2020 MacBook Pro wake from sleep issues

[lclev]

So I got my 2020 13" MacBook Pro. Love the keyboard and she sure is fast. Whipped through a large and layers photoshop file with no hesitations.

BUT I do have an interesting issue with it. When I close the lid and put it to sleep then wake it up sometime the mouse and keyboard do not work right away. It has gone so far at to report no keyboard attached and the mouse either does not show or the pointer won't move. I discovered if I lightly and quickly press the power button it comes out of it just fine. Once it is awake there are no problems nor spinning beachballs

I have also seen a warning about a USB issue something about power to a device. I did a PRAM reset and SMC which seems to have fixed the issue.

I am wondering how concerned I should be. I am still within the 14 day period but it took a long time to get this one as it is a BTO model so sending it back would mean another long wait.

Another piece of info - when I got it I used migration. For some reason on reboot it went into what I would call a boot loop. The apple logo appeared the bar went half way then a restart. This went on for several attempts. I finally shut it down and did a wipe and reinstall of the OS. The second time migration went great and all was good.

Ideas? Suggestions? Thoughts?

Lisa

 

[pm-r]

I finally shut it down and did a wipe and reinstall of the OS.

LOL...!!! I first read that line as did a wine and reinstall.

That should fix all kinds of problems...



- Patrick
======

 

[iggibar]

Honestly, if it were mine, I would try to do a clean install, and set it up with the programs how you normally intended it to be. Then see how it works. If that shows the same issues, I would take it to apple and ask to return it based on the issue. You paid too much for that for it to have an issue.

 

[ferrarr]

Have you looked in System Preferences > Security & Privacy? Is there an option/setting to "Trust USB devices"? Like the iPadOS/iOS Passcode option? I was thinking this because of the Apple T2 chip?

 

[krs]

@Lisa - It's not really clear to me...are the wake from sleep keyboard/mouse issues still there after you reinstalled the OS?

On the USB power message, try your USB device that takes to most current in each of the USB ports to see if there is any issue or the message comes up.
Shouldn't since USB 3 provides a lot more power than USB 2 did; if there is a problem or message, there may be an issue with the USB current monitoring circuit of the Mac.

 

[IWT]

@Lisa

I think this is rather disappointing. You are a highly experienced lady and know how to trouble-shoot, how to do a PRAM and SMC reset, and wipe and reinstall.

For very many users, these "faults" you encountered would pose a major challenge. In my view they should never have happened.

If it weren't for your high skill level and the lengthy wait for a BTO replacement, I'd advise sending it back.

Just my thoughts

Ian

 

[lclev]

Well here is what I "think" might be going on.

First - I have never attached any peripherals to any of the USB ports other than the one time I did a CC backup. The issue of the USB warning occurred with no externals attached but as we know the USB rails handle the keyboard and trackpad which have been the issue.

Second - I had to reinstall the OS before I ever got to test the original install. When I first got it and turned it on the option to do a migration was offered and I went for it. When that had an epic fail and it started the rebooting loop, that is when I did a clean install complete with wiping (no wine involved ;D ) the SSD.

Now as to what I think is going on.... I happen to read on another forum - not sure which as I tend to search any and all - that the new battery health feature might be at fault. So I turned it off just to see what would happen. Since I have done that I have not had the issue. I am wondering if there's a bug in the process that is not allowing enough power when waking that could be the issue.

I will keep you posted as for now "she" is performing flawlessly. If it still is a problem I will send her back. I did get AppleCare+

Lisa

 

[lclev]

Update - The battery health feature was not the issue. I have discovered that there is a known issue dealing with USB 2.0 and hubs. This is an issue on MacBook Pro's and MacBook Air's 2020 and even some 2018 & 2019 models. For some reason when a hub is attached the symptoms I described occur. The weird thing is disconnection the USB hub still leaves it listed in System Report -> USB and this causes issues with the keyboard and mouse.

Various suggestions are given - one involve buying a CalDigit USB-C Pro Dock hub that cost $200 - um, NO. Several people have returned their 2020's and found the issue persist on the new one too. The only time I have used a USB-C hub was to attach a USB 2.0 device and do a CC backup. I have also used the hub to run an HDMI monitor but that seems to not cause issues according to what I have read and I had none.

So what I am planning it to use a USB-C drive to do my CC backups. That should not cause issues. Hopefully Apple will come up with a fix. I have a feeling the T2 chip could be involved but I can't substantiate that other than my intuition.

It really runs very well and since the USB hub is no longer listed in system report I haven't had issues.

Lisa

 

[pm-r]

@Lisa

For some reason when a hub is attached the symptoms I described occur. The weird thing is disconnection the USB hub still leaves it listed in System Report -> USB and this causes issues with the keyboard and mouse.

It really runs very well and since the USB hub is no longer listed in system report I haven't had issues.

What if anything is needed to get it un-listed from the system report???




- Patrick
======

 

[lclev]

Getting it unlisted seems to require shutting it down - or that is what has worked for me. I am not really sure that is the issue as I still have it happening and nothing is listed nor have I had any hubs attached. I plan to give apple a call. We shall see.

Lisa

 

[ferrarr]

Have you tested with just a clean instal? No migration from previous Macs? Maybe even without Apple/iCloud ID login?

 

[krs]

I have discovered that there is a known issue dealing with USB 2.0 and hubs. This is an issue on MacBook Pro's and MacBook Air's 2020 and even some 2018 & 2019 models. For some reason when a hub is attached the symptoms I described occur. The weird thing is disconnection the USB hub still leaves it listed in System Report -> USB and this causes issues with the keyboard and mouse.

I had an issue along those lines on a 2012 Mini when I upgraded from El Capitan to Mojave.
Keyboard, mouse and external USB DVD drive were no longer recognized when connected via a USB 3.0 hub in Mojave even though they all worked fine in this configuration in El Capitan.

Not exactly the same issue but still USB and USB hub related.
And definitely a software issue in my case when an unpowered USB hub is used - problem on Mojave seems to go away with a powered USB hub.

 

[lclev]

I seem to be looking at a clean install. Ouch! I have tried setting up a new account. That did not work. I guess I will be trying a clean install. That will have to happen tomorrow at work where I have much faster internet.

I will let you know how that goes. I still have 5 days before my 14 days are up.

Lisa

 

[chscag]

I will let you know how that goes. I still have 5 days before my 14 days are up.

Make sure you document the call with Apple if you decide to return your MBP. Just trying to get hold of anyone at Apple Support or Customer Support is quite an effort.

I've been trying for several days just to get hold of someone in support so I can schedule a battery change for our 7+. The phone is no longer in warranty so of course I will have to pay $49 plus tax. They finally scheduled an appointment for me at my local Best Buy store. Yikes... That should be interesting having the Geek Squad swap out the battery.

I guess everyone knows that Best Buy is an Authorized Apple Repair Service and reseller. No appointments available at my local Apple Store which is only 10 minutes away.

If you decide to return the machine, take photos of it before you pack it and then double up the bubble wrap and padding in the box. Too many horror stories over at MacRumors about folks returning items by UPS or FedEx and having Apple call and say that the item was damaged.

Anyway, I hope you don't have to return it.

 

[MacInWin]

I read that the issue with hubs is that there are two ways for the hub to accommodate USB2 and USB-C devices used together on the hub. One is to just pass the signals through as they are, which is cheaper and doesn't work as well. The other is to convert the USB2 to USB-C in the hub and pass that to the Mac, which is what the Caldigit hub does. But that conversion costs money, so not many people go that way. I guess it depends on whether or not that USB2 connection is important to you. I seem to remember similar challenges back-in-the-day with serial port protocols before USB.

 

[pm-r]

I seem to remember similar challenges back-in-the-day with serial port protocols before USB.

Is that similar to the SCSI voodoo that I recall always lurking in the background???

If I remember, the first rule was to always follow the rules of SCSI.
The second rule was if things didn't work, disregard the first rule!!!

Ohhhh was it a happy day when everything actually worked.





- Patrick
=====



- Patrick
======

 

[krs]

The other is to convert the USB2 to USB-C in the hub and pass that to the Mac, which is what the Caldigit hub does.

What is there actually to convert that would justify a $200.- price tag?
When one connects a USB 2 device via an adapter to a USB-C port on the Mac, one only gets the capabilities, data transmission speed and power, that USB 2 is capable of regardless of the USB-C capability
A USB to USB-C adapter cable from Apple is just a few dollars.

The Caldigit hub that Lisa mentioned is essentiall a "Swiss Army Knife", it's much more than a plain hub and includes adapters/converters for a widerange of protocols and port types.

There is a bit of discussions on adapting USB to USB-C here:
Converting Existing USB Designs to Support Type-C Connections

 

[MacInWin]

From the article you cited:

USB Type-C is not just a new USB connector. It is a framework for the future. Dedicated USB Type-C PHYs and controllers will be available. This will allow ASICs and SoCs to be redesigned to natively support USB Type-C. Until then, multiple solutions exist for converting existing product designs to USB Type-C. Solutions range from trivial to challenging depending on the required USB Type-C product capabilities.

I'm not an electrical engineer, I just know what I read. As for the cost, if you are the ONLY device that works properly, you get to charge whatever you want. Then a competitor comes along and you have to decide what to do. But as the article says, "Solutions range from trivial to challenging depending on the required USB Type-C product capabilities." You get what you pay for, I guess.

 

[lclev]

Well I did get through to Apple support. I now have a case number. The guy I was working with tried to start a remote diagnostics but with my slow internet that did not complete. I was a home and I did warn him! I am currently getting ready to wipe it and do a reinstall. If this works that means I get to manually reinstall all my apps as using CC will probably cause the issue again as it would be software related. I do have a Time Machine backup which I may use. I am also doing a backup of my files first.

We shall see. The first 2020 I returned because I wanted the 32GB of memory and more storage had no issues at all. I did a very successful migration from my 2017 and it ran great but I only had it for a week or so.

At least I have a case number with Apple. I am hoping this reinstall works. While I can live with the problem, as eventually the keyboard and trackpad will work, I do not know if it is hardware will it get worse.

Will keep you updated.

Lisa

 

[krs]

Jake,

What you quoted was a comment about converting existing product designs to USB-C, not about a USB 2 to USB-C adapter which is what I was wondering about.
A USB 2 to USB-C adapter will only be able to provide the capability of USB 2.0 (speed and power) but now allows the USB 2.0 device to be plugged into a USB-C port, that is conceptually the same as the capability of plugging a USB 1 keyboard into a USB 2.0 port, it works without problems but one only gets USB 1 speeds and power not USB 2 speeds.
Same applies plugging a USB 1 or USB 2 device into a USB 3 port, again one only gets the USB 1 or USB 2 capabilities of the device that is connected.
Same for USB 2.0 to USB-C adapter.
The most electronics for such an adapter are some pull-up resistors.

So I'm still wondering where the "convert" Usb 2.0 to USB-C comes from.
The only 'conversion', if one can even call it that, is the physical shape of the connector and the pin assignment.
And that is reflected in the price Apple charges for a USB 2 to USB-C cable.

Going back to Lisa's post #8, it would be interesting to find out what is so different with the USB-C port on the Caldigit device.