Filevault Problem On El Capitan

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Screen Shot 2015-10-10 at 10.26.20.png

OK so several days ago i upgraded from Mavericks to El Capitan. It was running sluggish and then i learned it was in the middle of a filevault encryption that had frozen so i ran 'sudo fdesetup disable' and since then its began decrypting and frozen again. I am at my wits end right now because this macbook is what i use to run my business on and using it has been a nightmare.

Does anybody have any idea on how i would either stop the decryption fully or restart it and try again?
 

Rod


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How did you establish that it had frozen in the first place? Did you try the Force Quite command? If it was unresponsive you could and still may be able to quit and restart it. Resorting to terminal as a first response is not a good idea. I would try everything else first.
 
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You cant force quit filevault, it went 2 hours without updating, restarted probably around 15 times trying to figure it out
 

chscag

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Do you have a backup? Since this is a machine used for your business, we're assuming you've been backing it up? If so, boot to your recovery partition (hold down command + r and reboot the machine) and enter utilities. From utilities you can erase the hard drive, format it this time without using FileVault. Re-install El Capitan and afterward restore your data from the most recent backup. We strongly recommend not using FileVault if at all possible. If you have no backup, post back and we can try something else.
 
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No back up I'm afraid, although I won't get caught without one again after this
 

chscag

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No back up I'm afraid, although I won't get caught without one again after this

Not good news. :[ OK, well we surely don't want to erase the drive right now. Try this for us: Boot to recovery (Command + r) and select utilities. Try to run Time Machine from within Recovery. Follow the directions given in this Apple Forum Discussion Thread. If you're successful in making the Time Machine backup, we can then proceed with trying to erase the drive and do a clean install of El Capitan and then restore. Let us know how this goes.
 
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chas_m

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Unless you are a member of a top-secret organization, the use of Filevault is entirely unnecessary and, as you've discovered, can cause a lot of problems (though your lack of a backup is clearly the biggest mistake made in this particular case). Turn it off and leave it off.
 
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Really?!

Do you really believe that there is no need to use FileVault as a private individual in this day and age?

So you'd be happy for your stolen laptop to be trawled through at leisure by however nicked it?

Good grief man.

FileVault 2 is very stable and well supported. I have just been responsible for deploying it to an estate of over 1500 Mac laptops for a F500 company, you think we'd do that if it wasn't necessary/stable.

My best advice with FV is, make sure you don't have McAfee (their issue not Apple's) installed, enable FV, make sure you record your recovery key in multiple places and allow iCloud unlocking. Then forget FV is there, it does not affect performance to the point that most everyday users would notice.

Unless you are a member of a top-secret organization, the use of Filevault is entirely unnecessary and, as you've discovered, can cause a lot of problems (though your lack of a backup is clearly the biggest mistake made in this particular case). Turn it off and leave it off.
 

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@far_north

I am in no position to challenge your opinion on File Vault; but I'm pretty sure you would agree that the crucial issue here is the total absence of any form of backup. If your data is vital to your livelihood or precious enough to protect it with high-grade encryption, surely it is even more important to have a backup strategy?

Ian
 
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Absolutely Ian, I cannot agree more. In fact I would go further and say that use of FileVault makes multiple decent backups even more important.

As we used to say, if you don't have 3 copies, you don't have it at all...

@far_north

I am in no position to challenge your opinion on File Vault; but I'm pretty sure you would agree that the crucial issue here is the total absence of any form of backup. If your data is vital to your livelihood or precious enough to protect it with high-grade encryption, surely it is even more important to have a backup strategy?

Ian
 
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chas_m

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Yes really. Read on and maybe learn something.

Do you really believe that there is no need to use FileVault as a private individual in this day and age?

Yes. Read on and maybe learn something.

So you'd be happy for your stolen laptop to be trawled through at leisure by however nicked it?

They'll have to work out my login password AND defeat the two-factor authentication first. Do you think they could do that? I don't.

FileVault 2 is very stable and well supported. I have just been responsible for deploying it to an estate of over 1500 Mac laptops for a F500 company, you think we'd do that if it wasn't necessary/stable.

I didn't say it was unstable, nor did I say it would affect performance. But tell me this: what's your fix when a user comes to you with FV enabled and has forgotten or lost the password, or believes it to be correct but it doesn't work?

Let me know when you've got an answer for that one, and I'll consider changing my recommendation. I've seen WAY too many users ignore proper procedure and lose their data to EVER recommend it to "normal users." You'll see soon enough ...
 
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MacInWin

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In addition to what chas_m said, consider that there is a somewhat safer alternative in that you could, in that F500 company, simply put the user folder in an encrypted dmg instead of using FV for everything on the drive. At least that way when it comes time to update the machine you don't have to worry about getting the sequence wrong and ending up losing everything on the drive that the user needed for the business. And it's just as secure as FV would be. Now, to prevent losing the password for the dmg you could use something like 1Password to store a strong password outside the dmg and let the end user use an easy-to-remember but strong password for 1Pass and you've got a convenient, relatively safe place for business files and a system that can be updated pretty easily. No need for FV at all.
 
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They'll have to work out my login password AND defeat the two-factor authentication first. Do you think they could do that? I don't.

Ok, let's go back to basics. The login password and any 2factor auth will only prevent the user from actually logging into a console session as you. However, if an attacker/thief wants access to your data, and that data is not encrypted-at-rest (as with FileVault), they immediately have at very minimum 3 options available to them:

- Boot in single user mode, mount an external volume and copy the data.
- Boot from an external device (UDB, FW, TB drive etc), copy the data.
- Remove the drive/SSD, mount in another machine, copy the data.

Beyond this there are many more ways, but these would be my first goto methods.

So you can see that no matter how strong your password and how many factors of auth, if the data is not encrypted it is vulnerable.

I didn't say it was unstable, nor did I say it would affect performance. But tell me this: what's your fix when a user comes to you with FV enabled and has forgotten or lost the password, or believes it to be correct but it doesn't work?

Let me know when you've got an answer for that one, and I'll consider changing my recommendation. I've seen WAY too many users ignore proper procedure and lose their data to EVER recommend it to "normal users." You'll see soon enough ...

I do indeed have an answer for that, as I alluded to in my original post. FileVault has several mechanisms for recovery from lost credentials. The first of these, that could be used for both corporate and individual users is the recovery key that FV generates and displays to the user when he volume is initially encrypted, it looks something like this: ABCD-1234-EFGH-5678-IJKL-9012. This can be stored in either digital or analogue format and is a user's secondary unlocking credential for FV. A user can also link FV recovery to iCloud and use their Apple ID to authenticate and retrieve an unlock key.

In a corporate environment, we also use a master key that Back Office team can use to unlock any Mac encrypted with our FileVault profile. We combine this with multiple users enabled for FV unlocking, individual, per machine unlock keys for Front Office use and the master key for last ditch. Oh yeah, and backups for disaster recovery.

We happen to use the JAMF Casper management system that aids us with deployment, management, compliance reporting and storage of keys, but there are other recovery key escrow solutions available including free ones such as Cauliflower Vest.

You could even bake your own solution using the generally pretty decent fdesetup tool provided by Apple in the OS for command line management of FileVault. The eat their own dog food and use this tool themselves doing fdesetup authrestart for OS upgrades.

For further reading one this I recommend my comrade in arms Rich Trouton, who has a supreme knowledge of this and writes excellent articles (103 articles tagged FV alone at time of writing!)

In short, when a user comes to me here, in a corp environment, I have 3 ways to get them back in and I have backups if none of the above work. If a non-corp person comes to me with this issue, I ask where their recovery key is, failing that, go to iCloud method and beyond that ask where they backup to. If they don't have a backup, I hand them a tissue, and tell them that they've learnt several lessons for future: take multiple backups (Crashplan anyone), read dialogs, record important looking credentials/keys.


I would agree that FileVault is not something to be enabled blindly and without knowledge, or at least reading the dialogs presented, but I will vociferously argue that there's really no reason not to use Apple's full volume encryption system that I can see, and in the current climate with much more tech savvy criminals about I would say many people would be sorry if they didn't.
 
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@MacInWin, you could do that, but that was effectively what FileVault v1 did and it was deeply flawed. It also has fewer recovery vectors.

I personally would not re-invent the wheel back to a version that has already been invented and subsequently discarded as not fit for purpose. The current FDE offering from Apple is better than anything they've done before (not saying it is perfect yet) and really pretty decent in and of itself.
 

Rod


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I personally have been promoting the use of an encrypted dmg. for "average" users for some time. I have a step by step plain English description of the process for El Capitan with pictures. I strongly believe that a combination of physically securing the device eg in a safe or restraint in the workplace, multiple backups (at least one bootable) a strong user password activated on sleep and an encrypted dmg. folder for sensitive data pretty much covers the bases. I appreciate FileVault has improved since inception (it certainly needed to) but I still think total encryption of a HD just adds an additional layer of complexity to repair of common system related problems.
 
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chas_m

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In addition to what chas_m said, consider that there is a somewhat safer alternative in that you could, in that F500 company, simply put the user folder in an encrypted dmg instead of using FV for everything on the drive. At least that way when it comes time to update the machine you don't have to worry about getting the sequence wrong and ending up losing everything on the drive that the user needed for the business. And it's just as secure as FV would be. Now, to prevent losing the password for the dmg you could use something like 1Password to store a strong password outside the dmg and let the end user use an easy-to-remember but strong password for 1Pass and you've got a convenient, relatively safe place for business files and a system that can be updated pretty easily. No need for FV at all.

MacInWin (and Rod) FTW. :)
 
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Apple support told me: "Don't use FV with ElCapitan. There are issues..."

I had an issue with login for multiple accounts on my (MB 12" running El Capitan). I have the main owner account on the MB, and I setup a second account with Admin rights, which I use on a daily basis. The problem I had was that after a cold boot or a restart, I could not login into my daily use account. I first had to login with the owner account and then logout in order to have the daily use account appear on the login screen. No matter how I changed the login settings the daily use account would never display, nor could I get the initial login screen to show the [User ID] [Password] fields.

So I made use of my complementary Apple Care call to get some help.
After going through all the settings I already tried without success the support went to talk to an expert and came back with "Do you have FV enabled? It is probably the cause." So I disabled FV on both accounts, ran through a couple of restarts and all is working as it should now.

On a follow up call with support I asked if I could reactivate FV. (I have TimeMachine active all the time - so I have backup).
The Apple Support person told me:
"You should not re-activate FV. Your login problem will reappear".
Me: "Why? This setup was running perfectly on my previous machine, a MB-Air running El-Capitan as well."
Support: "Well there are know issues with FV on El-Capitan for which we have no fix yet. We recommend not to use it."
Me: "What could happen?"
Support: "It could freeze and then you loose all your data".

Can anyone confirm there are known issues with FV on El-Captian?
Thanks
 

chscag

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Can anyone confirm there are known issues with FV on El-Captian? Thanks

I would have to assume if Apple told you what you have reported to us, then there are issues. Do you not believe Apple support?
 
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I would have to assume if Apple told you what you have reported to us, then there are issues. Do you not believe Apple support?

I found the response a bit strange: First my login issue would re-appear and then she talks about general issues. Also the support person seemed very surprised I would want to re-enable FV.
Further more, Googling "Filevault issues El Capitan" does not return many relevant results. It does not seem to be discussed on Apple forums.

That's why I am sceptical.
 

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