2020 MacBook Pro wake from sleep issues

lclev · Jun 20, 2020

I have no plans to purchase a Caldigit device - unless you all will kick in the $200? One guy in Macrumors was in love with it. I have a smaller Mokin adapter that does all I need and was fine for my 2017 and the 2020 I sent back.

All I know is something is hinky (that is a technical term for those who don't know - means weirdly messed up. ;D ). The USB issue involving the keyboard and trackpad needs to be addressed if this reinstall does not work.

Lisa

MacInWin · Jun 20, 2020

@krs, here is where I read what I posted: Some 2020 MacBook Pro and MacBook Air Users Experiencing Issues With USB 2.0 Accessories - MacRumors

It says, in part:

USB-C hubs vary in their functionality and there are two types:

1. USB hubs that are transparent proxies
- The Anker, Satechi and StarTech hubs
2. USB hubs that are terminating proxies
- The CalDigit hub and anonymous person on the internet and their monitor hub

Transparent proxies take the USB 2.0 input and present it as USB 2.0 to the *MacBook Pro*. The Mac or Catalina then will do something wrong and the USB 2.0 devices will freeze / become unresponsive at some point (minutes or hours after being attached).

Terminating proxies take the USB 2.0 input, terminate it, and present it as a fresh input that is USB 3.0 to the *MacBook Pro*. Everything is good in this scenario.

pm-r · Jun 20, 2020

All I know is something is hinky (that is a technical term for those who don't know - means weirdly messed up. ).

I like your description better than my built-in dictionarie's one:

• (of an object) unreliable: my brakes are a little hinky.

Actually, I thought the real descriptor was supposed to be: FUBAR

- Patrick
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krs · Jun 20, 2020

MacInWin said:
@krs, here is where I read what I posted: Some 2020 MacBook Pro and MacBook Air Users Experiencing Issues With USB 2.0 Accessories - MacRumors

Thanks Jake,

Interesting article and lots of interesting comments.

What I get out of that, at least for one potential problem, is that Apple seems to expect to 'see' some or maybe all of the data/power pins of USB 3 on the Macs USB-C connector even for a USB 1 or USB 2 device.
Why Apple expects to "see" data/power pins for a USB 2 device that don't even exist in USB 2 is beyond me.
But that would at least explain why a hub that presents the 9-pin USB 3 interface to that Mac works and a hub that presents the 4-pin USB 1 or USB 2 interface does not.
There may also be power check issues involved as well - I had the problem moving from El Capitan to Mojave, my unpowered USB 3.0 hub stopped working in Mojave; however using a powered USB 3.0 hub worked just fine.
This is strictly a software issue since both El Capitan and Mojave arerunning on the same 2012 MacMini.

MacInWin · Jun 20, 2020

@krs, I think what is strange is that the issue seems to be with 2020 machines, not the ones previous to that with the same USB-C ports. So it does not sound like software, unless it's in firmware somewhere. Firmware would be strange, I think. Based on that, I think that unless and until someone with a USB-C system that is NOT 2020 has the issue, we can't say it's software. It will be interesting to see if Apple even tries to address it, or just presses on and let the hub makers figure out not to go the cheap way.

I never use unpowered hubs. Learned that a long time ago.

krs · Jun 20, 2020

@Jake - There were a few people in the comment section who reported problems with 2018 and 2019 Macs, but there also seems to be a lot of confusion about what people actually reported and how valid their reports are.
So maybe these are different issues, I didn't really try to analyze any of the comments to see what makes sense and what does not.

The problem I have with an unpowered USB 3 hub going from El Capitan to Mojave (totally different from the USB-C issue of course) I would think is definitely software - or one could argue could possibly be 'fixed' with a software update.
What happens in my case, I think, is that Apple decided to check if the connected device, in this case a USB 3 hub, can provide the required power to the device or devices connected to that hub if those devices need it.
Sort of makes sense, one wouldn't want a connected DVD drive read properly (since power requirements for that are relatively low) and then fail every time one wants to burn a DVD (since power requirements when burning are higher - too high for an unpowered hub).

lclev · Jun 20, 2020

Well I have done a fresh install and it did not fix the issue. I got a popup saying there was no keyboard or trackpad/mouse connected. It takes either a few seconds to start working or the need to push and hold the power button to shutdown and restart happens. Sometimes the pointer won't move initially for a few seconds then all is good.

The apple tech did tell me I should always power my laptop off every time I am done to prevent the issue. I told him I am not accepting that as I have never had this issue before with any of our other Mac laptops.

I will be calling Apple when I get to work tomorrow or Monday. I am not sure if they are in on Sunday. I want an expedited replacement. We shall see...

Lisa

krs · Jun 20, 2020

Lisa - Just to be clear.

Are you having two issues with your new MacBook Pro?

1. The keyboard and/or trackpad don't always work when you wake up the Mac from sleep; sometimes you even get the message that there is no keyboard connected,
and
2. The problem with the USB 2 / USB-C hub

or are these two issues somehow related?

lclev · Jun 21, 2020

The usb-2 hub issue seems to have been "fixed" or at least I am not having problems using it - except as it applies to the keyboard and trackpad.

BIG issue is the wake from sleep. The trackpad and keyboard is unresponsive and if I don't touch the trackpad or keyboard it will stay that way for well, until I get tired of waiting. Once I start pressing keys the notice pops up that there is no keyboard attached. After a few seconds the keyboard starts working and so does the trackpad.

I will be informing Apple on Monday that I want a new replacement. This is unacceptable.

Lisa

pm-r · Jun 21, 2020

Once I start pressing keys the notice pops up that there is no keyboard attached.

So what told it that you were typing in the first place??? How did it know???

After a few seconds the keyboard starts working and so does the trackpad.

And is this then the end the end of the problem???

If so, it sounds to me like it's part of the start up process.

Maybe the boot orders could be changed around so the keyboard and trackpad get found and mounted before the final boot procedure is finished.

If that is the case, I would be surprised if a new BTO replacement would fix the problem unless they did some software mods or hacks.

The apple tech did tell me I should always power my laptop off every time I am done to prevent the issue.

What sort of Apple BS is this for a solution?? That is sad to get told such a Stupid suggestion.
Maybe ask them why their quality-control and R&D is so bad that such a basic thing doesn't work properly, if that is the actual case.

- Patrick
======

krs · Jun 21, 2020

pm-r said:
If so, it sounds to me like it's part of the start up process.

Maybe the boot orders could be changed around so the keyboard and trackpad get found and mounted before the final boot procedure is finished.

The MacBook Pro is just awakening from sleep - there is no boot process; or there shouldn't be.

What makes no sense to me at all that a message would come up that there is no keyboard connected.
How can one not have a keyboard connected on a MacBook? It's connected permanently.

I received that message on my Mini when I upgraded from El Capitan to Mojave because Mojave for some reason doesn't recognize a connected keyboard if it's connected via a USB hub (El Capitan does). That at least makes some sense, but that message coming up o a MacBook?????

pm-r · Jun 21, 2020

The MacBook Pro is just awakening from sleep - there is no boot process; or there shouldn't be.

What Really Happens When You Put Your Mac to Sleep?
What Really Happens When You Put Your Mac to Sleep?

- Patrick
======

krs · Jun 21, 2020

pm-r said:
What Really Happens When You Put Your Mac to Sleep?
What Really Happens When You Put Your Mac to Sleep?

Sorry Patrick, I don't know what you are getting at.
The slowest function waking up from sleep is spinning up the hard drive which takes a fraction of a second, but that doesn't even apply in this case since the drive is an SSD.

The boot process of the Mac on the other hand is quite elaborate and takes much more time, it's basically what Apple support suggested - shut down the Mac when done and boot it up every time.
What happens in the Mac OS X boot process?

lclev · Jun 21, 2020

Patrick - I am not sure if my tapping the keyboard and trackpad is actually doing anything or if the OS is finally catching up and finding them. Not sure. Sometimes it comes out of sleep just fine. Once it starts working it is fine.

The Apple tech and I had a long discussion over the need to totally shutdown. Needless to say we disagreed. I came to the conclusion he was a nice young man who need a bit more real world experience.... anyway. I explained letting computers sleep is a very common practice with restarts only occasionally. I currently have 2 Macs and 3 PC's sleeping in my office at work. They all wake up instantly - including keyboard and mouse/trackpad. Furthermore what my 2020 is doing is unacceptable.

More to follow after I talk to them Monday!

Lisa

pm-r · Jun 21, 2020

Once it starts working it is fine. ... ... ...
Furthermore what my 2020 is doing is unacceptable.

This is the part I don't really understand, the new Mac just takes a little bit longer to actually wake up, but it also seems to be a fairly well loaded BTO Mac with a bit more to cope with than the average model.

- Patrick
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lclev · Jun 21, 2020

I can handle the "takes longer to wake up" but having a popup stating it can't find a keyboard? The time it takes to "find itself" is getting longer too. Plus getting the occasional message that the USB hub is pulling too much power when nothing is attached to it? Something isn't right.

Lisa

pm-r · Jun 21, 2020

Something isn't right.

OK, that makes more sense and I would agree, it doesn't make any sense, if that makes any sense, and something sure seems rather goofy and certainly not right. At least not as far as a normal working Mac should work!!!

How disheartening for you.

- Patrick
======

ferrarr · Jun 21, 2020

lclev said:
I can handle the "takes longer to wake up" but having a popup stating it can't find a keyboard? The time it takes to "find itself" is getting longer too. Plus getting the occasional message that the USB hub is pulling too much power when nothing is attached to it? Something isn't right.

Lisa

Have you looked under System Preferences > Bluetooth > Advanced, and checked if; Notify if Mouse/Keyboard is not detected?

lclev · Jun 21, 2020

Yes, and under advanced there are three options all checked. That is why when it can't find it's own keyboard I get the notice it is hunting for a bluetooth keyboard.

Lisa

ferrarr · Jun 22, 2020

And if you disable those two options, you won't get the notification any more.