The New World We Live In

[IWT]

Admins/Mods are completely at liberty to erase this post. My thoughts were that perhaps members may be interested in the way we are expected to address people and issues.

Below are comments taken directly from today's edition of The Daily Telegraph (one of the UK's leading newspapers) and are in the public sector where anyone can read them.

I am not expressing a personal view on these matters; merely passing on what is very much in the public purview.

The phrase “black market” should not be used because it is racist, banking leaders have said.

The guidance suggests replacing “black market” with “illegal market” to avoid racial bias or discrimination.

The cyber security term “black hat”, which refers to an unauthorised user on a network, should be replaced with “unethical”, it adds, while “sanity check” should be replaced by “functional test” in order not to “infer a level of disability”.

The phrase “man in the middle” which indicates a cyber attack, was also thought to be gender biased, to be replaced with “network interception”, says the guidance.

A cyber attack check to see how secure a network is, known as “penetration testing”, should now be called “ethical hacking” or “blue testing”.

It comes after a charity advised doctors to refer to a vagina as a “bonus hole” to avoid upsetting transgender men.

Jo’s Cervical Cancer Trust said “bonus hole” and “front hole” were acceptable alternatives to vagina, a word that could “cause someone to feel hurt or distressed”.

Oxfam also published an inclusive language guide which cautioned staff against using the terms “mother” and “father”.

And in April a judge in North Wales, Mr Justice Eyre, asked jurors whether addressing them as “ladies and gentlemen” was acceptable for fear it may have been too “traditional, offensive or exclusive”.


Ian

 

[Rod]

Wow! Well, I got a laugh out of it, these are indeed strange times.

 

[IWT]

Yes indeed, Rod.

I'm so glad that the Admins/Mods have allowed this post. I wrote PMs to them explaining that I hoped some members would engage with the these and possibly add similar experiences from different parts of the world.

It is becoming difficult to communicate with public services of all sorts without being reminded that you cannot say Sir or Madam or indeed refer to someone or some subject without using the "new" words.

An example here in the UK, is that breastfeeders become chest feeders; other changes include replacing the use of the word "mothers" or “woman” with the phrase “woman or person”, and the term “father” with “parent”, “co-parent” or “second biological parent”, depending on the circumstances.

And maternity Services become perinatal services.

Interesting to hear from others

Ian

 

[Raz0rEdge]

My personal opinion on this as a member of this forum and not staff is that as a society we should continually evaluate norms/traditions/phrases to ensure that it is appropriate, accurate and representative of the times we are living in.

As we continue to evolve, learn and grow, so should the terms/phrases and norms along with us. To that end, I'm totally fine with a set number of things going away and being replaced with newer (hopefully better and more representative) things, but this shouldn't be a blanket goal.

In your example above Ian, things like "black market", "black hat" had nothing to do with race but rather to do with the shady nature of the business and that it was done under the cover of darkness thus the use of the word "black" here.

Within technology, for the longest times connectors were referred to as male and female. For appropriate reasons, female connectors "accepted" male connectors. Does it relay what the intention is? Yes. Should we change it to some other two words that relay the connectivity, sure, but who is really offended by this?

Now one terminology that I tend not to use anymore is one of master-slave. But that terminology accurately represents that is happening. We could potentially use Hub, and Device to represent the two groups, but that's not entirely accurate. In the case of USB, there is a indeed a master device that other connect to and slave devices that can only connect to the master device. This specific terminology isn't hurting/targeting anybody, so I think it isn't worth trying to change it to something else.

The whole "woke" culture (especially in the US) has chosen to go with the blanket approach of everything has to change regardless of what the intention of the being changed is. I think that's extremely dangerous and even more so when it's tied up with political affiliations..

 

[georsmith]

The word master refers to one who dominates, and slave to one who dominates. they convey concepts that will never disappear. and should continue to be useful words that convey meanings that will always exist. In the inanimate world they are immediately expressive of a concept. Should we continue to dominate fellow humans? Definitely not, but the words and concepts will always help to convey meanings

 

[Slydude]

I'm all in favor of being responsive to changing social norms but I see a couple of problems with the way many people react to things today.

1. Many people are either incapable of taking things within any kind of context at all. The use of the term master/slave is an example. In the historical context, it might well be discussing human bondage at various times in history. In the technical world, the meaning is entirely different. Many people seem to be unwilling/unable to consider context which is vital to determine the intended meaning.

2. Many people are unwilling to give someone else the "benefit of the doubt' when deciding whether an offense is intended. The discussion starts from the standpoint that everyone should immediately see why a given term is offensive.

3. The assumption often seems to be that if one member of a group is offended the entire group must be offended by the same thing. An example of this would be the name/mascot for the Washington NFL football team. News reports of the controversy almost never discussed the fact that many Native Americans were not paying attention to this issue because they were focused on other forms of discrimination that were more pressing.

I think a well-known columnist has recently written some thoughts that might be relevant to our discussion. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[tilt]

The phrase “black market” should not be used because it is racist, banking leaders have said.

The guidance suggests replacing “black market” with “illegal market” to avoid racial bias or discrimination.

Wouldn't it be simpler to change how Black people are referred to rather than changing multiple other terms? Easier to change one than change many, no? Maybe go back to using the proper scientific/biological/ethnic terms such as, say, negro? Then the world can say Black for other things without being scolded for it?

 

[Slydude]

Wouldn't it be simpler to change how Black people are referred to rather than changing multiple other terms? Easier to change one than change many, no? Maybe go back to using the proper scientific/biological/ethnic terms such as, say, negro? Then the world can say Black for other things without being scolded for it?

It may be simpler but I don't think that will happen soon. The reasons it won't happen illustrate what I mentioned in my previous post.

There was a period of time in the not-too-distant past when using terms such as "black market" would not have been taken as racist. That may still be the case but there is a large, and somewhat more vocal group of people who will brand anyone using such terms as racist without regard for the intent/context behind the term.

In many parts of the world, it might be possible to use the word "negro" in the context you are using it. In Spanish, for example, that word is simply the word used for almost anything black. It has no racial connotations whatsoever. In the US that same term has racial/discriminatory overtones dating back to the slavery period. I don't think too many people are going to give the benefit of the doubt on that one.

 

[pm-r]

My thoughts were that perhaps members may be interested in the way we are expected to address people and issues.

Below are comments taken directly from today's edition of The Daily Telegraph (one of the UK's leading newspapers) and are in the public sector where anyone can read them.

Well done Ian, I think you have done the forums well and added a new entertaining subject thread that can match the Joke of The Day thread.


Maybe now that the King is back at the head for many, we could get back to using appropriate words that males often use and keep alive the King's English with the appropriate distinctive descriptive words that have been used throughout the years.



- Patrick
=======

 

[krs]

Wow! Well, I got a laugh out of it, these are indeed strange times.

The original post should have been in the "Joke of the Day" section.

 

[krs]

The phrase “black market” should not be used because it is racist, banking leaders have said.

Why?
There are no more "black" people - at least in the US.
Those are now "People of Colour"

A cyber attack check to see how secure a network is, known as “penetration testing”, should now be called “ethical hacking” or “blue testing”.

"Blue Testing?"
The Smurfs won't be happy with that!

It comes after a charity advised doctors to refer to a vagina as a “bonus hole” to avoid upsetting transgender men.

Jo’s Cervical Cancer Trust said “bonus hole” and “front hole” were acceptable alternatives to vagina.......

Oh Boy - I think these suggestions are terrible.

I think people are going overboard with these issues and suggestions.

 

[Slydude]

Why?
There are no more "black" people - at least in the US.
Those are now "People of Colour"

"Blue Testing?"
The Smurfs won't be happy with that!


Oh Boy - I think these suggestions are terrible.

I think people are going overboard with these issues and suggestions.

All I've got to say is if the best alternative someone can come up with is "bonus hole" that suggests to me that they should go back to the study group and try again.

No one will pay attention to what the Smurfs think until a handful of Twitter warriors convince the world that there are millions of smurfs offended by the term.

 

[pm-r]

until a handful of Twitter warriors convince the world that there are millions of smurfs offended by the term.

Well Sly, I guess in true reality, there will no longer be any "Twitter warriors", and henceforth they will be known as "X Warriors". ;-) Or is that going to be as offensive as well as all the other new replacement descriptive names and phrases???




- Patrick
=======

 

[Rod]

My biggest problem is knowing when and when not to call someone "black" when it's obviously their most distinguishing feature. In some cases it's okay, in others it's not. To me it's like saying blue eyes or blond hair. I don't attach any negative connotations to the word.

 

[tilt]

To me it's like saying blue eyes or blond hair.

Ohhhhhhh!!!!!! How offensive!!!!!!!!!!! Where are my pearls, I need to clutch them

 

[IWT]

I read this morning that a ladies' group are "campaigning" to have the term "Holiday" be redefined particularly in respect of "out of office" messages and that the term "Annual Holidays" should be called "Annual Leave".

Even then, they point out: "any woman knows that Annual Leave is very definitely not a Holiday". In support of this statement, they set out examples:

One lady said that she took "Annual Leave" days when childcare had fallen through; when domestic concerns have needed attention; when taking elderly relatives to hospital appointments. None of these could be regarded as a "holiday".

So what word or phrase would you suggest as a substitute for Annual Leave or Holidays?

It is noteworthy that no mention was made regarding males in this context.

Ian