Anyone have guns?

[baggss]

Standard 10 round clip but Beretta offers extended clips for 14 & 17 rounds each.

 

[AngryRedTicTac]

One thing you have going right now is magazine availability, the Cali Mags are probably the only things available, so you aren't stuck trying to score 14s or 17s. People have gone so totally nuts that even my little 7 rounders for my P938 are gone, and going for double retail on fleabay. Can't remember how many his came with, I know he brought 3 to the range, but I don't know how many extras he bought with it.

I don't know if the .40 will be the same, but my friends 9mm didn't like UMC until it was broken in, the slightly larger case rim lip wouldn't feed at all. It ate everything else we threw at it, but you may want to start with something else unless UMC is all you can find. Which, if your stores look anything like ours up here, is totally possible ;-)

 

[iggibar]

Nice pistol Bags!
...
I am totally unfamiliar with your new pistol.

Sorry...I had to...lol

 

[baggss]

One thing you have going right now is magazine availability, the Cali Mags are probably the only things available, so you aren't stuck trying to score 14s or 17s. People have gone so totally nuts that even my little 7 rounders for my P938 are gone, and going for double retail on fleabay. Can't remember how many his came with, I know he brought 3 to the range, but I don't know how many extras he bought with it.

I don't know if the .40 will be the same, but my friends 9mm didn't like UMC until it was broken in, the slightly larger case rim lip wouldn't feed at all. It ate everything else we threw at it, but you may want to start with something else unless UMC is all you can find. Which, if your stores look anything like ours up here, is totally possible ;-)

I noticed that it's hard to get the 14s or 17s from the manufacturer or a local shop but they are available on e-bay. I'm tempted to try and see if I can get one, if only just to have. I'm considering a laser sight as well just for grins, they aren't that expensive and there are several that Beretta sells directly on the Web. Could be fun. They are legal in Cali and the shop from whom I purchased the gun even said they wold help site it in both with and without if I'd like. Nice group of folks actually.

 

[MacNasty]

Sorry...I had to...lol

What can I say, it's beautiful...but I've never heard of this model before or seen one. Still waiting for the "better mousetrap" I guess. Would love to hear how it shoots though.;D

 

[iggibar]

What can I say, it's beautiful...but I've never heard of this model before or seen one. Still waiting for the "better mousetrap" I guess. Would love to hear how it shoots though.;D

It's all good...just bustin your chops

 

[iggibar]

I noticed that it's hard to get the 14s or 17s from the manufacturer or a local shop but they are available on e-bay. I'm tempted to try and see if I can get one, if only just to have. I'm considering a laser sight as well just for grins, they aren't that expensive and there are several that Beretta sells directly on the Web. Could be fun. They are legal in Cali and the shop from whom I purchased the gun even said they wold help site it in both with and without if I'd like. Nice group of folks actually.

I've never had good luck with lasers. Had both Crimson Trace grips and Lasermax under frame lasers. Both had problems and had to be sent back to the manufacturer. Still haven't received the Lasermax back yet. I don't trust them anymore. If I had to mount something, it would be a high lumens light...those hurt when pointed at your face. What I learned, from a few exercises, is that a laser doesn't magically make you aim better. If you are under heavy stress, you will have equal tremors while aiming through the sights or laser. What I have used them for it to judge how much movement I have while steadying at the target, which I still aim through the sights.

 

[MacNasty]

I've never had good luck with lasers. Had both Crimson Trace grips and Lasermax under frame lasers. Both had problems and had to be sent back to the manufacturer. Still haven't received the Lasermax back yet. I don't trust them anymore. If I had to mount something, it would be a high lumens light...those hurt when pointed at your face. What I learned, from a few exercises, is that a laser doesn't magically make you aim better. If you are under heavy stress, you will have equal tremors while aiming through the sights or laser. What I have used them for it to judge how much movement I have while steadying at the target, which I still aim through the sights.

During one "experiment" that I participated in an attempt was made to recreate certain conditions during a gun fight. Most of us donated blood to simulate hypovolemia. Some were injected with epinephrine to simulate the adrenaline dump. The end result? Even with the muscle tremors from the "fight or flight" adrenaline dump a weapon is controllable enough to accurately hit center mass. There was no appreciable difference in shooting skills after participants donated a unit of blood (of course shock had NOT been induced).

As far as laser sights I've never been a fan. I like tritium since tritium sights don't point back to me in the dark. Spec Ops guys use non-visible lasers with night vision goggles. Unfortunately I don't have their funding.

As an aside I got a real kick out of that movie about hunting Bin Laden when they entered his compound and you could see all the green lasers. Having been involved with them at one point I can tell you that you'd never have seen any visible lasers.

 

[AngryRedTicTac]

I have had some fun with a good green laser on my Sig 522, but since a real green is half as much as my rifle I can't imagine buying one anytime soon. It did make it even more fun to play machine gunner with though. As for pistols I am in the quality night sight camp, love the Siglights on my P938, and need to refresh the ones on my 3913. When I get a full size with a rail for night stand duty, it'll get a couple hundred lumen light, but it'll have night sights as well.

Sprinting and shooting is a fun one, really makes you appreciate the difference between range shooting and combat shooting. I really want to get into IDPA when I get such a pistol, as good as I am with my Smith something with better than 8 rounds and no mag disconnect will be necessary...

 

[iggibar]

During one "experiment" that I participated in an attempt was made to recreate certain conditions during a gun fight. Most of us donated blood to simulate hypovolemia. Some were injected with epinephrine to simulate the adrenaline dump. The end result? Even with the muscle tremors from the "fight or flight" adrenaline dump a weapon is controllable enough to accurately hit center mass. There was no appreciable difference in shooting skills after participants donated a unit of blood (of course shock had NOT been induced).

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said, though there is a difference between hitting center mass and a specific point on a target. The longer you are in FoF mode, the more impact it has on your body. Removing blood, to levels that are not drastic enough to affect your bodies homeostasis, has no play muscle tremors, for your veins automatically constrict to make up for any loss in volume. If you removed enough blood during this experiment, and something happened, you have worse problems than aiming your handgun. Of course, there are exceptions for everyone. If someone is a well experienced shooter, they most likely trained to counter such instances of sudden shock. So, to them, all this stuff is not that big of a deal, but to the average home owner who has a gun for defense, it can play a huge role. There's so much more I could go on with, but...
A lot of people who are newbies to lasers think it is a tool that makes them aim better. It is not. That's why I was saying, for that average home owner accuracy won't differ between laser and sights.
I will say this though, the Crimson Trace laser was so powerful that it could make a room glow red at night, especially if the room was white with the laser hitting the paint.

 

[Berk]

My current project. Not the first modern sporting rifle I've owned but my first build. CMMG lower, VLTOR MUR upper, Bravo Company Manufacturing barrel and gas system, Daniels Defense quad rail and MagPul OD green furniture. It's still not put together because I still need a Bolt Carrier Group and charging handle. With the political climate the way it is, prices are insane if you can even find parts.

 

[iggibar]

My current project. Not the first modern sporting rifle I've owned but my first build. CMMG lower, VLTOR MUR upper, Bravo Company barrel and gas system, Daniels Defense quad rail and MagPul OD green furniture. It's still not put together because I still need a Bolt Carrier Group and charging handle. With the political climate the way it is, prices are insane if you can even find parts.

Sweet. Something else for me to look forward to.

 

[Berk]

I got an email last Friday that BCM had some BCG in stock and by the time I ran down stairs and got on the computer they were sold out. )-:
Patience.

Glad you like Iggibar!

 

[baggss]

.
A lot of people who are newbies to lasers think it is a tool that makes them aim better. It is not. That's why I was saying, for that average home owner accuracy won't differ between laser and sights.
I will say this though, the Crimson Trace laser was so powerful that it could make a room glow red at night, especially if the room was white with the laser hitting the paint.

I've never used one, although I have had the opportunity to. It's not so much about aiming better but the psychological value. Some guy standing in your living room trying to jack your TV, armed or not, is likely to poop himself when that laser light hits his chest. Then again, I could buy a cheap laser pointer and achieve the same effect most likely.

 

[iggibar]

I've never used one, although I have had the opportunity to. It's not so much about aiming better but the psychological value. Some guy standing in your living room trying to jack your TV, armed or not, is likely to poop himself when that laser light hits his chest. Then again, I could buy a cheap laser pointer and achieve the same effect most likely.

Yeah, I totally know what you mean. I'm not sure how effective a laser would be in that regard though. I've pointed a laser at myself to see if I could notice it, and it's pretty hard, especially if you're wearing dark clothing. My my lower peripheral vision is crap, or my chin is huge. I would aim for the face, or their eyes.

 

[AliOop]

As a friend once opined, using a laser is letting others know where you're at. I think I'll forego them and work on my aiming.

 

[TattooedMac]

As a friend once opined, using a laser is letting others know where you're at. I think I'll forego them and work on my aiming.

And as we got used to in the Military, the Flash/Bang of said weapon can give away your position too

 

[XJ-linux]

I've never met anyone who did something worth being shot over, that would be intimidated in the least by a red dot on their chest. I have found lasers to be a good aid when you are trying to learn how to point shoot. The IR lasers are good if you and a group of buddies (wearing NVGs) are trying to keep other people's heads down from a long way away at night.

 

[MacNasty]

Sights

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said, though there is a difference between hitting center mass and a specific point on a target. The longer you are in FoF mode, the more impact it has on your body. Removing blood, to levels that are not drastic enough to affect your bodies homeostasis, has no play muscle tremors, for your veins automatically constrict to make up for any loss in volume. If you removed enough blood during this experiment, and something happened, you have worse problems than aiming your handgun. Of course, there are exceptions for everyone. If someone is a well experienced shooter, they most likely trained to counter such instances of sudden shock. So, to them, all this stuff is not that big of a deal, but to the average home owner who has a gun for defense, it can play a huge role. There's so much more I could go on with, but...
A lot of people who are newbies to lasers think it is a tool that makes them aim better. It is not. That's why I was saying, for that average home owner accuracy won't differ between laser and sights.
I will say this though, the Crimson Trace laser was so powerful that it could make a room glow red at night, especially if the room was white with the laser hitting the paint.

Used any of the "aim point" style sights Iggy? Always thought the concept was good.

 

[MacNasty]

I have had some fun with a good green laser on my Sig 522, but since a real green is half as much as my rifle I can't imagine buying one anytime soon. It did make it even more fun to play machine gunner with though. As for pistols I am in the quality night sight camp, love the Siglights on my P938, and need to refresh the ones on my 3913. When I get a full size with a rail for night stand duty, it'll get a couple hundred lumen light, but it'll have night sights as well.

Sprinting and shooting is a fun one, really makes you appreciate the difference between range shooting and combat shooting. I really want to get into IDPA when I get such a pistol, as good as I am with my Smith something with better than 8 rounds and no mag disconnect will be necessary...

I always thought the "Mag Disconnect" was S&W's biggest mistake. A solution for a nonexistent problem. I was heavy into Smith's and collected their semi's and revolvers for years. But that one feature made me go back to 1911's. There is the solution of keeping trigger pressure on till the mag is replaced but I just don't like the whole concept of making my functional weapon non-functional.