 

[technologist]

I don't see a trust issue. Its a matter of fact. If I check for fragmentation, I see it. Maybe it's not so bad, and not an issue to perfomance or stability at all. But to say the OS defragments automatically is simply not true. But Apple says it's so.
So who do you trust now? A small vendor selling a product for a few bucks or one trying to sell thousand dollar machines?

Apple is great. And I love the platform. But I get irked when folks follow/listen to Apple blindly.

I get irked when folks blindly do something without any good reason.

You have some fragmented files. Sure.

File fragmentation results summary:
Total files with fragmented fork: 358.
Total files with non-sequential forks: 54.

A whopping 358 files. I don't know about yours, but my Mac currently shows a little over half a million files. So that would be less than 0.1%.

Fragmented files happen, because they're often the most efficient way to store a file. It would take more time to arrange files sequentially than just to plop them wherever the read-write head happens to be. Occasionally, these build up to the degree that your Mac might start to run slower...so OS X keeps these files below a certain limit automatically. That limit was decided on by Apple's filesystem engineers based on actual performance data.

Apple does not say that you will "never" have fragmented files. But Apple's engineers have decided that, below a certain limit, you will spend more time "fixing" fragmented files than you will ever get back in increased performance. In some cases, you may destroy the hot-file clustering optimization that Mac OS X already uses.

Blindly deciding that Fragmented files are bad! They'll kill your Mac! is just stupid. It's like the obsessive-compulsive people that wash their hands every ten minutes because germs are bad. You're doing more harm than good.

Summary
* Fragmented files are created for a reason
* A certain percentage of fragmented files are okay
* Mac OS X normally keeps the number of fragmented files under the "okay" limit
* Manual defragging is a waste of time and energy
* Manual defragging may interfere with the optimization features of OS X and cause your Mac to run slower