The situation in Israel

[TinyEric]

Let's stop this now before we become as bad as Israel and Palestine or England and the IRA!

And no, I am not making light of this terrible situation before anybody accuses me of that...

 

[PapaNoHair]

Because we did offer them land a few months ago and they destroyed everything. The government and the people donated food, clothes, and many other things but yet they don't say thank you, as a matter of fact, they kept killing our soldiers. I just feel bad for the children who have nothing to do with that, I feel sorry for them for having such dumb families. They elected Hamaas huh? Way to go, now they're running from their own country.

Interesting - kind of like what is happening right now with Israel isn't it??

 

[TinyEric]

The problem is with so many of these long-lasting conflicts is that as time goes on, those people affected by it are not necessarily in agreement with 'their' side. Human nature has proven this time and time again. I spent time in Taba in Egypt, they border Israel and the border crossing is literally a matter of yards from the Hilton Hotel. I went into Eilat and struck up a conversation with the locals there - so many of the youngsters had assault rifles slung over their shoulders whilst playing pool - so many of them had no idea what they were 'fighting' for! It was a very sad sight to behold... This was 7-months ago!

 

[baggss]

Let's not talk about Politics online. I'm an Arab (Egyptian) and I know exactly what is happening in Palestine. However, Palestinians aren't totally innocent here, I hate Israel so much but here I am saying it, Palestine isn't totally innocent.

I'm going to explain the situation briefly and I'm not lying about this.

- So Israel colonized Palestine since many years already and no one can do anything about that because most countries pussied out (excuse my tone). Israel should buy Palestine the food, clothing, education, and everything else since they colonized their country, and that's what they have been doing. However, a few days ago Israel stopped buying them stuff and Palestinians got really TICKED off about that. Our president, the Egyptian president, Hussni Mubarak met with the responsible ones in Palestine and made a deal with them, he said wait exactly 48 hours and you'll find supplies of medication, food, clothing, and everything else. Sadly, Palestine didn't listen and they started bombing Israel.

Israel warned them and asked them several times to stop that or they will strike back, but Palestinians were too stubborn to listen and they kept bombing. Of course weak, locally made bombs. However, Israel got ticked off and their patience was gone, they striked back hard and hundreds of Palestinians were dead and thousands were injured.

So why wouldn't the Palestinians listen from the first place? Now they're coming and blaming Egypt for not interfering and for not opening the gates. We opened the gates for them once, a few months ago if I recall right, and they messed up our country so much and they killed several of our soldiers. They actually just murdered a few Egyptian soldiers at the gate yesterday or before, so yes those people are totally crazy. I'm only really sad for the children who don't have anything to do with this, who are dying because of their stupid families. Why would the families elect Hamaas? The current government? Hamaas is stupid and warlike.

Sorry for my long post and I hope a lot of people understood the situation like how it really is, not just how other countries show them on the news.

This is probably the best post in this entire thread and I encourage everyone here to read it again. Here is an assessment from someone close to the source with personal and national ties to the situation yet it is clearly an even handed assessment.

+Rep to you Tarek my friend.

 

[eliehass]

I just want to say that I think everyone here is making good points, and I'm glad that we can discuss the topic in a civil manner.

That being said I agree that both sides are at fault here and no one is entirely innocent. Having lived in Israel though, (not as a citizen) it never seemed like an occupied country. There are plenty of Arab-Israelis. Israel is not a Theocracy, it is not a state that is "only for jews". I hope that both sides of this conflict can resolve it soon and stop the fighting.

 

[TinyEric]

It makes a nice change talking about 'serious' issues... I have been impressed with what people have had to say, must be because we are Mac owners!

 

[PapaNoHair]

I just want to say that I think everyone here is making good points, and I'm glad that we can discuss the topic in a civil manner.

That being said I agree that both sides are at fault here and no one is entirely innocent. Having lived in Israel though, (not as a citizen) it never seemed like an occupied country. There are plenty of Arab-Israelis. Israel is not a Theocracy, it is not a state that is "only for jews". I hope that both sides of this conflict can resolve it soon and stop the fighting.

That is a very true fact that is not reported enough. I remember reading on the internet about one community (of about 300 members if I recall correctly). They were both Israelis and Arabs and they got along just fine - no crime, etc. Too bad it doesn't spread all over the middle east.

 

[PapaNoHair]

Let's not talk about Politics online. I'm an Arab (Egyptian) and I know exactly what is happening in Palestine. However, Palestinians aren't totally innocent here, I hate Israel so much but here I am saying it, Palestine isn't totally innocent.

I'm going to explain the situation briefly and I'm not lying about this.

- So Israel colonized Palestine since many years already and no one can do anything about that because most countries pussied out (excuse my tone). Israel should buy Palestine the food, clothing, education, and everything else since they colonized their country, and that's what they have been doing. However, a few days ago Israel stopped buying them stuff and Palestinians got really TICKED off about that. Our president, the Egyptian president, Hussni Mubarak met with the responsible ones in Palestine and made a deal with them, he said wait exactly 48 hours and you'll find supplies of medication, food, clothing, and everything else. Sadly, Palestine didn't listen and they started bombing Israel.

Israel warned them and asked them several times to stop that or they will strike back, but Palestinians were too stubborn to listen and they kept bombing. Of course weak, locally made bombs. However, Israel got ticked off and their patience was gone, they striked back hard and hundreds of Palestinians were dead and thousands were injured.

So why wouldn't the Palestinians listen from the first place? Now they're coming and blaming Egypt for not interfering and for not opening the gates. We opened the gates for them once, a few months ago if I recall right, and they messed up our country so much and they killed several of our soldiers. They actually just murdered a few Egyptian soldiers at the gate yesterday or before, so yes those people are totally crazy. I'm only really sad for the children who don't have anything to do with this, who are dying because of their stupid families. Why would the families elect Hamaas? The current government? Hamaas is stupid and warlike.

Sorry for my long post and I hope a lot of people understood the situation like how it really is, not just how other countries show them on the news.

I agree - an outstanding, objective post! Well done.

 

[maconvert]

I have often wondered: why has not one caring Arab country offered land for the Palestinians if they care so much??

They have. There are many Palestinians in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, etc..
You'll even meet some Saudi citizens that are originally of Palestinian descent that went there after the first war.

But these countries don't have the resources to accept such large amounts of refugees. A lack of willingness to accept more Palestinians is probably because of lack of resources. So I don't think it's very fair to bring that up.

 

[Kash]

I'm fairly certain the oil producing countries of the Middle East don't have a problem with a lack of resources.

 

[schweb]

I'm fairly certain the oil producing countries of the Middle East don't have a problem with a lack of resources.

+1 on that.

Most of those countries have a problem with corruption, not lack of resources considering the billions of dollars of wealth transfered almost daily from the west to those very countries.

It's easier to allow extremists free reign in order to have the people focus their anger elsewhere than to have their own government fix things.

 

[maconvert]

I'm fairly certain the oil producing countries of the Middle East don't have a problem with a lack of resources.

I was talking about the Middle Eastern countries neighboring Palestine, like Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt, not the countries of the Persian Gulf.

 

[Kash]

+1 on that.

Most of those countries have a problem with corruption, not lack of resources considering the billions of dollars of wealth transfered almost daily from the west to those very countries.

It's easier to allow extremists free reign in order to have the people focus their anger elsewhere than to have their own government fix things.

I agree, having images and video clips of violence in the region is certainly good material to keep people riled up and force their attention away from the corrupt actions of their governments.

 

[XJ-linux]

No idea to the validity of the following I received via email, but it seemed to sum things up kind of cleverly...

An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred at the U.N. and made the world community smile. A representative from Israel began: "Before beginning my talk I want to tell you something about Moses. When he struck the rock and it brought forth water, he thought, 'What a good opportunity to have a bath!' He removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water. When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished. A Palestinian had stolen them."
The Palestinian representative jumped up furiously and shouted, "What are you talking about? The Palestinians weren't there then."
The Israeli representative smiled and said "And now that I have made that clear, I will begin my speech."

 

[Kash]

Haha, that was funny

 

[maconvert]

+1 on that.

Most of those countries have a problem with corruption, not lack of resources considering the billions of dollars of wealth transfered almost daily from the west to those very countries.

It's easier to allow extremists free reign in order to have the people focus their anger elsewhere than to have their own government fix things.

Of course these countries have huge problems with corruption. The leaders are filthy rich, their children are our fellow students at Georgetown and Harvard, and the people are poor.
But guess who installs these leaders? USA...
These corrupt regimes are fully supported by us. They are puppets of the West. We give them money knowing it's not going to the people.
I'm not a fan of either Hamas or Hezbollah, but both of these groups support social justice. They build hospitals, schools, give charity etc. So it's a problem when you have these groups that are for social justice, but the US supported official leaders are corrupt.
So people focusing their anger elsewhere is just as justified as focusing their anger at their own governments although I don't even believe that happens.
How many Egyptians are trying to rise up because the Egyptian government won't open the "ma3bar rafa7" for the Palestinians?

 

[eliehass]

Of course these countries have huge problems with corruption. The leaders are filthy rich, their children are our fellow students at Georgetown and Harvard, and the people are poor.
But guess who installs these leaders? USA...
These corrupt regimes are fully supported by us. They are puppets of the West. We give them money knowing it's not going to the people.
I'm not a fan of either Hamas or Hezbollah, but both of these groups support social justice. They build hospitals, schools, give charity etc. So it's a problem when you have these groups that are for social justice, but the US supported official leaders are corrupt.
So people focusing their anger elsewhere is just as justified as focusing their anger at their own governments although I don't even believe that happens.
How many Egyptians are trying to rise up because the Egyptian government won't open the "ma3bar rafa7" for the Palestinians?

I wouldn't call what Hamas and Hezbollah do social justice. They support suicide bombers. Regardless of what your opinion is over the Israeli/Palestinian situation, suicide bombing should never be an option. What civilized country got their independence by tactics like that? Calling for the total eradication of the State of Israel does not sound like social justice. And lastly, firing rockets at random into civilian areas is not civil justice. If they would stop firing rockets and stop supporting terrorists, and actually have a real discussion with Israel they might get what they want. Until then you can't say they are anything other than terrorists. You can't expect a country to have rockets fired upon in continually and do nothing, that's simply unreasonable.

 

[Dysfunction]

the problem simply perpetuates itself whenever random killing is considered 'social justice'.

 

[eliehass]

Um, the Palestinians were kicked out of their land. They were forced out of their homes and massacred.
The Gazans do attack Israel or try to attack Israel daily because they are fighting against occupiers, the Israelis. Once upon a time. American citizens were fighting against British occupiers but instead of blowing things up they were throwing tea in the sea. This is what people do when they are being oppressed.
Israel is now massacring the Gazans. It is ridiculous and barbaric.

Just a technical point here, the British were not occupiers. They were actually far far away and we Americans had the land all for ourselves (and the Native Americans). Our problem with the british is that they were forcing enormous taxes on us to pay for the war they had just fought. We believed that these taxes were unreasonable, especially since we had no say in the policy of British government. We therefore chose to be independent. They didn't like that idea very much and sent soldiers to keep us under control. We fought and won our independence.

I just wanted to clarify that.

 

[baggss]

I seem to get a sense that maconvert has some very strong opinions on this subject, stronger than most here, even our one known resident of the immediate geographical area. I'm curious to find out where these particularly strong feelings/emotions come from and why he/she has them. Most of us here are fairly open to different opinions and are able to agree to disagree but this individual seems a bit more involved. Maybe he/she will share his/her reasoning for having such a forceful opinion on this subject. I suspect that his/her background, family, political views or some such may have a bearing. Knowing them might make the impression more clear and might add more meaning to the discussion. Knowledge is understanding.

Please don't interpret that as an attack, it's simply curiosity about one persons staunch opinion.