Android Is As Open As The Clenched Fist I’d Like To Punch The Carriers With

Android Is As Open As The Clenched Fist I’d Like To Punch The Carriers With
Android Is As Open As The Clenched Fist I’d Like To Punch The Carriers With

In short the article is saying Google is keeping Android open-ish but the phone carriers are putting up their own walls to make the whole experience very closed indeed. So in short you can't get a truly open experience. And in that case the one who has the best closed experience is iOS.

I think I saw this one coming.

However, what's up with Windows Phone 7? Microsoft is claiming that there "strict" hardware requirements that have to be met for a manufacturer's phone to run WP7.

Does anyone here think that carriers will do the same to Microsoft as they did to Google?

What if Apple becomes available on further carriers in the US- will they try to control Apple as well?

the8thark said:

Android Is As Open As The Clenched Fist I’d Like To Punch The Carriers With
Android Is As Open As The Clenched Fist I’d Like To Punch The Carriers With

In short the article is saying Google is keeping Android open-ish but the phone carriers are putting up their own walls to make the whole experience very closed indeed. So in short you can't get a truly open experience. And in that case the one who has the best closed experience is iOS.

Click to expand...

And thus the reason I continue to remain loyal to the iPhone. I've been following the Android since early on and kept telling myself that if only it matured a little bit more… but no. It's just continually degenerating into a Windows-like experience.

lifeisabeach said:

And thus the reason I continue to remain loyal to the iPhone. I've been following the Android since early on and kept telling myself that if only it matured a little bit more… but no. It's just continually degenerating into a Windows-like experience.

Click to expand...

Huh?
It has matured greatly over the past couple of years.

I'm also not understanding the "Windows-like experience". What do you mean by this?

And what do you guys expect from phone manufacturers?

The same thing happens with the iPhone. Why do you think that Facetime is only available over Wifi? The iPhone didn't have tethering until... This year? And it costs 20 bucks a month. Yeah... All phones are limited by the provider of the data.

I'm not really seeing the comparison between Android and Windows. Android is growing, Windows is shrinking.....

alexsd123 said:

Huh?
It has matured greatly over the past couple of years.

Click to expand...

So has iOS. There's a few things that Android may have done "first" (say, multitasking), and some things that have been around longer than iOS has been (say, copy/paste), but when Apple does them, they nail it. The implementation of multi-tasking in iOS is far better suited to a mobile device's needs than what anyone else is doing. And copy/paste is far easier than what any other device can do. Or so I've read.

I'm also not understanding the "Windows-like experience". What do you mean by this?

Click to expand...

Inconsistent UI from one device to the next, even within the same device. Massive device fragmentation, leading to some apps working on one device, not another. Growing number of malware. Carriers shoving growing numbers of unwanted apps…. oh just read the article!

And what do you guys expect from phone manufacturers?

Click to expand...

Well honestly they have no choice, short of writing their own OS from scratch like Apple has. They simply don't have the clout Apple has because each is just one more "beige box" manufacturer that has virtually nothing to differentiate themselves from the others.

The same thing happens with the iPhone. Why do you think that Facetime is only available over Wifi? The iPhone didn't have tethering until... This year? And it costs 20 bucks a month. Yeah... All phones are limited by the provider of the data.

Click to expand...

Facetime is only available over wifi "for now". Apple said they have to work with the carriers some more… it's likely a concession to AT&T's already stressed network in high-use areas. But it's not like you can't use other apps to video chat over 3G now on the iPhone. Facetime just happens to be a bit more revolutionary due to the sheer ease of use and high quality (no, haven't used it, but every single article reviewing it has said this). And the iPhone has had tethering for far longer than this year. The hold-up (and the pricing) is wholly on AT&T's shoulders.

I'm not really seeing the comparison between Android and Windows. Android is growing, Windows is shrinking.....

Click to expand...

A girl at work recently got a pair of LG Android phones in some 2 for $50 deal. Utter pieces of junk. Just flicking from one page to the next is choppy. She's been fussing because some of her apps don't work, her SMS is broken, and now she needs to restore it, but can't because to do so she has to back it up to some gmail account that she never uses and doesn't remember what it was or the password. At least that's her understanding of the matter. She's a ditz and probably misunderstanding something, but then if she had an iPhone, she wouldn't be having any of these problems in the first place, and restoring is simply cake via iTunes.

Anywho, the general point is that this is soooo indicative of a Windows experience.

lifeisabeach said:

but when Apple does them, they nail it.

Click to expand...

That is exactly why I am loyal to Apple. And exactly why my first smart phone will be an iphone.

Chris H. said:

What if Apple becomes available on further carriers in the US- will they try to control Apple as well?

Click to expand...

Probably not. As Apple first pitched the iphone to Verizon. And Verizon wanted all their controls and Apple told them to jump in the lake and no deal.

alexsd123 said:

It has matured greatly over the past couple of years.

Click to expand...

That's if you get the latest version of Android on your phone. Some phones sold only a few months old don't get the latest Android. So a little hard to know how good the OS is if you can't use the latest version of it.

So in short Android and WP7 might actually be good and stable OS's. But cause of their open nature the Phone carriers lock them down with their own walls. And personally I'd rather have Apple's walls then some random phone carrier's walls.

Don't get me wrong, I love the iPhone, I just don't think that Android is turning into Windows.

I'm surprised by Google really having no backbone and standing up to these carriers like Apple does. Then again, I'm not sure if Google has control over that or if it is more up to the hardware manufacturers such as HTC.

OK, not to be contrary... Honestly, I think you should use whatever devices you like. But enough already. (By the way, is this really an Apple Rumor or Report)?

lifeisabeach said:

So has iOS. There's a few things that Android may have done "first" (say, multitasking), and some things that have been around longer than iOS has been (say, copy/paste), but when Apple does them, they nail it. The implementation of multi-tasking in iOS is far better suited to a mobile device's needs than what anyone else is doing. And copy/paste is far easier than what any other device can do. Or so I've read.

Click to expand...

Regardless of whether iOS has matured, the point was that Android has matured. Whether or not iOS matured is irrelevant. No one said iOS sucked, just simply that Android has matured. So, this point is moot to the Android discussion.

lifeisabeach said:

Inconsistent UI from one device to the next, even within the same device. Massive device fragmentation, leading to some apps working on one device, not another. Growing number of malware. Carriers shoving growing numbers of unwanted apps…. oh just read the article!

Click to expand...

I'd agree here that Android is a diverse operating system, and much like Linux there are application incompatibilities between distributions. Apparently, calling it "Windows-like" is a big slam? I certainly like Mac OS X better than Windows, but I also admit that Windows has some excellent features in it as well. Of course on the malware side, there are plenty of documented exploits for both both iOS and Android. I'm not sure how this ads to the discussion as there is malware for just about any platform that isn't proprietary and inside some corporate firewall. As far as unwanted apps go... I can think of plenty of unwanted (by me) apps on the iPhone like Stocks, Weather, Facetime and Messaging that take up space and are "forced" on me though I have other preferences. Not a huge issue, but "forced" nonetheless. Again, that's iOS and doesn't really contribute to the Android sucks/rocks argument. I feel the same way about some of my Droid X apps as well, of course I just rename them from application.apk to application.bak and they conveniently quit running.

lifeisabeach said:

Well honestly they have no choice, short of writing their own OS from scratch like Apple has. They simply don't have the clout Apple has because each is just one more "beige box" manufacturer that has virtually nothing to differentiate themselves from the others.

Click to expand...

The carriers aren't manufacturers of any colored boxes, but that's just semantics I suppose. I thought the complaint was that the Android devices were different and confusing, but now the complaint is that they are all the same. I don't follow you here. Please expound.

lifeisabeach said:

Facetime is only available over wifi "for now". Apple said they have to work with the carriers some more… it's likely a concession to AT&T's already stressed network in high-use areas. But it's not like you can't use other apps to video chat over 3G now on the iPhone. Facetime just happens to be a bit more revolutionary due to the sheer ease of use and high quality (no, haven't used it, but every single article reviewing it has said this). And the iPhone has had tethering for far longer than this year. The hold-up (and the pricing) is wholly on AT&T's shoulders.

Click to expand...

Not sure what to make of this. The carrier and Apple seem to disagree on quite a bit. Probably the same situation with VZW and their suppliers. The iPhone requires a hack to run Facetime on 3G, which is fine, but that's not really a selling point either. I don't see how you can speculate on what Apple "might" enable on the phone one day (3G Facetime) as valid if you don't also give credit to what other people speculate "might" be enabled on Android someday. Neither exist now, so it's again kind of moot as to why the Android sucks or is anything like Windows. Tethering costs stink on all carriers regardless of handset these days. I'm not sure if it's really a positive or negative for any carrier/device setup.

lifeisabeach said:

A girl at work recently got a pair of LG Android phones in some 2 for $50 deal. Utter pieces of junk. Just flicking from one page to the next is choppy. She's been fussing because some of her apps don't work, her SMS is broken, and now she needs to restore it, but can't because to do so she has to back it up to some gmail account that she never uses and doesn't remember what it was or the password. At least that's her understanding of the matter. She's a ditz and probably misunderstanding something, but then if she had an iPhone, she wouldn't be having any of these problems in the first place, and restoring is simply cake via iTunes.

Click to expand...

Yes, she does sound pretty stupid. Not sure what her stupidity has to do with how Windows-like the Android is. Do you know how to restore an Android device? You reboot to restore mode, and use a backup from the SD card to restore all applications, settings and data - no computer, no cables and no internet connection is needed. We can argue which method is "better", but that's really just personal opinion.

lifeisabeach said:

Anywho, the general point is that this is soooo indicative of a Windows experience.

Click to expand...

That's your opinion and you are welcome to it. I would agree that the Android OS is definitely not as mature as the almost 4 year old Apple product. That doesn't necessarily mean Android sucks nor does it mean it's anything like Windows.

I interpreted the "windows-like" comment to mean not anything about the quality of experience, but merely that google makes an OS, but doesn't make any hardware that runs it, so the OS is at the mercy of the hardware manufacturers who are in turn at the mercy of the carriers.

iPhone is an apple OS in apple hardware, just like their computers. This concept (in my eyes) is the greatest separation between Mac and windows. It doesn't simply that the hardware end of windows or android is worse than Microsoft or google, just that there is very likely to be disparity between their visions. Apple is unified, and can build their software and hardware simultaneously from within one team and one company, rather than trying to sell concepts to one another.

XJ-linux said:

Regardless of whether iOS has matured, the point was that Android has matured. Whether or not iOS matured is irrelevant. No one said iOS sucked, just simply that Android has matured. So, this point is moot to the Android discussion.

Click to expand...

Well perhaps I should have said Android hasn't matured "to my liking". Certainly not the whole ecosystem, and I just don't see it ever happening. The iPhone has significant advantages to its "closed" ecosystem that we'll just never see with any Android device. There are many iPhone-compatible car radios that can control the iPod app directly. Speaker docks... my wife and I have docks that charge our iPhones while doubling as a clock and alarm while playing music or ambient sounds. I'm sure the Android has similar apps, but show me a dock that holds and charges an Android upright. They don't exist, or at least not with any significant choices in sizes and styles to suit one's needs.

I'd agree here that Android is a diverse operating system, and much like Linux there are application incompatibilities between distributions. Apparently, calling it "Windows-like" is a big slam? I certainly like Mac OS X better than Windows, but I also admit that Windows has some excellent features in it as well. Of course on the malware side, there are plenty of documented exploits for both both iOS and Android. I'm not sure how this ads to the discussion as there is malware for just about any platform that isn't proprietary and inside some corporate firewall. As far as unwanted apps go... I can think of plenty of unwanted (by me) apps on the iPhone like Stocks, Weather, Facetime and Messaging that take up space and are "forced" on me though I have other preferences. Not a huge issue, but "forced" nonetheless. Again, that's iOS and doesn't really contribute to the Android sucks/rocks argument. I feel the same way about some of my Droid X apps as well, of course I just rename them from application.apk to application.bak and they conveniently quit running.

Click to expand...

At least one Android phone has shipped with malware on it. There are also a few instances of malware being distributed on android app stores that do things like, oh, send SMS messages to premium numbers. I can guarantee you this number will climb over time. To date... there is ZERO malware on the iPhone. Have there been a few remote vulnerabilities? Sure, but that's another matter entirely. I'll grant you that some of Apple's included apps I'd like to tuck away and be rid of, but that's a very small number. According to the article, it's a growing problem on Android.. eclipsing the 2 or 3 on the iPhone that many people would rather do without.

The carriers aren't manufacturers of any colored boxes, but that's just semantics I suppose. I thought the complaint was that the Android devices were different and confusing, but now the complaint is that they are all the same. I don't follow you here. Please expound.

Click to expand...

Yes, it was semantics, and you know full darned well it was. Not every Windows PC is exactly the same either. I used to build my own in fact and generally had better experiences with Windows than other people have with a PC bought off the shelf. Windows is "different and confusing" also when the beige box manufacturers start tinkering with pre-installed software, adding their own UI enhancements, backup and restore methods, and so on, in weak attempts to differentiate their beige-box PC from the next one. It's the SAME THING that's going on with Android now.

Not sure what to make of this. The carrier and Apple seem to disagree on quite a bit. Probably the same situation with VZW and their suppliers. The iPhone requires a hack to run Facetime on 3G, which is fine, but that's not really a selling point either. I don't see how you can speculate on what Apple "might" enable on the phone one day (3G Facetime) as valid if you don't also give credit to what other people speculate "might" be enabled on Android someday. Neither exist now, so it's again kind of moot as to why the Android sucks or is anything like Windows. Tethering costs stink on all carriers regardless of handset these days. I'm not sure if it's really a positive or negative for any carrier/device setup.

Click to expand...

Everyone is so hung up on Facetime, as if it is the only option for video conferencing on the iPhone. Forget Facetime on 3G for a moment. There already are other apps for the iPhone that do video conferencing now over 3G. Oh look! Here's one! fring - 2 way video calls to all your friends on any mobile phone including Android phones, Nokia (S60) and other iPhones wherever you are (3G & Wifi)

Yes, she does sound pretty stupid. Not sure what her stupidity has to do with how Windows-like the Android is. Do you know how to restore an Android device? You reboot to restore mode, and use a backup from the SD card to restore all applications, settings and data - no computer, no cables and no internet connection is needed. We can argue which method is "better", but that's really just personal opinion.

Click to expand...

The point is with the iPhone, backing up and restoring is easy and brainless. And installing apps on the iPhone doesn't break other apps like... oh... SMS. Do I know how it works on Android? No, but that's irrelevant. Even from your description, it sounds a bit complicated. I can't imagine this girl doing all that. With the iPhone, it's virtually brainless. And the method you describe almost certainly is subject to problems. I also recall an update that Sprint/HTC pushed over the air that bricked a few Androids when they lost their 3G data connection in the middle of it. So apparently there are multiple ways to update an Android phone. Perhaps she's right about the way her Android is backed up and restored, while yours is different. *shrug* It's inconsistent and confusing. A technically illiterate person would have trouble with all this.

That's your opinion and you are welcome to it. I would agree that the Android OS is definitely not as mature as the almost 4 year old Apple product. That doesn't necessarily mean Android sucks nor does it mean it's anything like Windows.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying that the Android is a lousy OS. But it's got the many of the same handicaps as Windows and the Windows ecosystem. Google is also guilty of simply doing things the way everyone else is. They aren't innovating at all... just copying what already exists without thinking how to better apply it to the mobile platform. As it is, the Android would have looked and functioned more like a Blackberry if Apple hadn't changed the rules by reinventing the UI. No really, there are pictures of early Android prototypes that look just like a Blackberry.

Some of today's modern smartphones running Android cannot run the latest. Just like that PC you bought back in 2001 that ran XP, and then huffed and puffed to run Vista- and now you have a new PC running 7.

Apps that break (or aren't simply compatible with certain devices) is definitely a mirroring of the issues between Windows versions- as well as simple hardware and expensive hardware. I could try to run a game from Windows XP that will crash in Windows 7 (yes, even with compatibility mode enabled, you still have issues- but I'm not getting into that). Let's not forget that netbooks running XP can't run games for XP because the hardware doesn't support it. Similar issues.

Then you have malware. This is exactly what happened with Windows- all it took was about six to ten years (maybe less) for that crap to pop up and start ruining Windows. Well guess what, it's happening far more often on Android than it is on iOS.

I've said this before, and I will say it yet again- you are essentially providing a more secure product if you not only build the hardware, but also build the software that runs on that hardware- and that hardware ONLY.

Chris H. said:

Some of today's modern smartphones running Android cannot run the latest. Just like that PC you bought back in 2001 that ran XP, and then huffed and puffed to run Vista- and now you have a new PC running 7.

Apps that break (or aren't simply compatible with certain devices) is definitely a mirroring of the issues between Windows versions- as well as simple hardware and expensive hardware. I could try to run a game from Windows XP that will crash in Windows 7 (yes, even with compatibility mode enabled, you still have issues- but I'm not getting into that). Let's not forget that netbooks running XP can't run games for XP because the hardware doesn't support it. Similar issues.

Click to expand...

How is this any different than software that won't run between versions of OS X or programs that will run on Intel Macs but not on PPC Macs? Windows machines and Macs experience the same limitations in terms of how software works - there are software requirements (OS version) and hardware requirements. Just because Apple controls the hardware and software doesn't mean that every Mac app will work on every Mac.

Chris H. said:

I've said this before, and I will say it yet again- you are essentially providing a more secure product if you not only build the hardware, but also build the software that runs on that hardware- and that hardware ONLY.

Click to expand...

Perhaps there is some truth to that but how do you account for Linux or the BSDs which are incredibly secure and stable and when you consider each distribution of Linux and version of BSD, can run on just about anything?

vansmith said:

How is this any different than software that won't run between versions of OS X or programs that will run on Intel Macs but not on PPC Macs? Windows machines and Macs experience the same limitations in terms of how software works - there are software requirements (OS version) and hardware requirements. Just because Apple controls the hardware and software doesn't mean that every Mac app will work on every Mac.

Click to expand...

Yes But Apple give us years before you are forced to upgrade your apps. So you have a long while where your old apps will work on the new Apple devices. And all of Apple's latest devices run the latest Apple OS. Unlike Android where some phones can be released not on the latest stable Android OS. And thanks to the phone carriers locking out part os the Android OS with their own walls you just don't know if your Android apps will run on the phone you want unless you research it.

I have to honestly say that this is the first time I've heard of there being cross-device issues with software on Android powered phones. That said, I see this as an issue that demonstrates a problem with carriers and hardware makers and not Google/Android. It's not the fault of the OS that carriers and hardware developers make their version of Android unable to run certain software. I guess you could blame Google for not controlling the development and implementation of Android but again, you can't blame one group for the mistakes or actions of another in this case.

lifeisabeach said:

Well perhaps I should have said Android hasn't matured "to my liking". Certainly not the whole ecosystem, and I just don't see it ever happening. The iPhone has significant advantages to its "closed" ecosystem that we'll just never see with any Android device. There are many iPhone-compatible car radios that can control the iPod app directly. Speaker docks... my wife and I have docks that charge our iPhones while doubling as a clock and alarm while playing music or ambient sounds. I'm sure the Android has similar apps, but show me a dock that holds and charges an Android upright. They don't exist, or at least not with any significant choices in sizes and styles to suit one's needs.

Click to expand...

Found these in about 2 minutes... Apple has had a few years to build a following of devices, so give it some time.
Amazon.com: USB Sync & Charge Cradle (w/ 2nd battery support) for Motorola Droid (Included OrionGadgets 16'' NeckStrap): Cell Phones & Service
Neweggmall.com - for Motorola Droid OEM Desktop Charging Station Dock
Amazon.com: Seidio BD2-CRDTMTDD Desktop Charging Cradle Kit for Motorola Droid (Black): Cell Phones & Service
Buy.com - GTMax Motorola Verizon Droid A855 USB Cradle Twin Desktop Charger with AC Adapter

lifeisabeach said:

At least one Android phone has shipped with malware on it.

Click to expand...

Some Apple products have had crappy QC as well, though I'd agree that their OS X platform computers are second to none.
McAfee Releases Free iPod Malware Removal Tool Podcasting News

lifeisabeach said:

There are also a few instances of malware being distributed on android app stores that do things like, oh, send SMS messages to premium numbers.

Click to expand...

We all know these types of SMS attacks for premium subscription scams can happen to any phone with SMS. Reply to the wrong SMS, and you are compromised regardless of platform. It's a carrier issue. VZW allows me to disable all SMS and/or just premium SMS via my account homepage. I forget, does AT&T allow that?

lifeisabeach said:

I can guarantee you this number will climb over time.

Click to expand...

Anyone can guarantee anything. That doesn't mean anything when you don't control what's being guaranteed.

lifeisabeach said:

To date... there is ZERO malware on the iPhone.

Click to expand...

I guarantee this number will climb over time. See, I can guarantee stuff too.

lifeisabeach said:

Yes, it was semantics, and you know full darned well it was. Not every Windows PC is exactly the same either. I used to build my own in fact and generally had better experiences with Windows than other people have with a PC bought off the shelf. Windows is "different and confusing" also when the beige box manufacturers start tinkering with pre-installed software, adding their own UI enhancements, backup and restore methods, and so on, in weak attempts to differentiate their beige-box PC from the next one. It's the SAME THING that's going on with Android now.

Click to expand...

Last I checked, there are now multiple hardware and software versions running in Apple's mobile market now. Everything from iOS3 to 4.1 plus versions for older devices and the iPad.

lifeisabeach said:

Everyone is so hung up on Facetime, as if it is the only option for video conferencing on the iPhone. Forget Facetime on 3G for a moment. There already are other apps for the iPhone that do video conferencing now over 3G. Oh look! Here's one! fring - 2 way video calls to all your friends on any mobile phone including Android phones, Nokia (S60) and other iPhones wherever you are (3G & Wifi)

Click to expand...

I'm not hung up on Facetime. Speculation about what may become of Facetime over 3G someday was brought up in the thread by someone else. I simply stated that it's not available now, and thus doesn't count for much yet.

lifeisabeach said:

The point is with the iPhone, backing up and restoring is easy and brainless. And installing apps on the iPhone doesn't break other apps like... oh... SMS.

Click to expand...

Installing fring breaks Skype in many cases. Software breaks other software on most platforms if it's poorly written or dependencies are ignored. Guess the Apple closed system didn't catch that one.

lifeisabeach said:

Do I know how it works on Android? No, but that's irrelevant. Even from your description, it sounds a bit complicated. I can't imagine this girl doing all that. With the iPhone, it's virtually brainless. And the method you describe almost certainly is subject to problems.

Click to expand...

So you you can't really comment with any accuracy on the complexity of Android backups nor on the backups integrity as you don't know anything about it. The method I referred to, Titanium Backup if you care to look into it, is pretty brainless too.

lifeisabeach said:

I also recall an update that Sprint/HTC pushed over the air that bricked a few Androids when they lost their 3G data connection in the middle of it. So apparently there are multiple ways to update an Android phone. Perhaps she's right about the way her Android is backed up and restored, while yours is different. *shrug* It's inconsistent and confusing. A technically illiterate person would have trouble with all this.

Click to expand...

This forum is full of posts about people tanking their phones via Apple updates. Seems to be a common issue on many different platforms and not unique to iOS or Android.

lifeisabeach said:

I'm not saying that the Android is a lousy OS. But it's got the many of the same handicaps as Windows and the Windows ecosystem.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying iOS is lousy. It also seems to have many of the same issues that Windows and many other OS distributions (including Android) have.

lifeisabeach said:

Google is also guilty of simply doing things the way everyone else is. They aren't innovating at all... just copying what already exists without thinking how to better apply it to the mobile platform.

Click to expand...

Innovation is by definition taking something and changing it. I think both Google and Apple innovate. Not a big fan of either company when it comes to information mining their customers for ad revenue.

lifeisabeach said:

As it is, the Android would have looked and functioned more like a Blackberry if Apple hadn't changed the rules by reinventing the UI. No really, there are pictures of early Android prototypes that look just like a Blackberry.

Click to expand...

Speculation, again and I guess we will never really know as that's not the way it played out. Say, didn't Apple snag the mouse and a few other things from Xerox and improve on them?

XJ-linux said:

Some Apple products have had crappy QC as well, though I'd agree that their OS X platform computers are second to none.

Click to expand...

Like what? Which Apple products have bad QC? List some examples please.

XJ-linux said:

We all know these types of SMS attacks for premium subscription scams can happen to any phone with SMS. Reply to the wrong SMS, and you are compromised regardless of platform. It's a carrier issue. VZW allows me to disable all SMS and/or just premium SMS via my account homepage. I forget, does AT&T allow that?

Click to expand...

AT&T 100% at fault there for their lousy service. Not Apple.

XJ-linux said:

Anyone can guarantee anything. That doesn't mean anything when you don't control what's being guaranteed.

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Agreed 100%. You might as well be gambling. Same thing, placing odds and bets on an event that might or might not happen in the future.

XJ-linux said:

Last I checked, there are now multiple hardware and software versions running in Apple's mobile market now. Everything from iOS3 to 4.1 plus versions for older devices and the iPad.

Click to expand...

Yes but at least Apple tell you exactly what devices can use what devices. And they let you know when your device will be able to use the latest OS. Unlike Android where you have no idea what version of the OS you can use. You have to research it.

XJ-linux said:

Installing fring breaks Skype in many cases. Software breaks other software on most platforms if it's poorly written or dependencies are ignored. Guess the Apple closed system didn't catch that one.

Click to expand...

Yes all products have their issues. I'm sure this issue is really small and not many people experience it. I'm sure it would have been all over the media if this issue was wide spread and damaging to the use of the iphone. The antenna issue for iphone 4 was a really small issue but blown out of proportion by the media. And here with skype I'm sure if there was an issue had by more then a few people we'd have heard about it by now from the media or others.

XJ-linux said:

So you you can't really comment with any accuracy on the complexity of Android backups nor on the backups integrity as you don't know anything about it. The method I referred to, Titanium Backup if you care to look into it, is pretty brainless too.

Click to expand...

If this piece of software can do everything the developers claim in can on it's homepage here: Titanium Backup for Android ? Official Site
Then I'll be amazed. I can't say it can, never used it. But that is a lot of claims. Rather hard for me to believe them all. As in that it'll all work smoothly. But sure feel free to prove me wrong.

XJ-linux said:

This forum is full of posts about people tanking their phones via Apple updates. Seems to be a common issue on many different platforms and not unique to iOS or Android.

Click to expand...

And if everyone who used the Apple updates with no troubles at all posted then you'd have to much "this iOS update just worked" spam it'd bring the forums to halt. Yes some people have issues with the updates. But a ****load more people (much more then other mobile OS's I'd suspect) have no issues at all and do not feel the need to post this on a forum. People usually only post when there is an issue.

XJ-linux said:

I'm not saying iOS is lousy. It also seems to have many of the same issues that Windows and many other OS distributions (including Android) have.

Click to expand...

Like what issues? List some please.

XJ-linux said:

Speculation, again and I guess we will never really know as that's not the way it played out. Say, didn't Apple snag the mouse and a few other things from Xerox and improve on them?

Click to expand...

Agreed. But that's how Apple have always rolled. They take pre-existing ideas and put their own unique brand on innovation on them. It's just not a straight photocopy of the idea and then sell it.

the8thark said:

Like what? Which Apple products have bad QC? List some examples please.

Click to expand...

To name a few...
Apple Releases Fix for Mac Pro Overheating Problem
Defective iPod Nanos Caused Fires in Japan | Gadget Lab | Wired.com
IPhone 3GS Handsets Overheat, Turn Brown | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

I think Apple makes great stuff but it's important to note that no company is without its faults.

the8thark said:

Agreed. But that's how Apple have always rolled. They take pre-existing ideas and put their own unique brand on innovation on them. It's just not a straight photocopy of the idea and then sell it.

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How is that any different than any other company? Don't the successful companies innovate by improving up on what exists (to a certain extent)? Sure, you can innovate by doing something drastically new but if you were to add up all the instances of innovation in the world, most of them would be improvements. This applies to everyone including Google and Apple.

XJ-linux said:

Found these in about 2 minutes... Apple has had a few years to build a following of devices, so give it some time.
Amazon.com: USB Sync & Charge Cradle (w/ 2nd battery support) for Motorola Droid (Included OrionGadgets 16'' NeckStrap): Cell Phones & Service
Neweggmall.com - for Motorola Droid OEM Desktop Charging Station Dock
Amazon.com: Seidio BD2-CRDTMTDD Desktop Charging Cradle Kit for Motorola Droid (Black): Cell Phones & Service
Buy.com - GTMax Motorola Verizon Droid A855 USB Cradle Twin Desktop Charger with AC Adapter

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Are you kidding me? In 3 minutes the best you could come up with is essentially identical charging docks limited to Motorola's pair of Droids? One of which is made by Motorola themselves and 2 of which appear to be truly the same device, just rebadged? Show me a speaker dock, like this Klipsch iGroove, which supports every iPhone and every USB-based iPod ever made, sounds great and looks great (we have one… it truly is excellent). Your charging docks don't even have speakers, much less stereo (yeah yeah… I asked you to show me "a" dock, not "speaker" docks specifically, which is what I meant to do). Come on… this is one of the reasons why I say the Android and its ecosystem hasn't matured to my liking. Will it one day? Maybe. If Motorola doesn't decide to change up the form factor with the Droid 3, and if they achieve greater platform dominance than they do now. As it is, their Androids are competing with Androids from HTC, Samsung, LG, etc, all of which have varying form factors and charging port placements. For there to be a wide 3rd party support, there has to be greater standardization AND a certain critical mass in demand. Short of Google setting down the law on this (which would be oh so anti-openny), the Android collective would have to get their act together and agree on a standard of some sort. (LOL! Not gunna happun).

We all know these types of SMS attacks for premium subscription scams can happen to any phone with SMS. Reply to the wrong SMS, and you are compromised regardless of platform. It's a carrier issue. VZW allows me to disable all SMS and/or just premium SMS via my account homepage. I forget, does AT&T allow that?

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You're comparing someone deliberately (albeit foolishly) making a conscious effort to send an SMS to a premium number with a malicious Android app that secretly sends SMS messages to premium numbers without your knowledge? And what exactly does AT&T's tools for blocking SMS have to do with the iPhone? BTW, the answer to your question is no to the first (just call and tell them to block them all), yes to the second (via parental controls).

Anyone can guarantee anything. That doesn't mean anything when you don't control what's being guaranteed.

I guarantee this number will climb over time. See, I can guarantee stuff too.

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Tell you what… let's compare notes in a year and we'll see how many reports of malicious apps there have been since now for Android and iOS. Plan on buying me a steak dinner.

Last I checked, there are now multiple hardware and software versions running in Apple's mobile market now. Everything from iOS3 to 4.1 plus versions for older devices and the iPad.

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Yah. And your point?

I'm not hung up on Facetime. Speculation about what may become of Facetime over 3G someday was brought up in the thread by someone else. I simply stated that it's not available now, and thus doesn't count for much yet.

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The implication was that iOS couldn't do video chat over 3G, due to what Facetime allows for. I was correcting that perception.

Installing fring breaks Skype in many cases. Software breaks other software on most platforms if it's poorly written or dependencies are ignored. Guess the Apple closed system didn't catch that one.

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How does fring break Skype? When? On the iPhone? Fring deliberately pulled support for Skype (on iOS and Android) when they ran into bandwidth issues, but break Skype as in there being some sort of bug or it misbehaving? Noooo, it hasn't done that. Show me where it has.

Hmmm… a video chat client having bandwidth issues… and people wonder why Apple is limiting Facetime to wi-fi for now. Sounds to me like they are trying to be a good partner with their carriers and wait for them to be more prepared.

So you you can't really comment with any accuracy on the complexity of Android backups nor on the backups integrity as you don't know anything about it. The method I referred to, Titanium Backup if you care to look into it, is pretty brainless too.

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No, I can't, and never implied differently. But now you are telling me that for a brainless backup method, someone has to go looking for a 3rd party method to do so? And you expect that to be something someone technologically-impaired is capable of thinking of doing, much less actually doing? Why can't it "just work" out of the box?

This forum is full of posts about people tanking their phones via Apple updates. Seems to be a common issue on many different platforms and not unique to iOS or Android.

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Yeah, well it's not full of people who downloaded some app off Apple's App Store and suddenly their SMS stopped working, or they downloaded some nifty media app that started sending SMS texts out without their knowledge.

I'm not saying iOS is lousy. It also seems to have many of the same issues that Windows and many other OS distributions (including Android) have.

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Can't you do something more original than take my words and replace a couple choice ones? Oh wait… that's a Microsoft/Google thing… weakly copying others' works.

Innovation is by definition taking something and changing it. I think both Google and Apple innovate. Not a big fan of either company when it comes to information mining their customers for ad revenue.

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I would say changing something for the better. And how exactly has Google innovated with Android?

Speculation, again and I guess we will never really know as that's not the way it played out. Say, didn't Apple snag the mouse and a few other things from Xerox and improve on them?

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There's no speculation about it. Google was making a phone designed after the Blackberry. When Apple released the iPhone and re-invented the UI, Google saw the light and copied it. Oh… do you mean to imply that if Apple hadn't released the iPhone and made multi-touch ubiquitous, maybe Google would have hired and cultivated a real creative team with the vision to make the interface themselves? LOL!

As for the mouse… yes, they did. They saw the advantages that no one else did in a technology that Xerox was practically letting go to waste, or at least had no clue what to do with. And Google… hah! Well everyone saw the advantages in Apple's multi-touch. That was never unappreciated. Copying it was a no-brainer.

vansmith said:

To name a few...
Apple Releases Fix for Mac Pro Overheating Problem
Defective iPod Nanos Caused Fires in Japan | Gadget Lab | Wired.com
IPhone 3GS Handsets Overheat, Turn Brown | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

I think Apple makes great stuff but it's important to note that no company is without its faults.

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Don't forget the 15" Aluminum Powerbooks with the bad RAM slot and the iBook G3 with the video card problem, These are two issues that effected me personally.

lifeisabeach said:

Inconsistent UI from one device to the next, even within the same device. Massive device fragmentation, leading to some apps working on one device, not another. Growing number of malware. Carriers shoving growing numbers of unwanted apps…. oh just read the article!

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This is mostly BS. The UI is easily customizable, so yeah, it's different. Manufacturers come up with their own, but you can easily install whatever you want from the market.

And if by "growing number of malware" you mean two that only work in Russia that it would take a complete idiot to infect themselves with, then yeah, it's "growing."

This is all pretty much FUD. Funny how it is when there is a BS article about mostly non-existent problems full of overblown rhetoric about the iPhone, everyone here freaks out. But if it's the same crap about the competition, it get jumped on, quoted, and gloated over here.

I had an iPhone 3g, I now have an android phone, but I still have an iPad. I enjoy using most any gadget, but this brand loyalty blindness on display here is just stupid.