Self Defense?

[ToddG]

I think you are all scaring each other! What are the chances (or risks as we say here in Sweden) of any of this happening? For example getting kidnapped in the trunk of a car? I guess you have better chances at the lottery!

I've been driving a car for 20 years, never been in a crash. I still wear my seat belt every time I get in a car and insist everyone else in the car does, too.

According to the 2005 Swedish crime statistics, there were over 76,000 violent crimes in Sweden that year (846 per 100,000 of population, up 8% from the previous year). Sweden doesn't categorize rapes under that heading, there were 3,787 of those, up 44% from the 2004. Nor does it include robbery, of which there were 9,398 (up 9%).

So in 2005, one out of every 100 Swedes was the victim of a crime of violence. If you know where I can get those odds for the lottery, please drop me a PM. :ninja:

Don't misunderstand, I'm not suggesting that Sweden is a dangerous place to be. But just look at the recent shooting here at Virginia Tech. All people could say was, "I never thought something like that would happen!" That's the most common response from victims of violent crime, "I never thought it would happen to me."

 

[Sgt Beavis]

When I was living in Virginia, I got my CHL and started carrying. Three months later in Old Town Alexandria, a fellow tried to mug my wife and I.

I didn't shoot him, I didn't get him arrested either, but he didn't get anything from me. It only took one flash of my Beretta 9mm to send him running.

That was almost 10 years ago. Since then, I've moved to Texas and I have a CHL here as well. I have never needed to unholster my weapon except for that one day and when I go to the firing range.

Every once in a while I hear a story on the local news about a car jacking, road rage, or some other insanity and I wonder if the victim would be living right now if they had a pistol of their own AND proper training.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

Don't misunderstand, I'm not suggesting that Sweden is a dangerous place to be. But just look at the recent shooting here at Virginia Tech. All people could say was, "I never thought something like that would happen!" That's the most common response from victims of violent crime, "I never thought it would happen to me."

After the VT massacre, I've heard numerous people come forward for new gun control laws. Yet, this murderous kid broke several laws.

I can't help but wonder what the outcome would have been if one of his victims had their own pistol.

 

[DistantHoller]

Do you really think students should be armed while in class... ?

Don't you think it´s a better idea to have stricter laws where a young man with mental problems just can't go and buy himself a powerful weapon on a whim?

This incident could have been avoided.

Give it some tought....

 

[DistantHoller]

So in 2005, one out of every 100 Swedes was the victim of a crime of violence. If you know where I can get those odds for the lottery, please drop me a PM. :ninja:

The odds where for being abducted in the trunk of a car

 

[ToddG]

Do you really think students should be armed while in class... ?

It's been legal in Utah for years. They've experienced zero school shootings.

Don't you think it´s a better idea to have stricter laws where a young man with mental problems just can't go and buy himself a powerful weapon on a whim?

I have no problem with this whatsoever.

Here's what I need you to do for me, though. Create a simple test that identifies these people in advance. The stupid "experts" and "PhD's" on television today all say it's too hard to predict which students will crack and become violent. But apparently, you know something they don't. So yes, on behalf of all Americans I'm thanking you in advance for the "insane violence predictor" you've invented. When can you begin deliveries?

What American isn't going to do is restrict the rights of 300 million people because of the insane criminal acts of one.

Statictics is always just statistics... for example in some regions a husband is "entitled" to rape his wife (some states in the u.s. too, right?) so that would show up as lesser rape victims for those regions.

That's not true anywhere in the U.S. that I'm aware of. Is it true in Sweden? If not, this is just a red herring. Saying "statistics is statistics" makes absolutely no sense. You suggested in your post that crime isn't something to be worried about, that the odds of it happening were slim. I demonstrated what the odds are in your country, according to your government's officials. That's all.

Anyway, send me a PM when you get the mind-reader thing done. I'd like to buy one.

 

[Amen-Moses]

Here's what I need you to do for me, though. Create a simple test that identifies these people in advance. The stupid "experts" and "PhD's" on television today all say it's too hard to predict which students will crack and become violent. But apparently, you know something they don't. So yes, on behalf of all Americans I'm thanking you in advance for the "insane violence predictor" you've invented. When can you begin deliveries?

From personal experience it's an easy call, "Do you want to take this Desert Eagle down the range to see what it can do?" if the answer is yes then you've got a potential loony on your hands and he/she should be banned from ever owning a firearm.

If the answer is "No way, *** do I need that for?" then you may just have found a sane person.

To discover if the potential loony is certifiable just ask if they would like to try out an AK47 or Uzi.

Amen-Moses

 

[baggss]

I can't decide if your being sarcastic or not in that post...

 

[ToddG]

So what you're saying is anyone who might ever want to try shooting a Desert Eagle or AK47 or Uzi is no better than the deranged killer who murdered 32 innocent people earlier this week.

Interesting.

 

[baggss]

I guess I am a deranged killer then. I've shot an AK-47 AND an Uzi and they were fun, I would do it again if I had the chance. I wouldn't ever have a reason to own one, but they were fun. My Cousin, who owns the UZI and the AK-47, is in his 50s. He has not gone mad and killed people yet, but he's relatively young so there is still time.

 

[RiDE]

From personal experience it's an easy call, "Do you want to take this Desert Eagle down the range to see what it can do?" if the answer is yes then you've got a potential loony on your hands and he/she should be banned from ever owning a firearm.

If the answer is "No way, *** do I need that for?" then you may just have found a sane person.

To discover if the potential loony is certifiable just ask if they would like to try out an AK47 or Uzi.

Amen-Moses

Your total lack of insight is overtly apparent. You've been brain washed by the media to believe that buzz words like "Uzi" and "AK47" are dangerous...

 

[Amen-Moses]

So what you're saying is anyone who might ever want to try shooting a Desert Eagle or AK47 or Uzi is no better than the deranged killer who murdered 32 innocent people earlier this week.

Personally I don't think anyone who enjoys firing off a few shots just for the **** of it is better or worse than anyone else who does the same.

The "deranged killer" you refer to appears from the press so far to be very similar to say Quentin Tarantino, in fact given slightly different circumstances he could have been the next great film producer rather than a "deranged killer".

Would I trust QT with a firearm, No!

Incidentally I chose those particular fireamr purely because they are poser weapons, as is the 9mm the "deranged killer" chose. Anyone who seriously understands his weaponry would chose something far more efficient and clinical.

Heck, I am a fully trained firearms expert and I wouldn't trust myself to carry one so how in **** would you expect me to trust someone else to do so?

Amen-Moses

 

[Amen-Moses]

Your total lack of insight is overtly apparent. You've been brain washed by the media to believe that buzz words like "Uzi" and "AK47" are dangerous...

I've actually stripped both down and had the opportunity to fire them, I declined the offer as both are crap firearms and it would be a waste of my time frankly. The Desert Eagle is a fabulous poser weapon but darn near useless as a functional one, too heavy and hard to aim for any serious work.

Give me an SLR or RE303 any day!

Amen-Moses

 

[ToddG]

Personally I don't think anyone who enjoys firing off a few shots just for the **** of it is better or worse than anyone else who does the same.

So it's not just your Mac that thinks in binary. Interesting.

For the record, I find it incredibly offensive that you've just likened every single gun owner at M-F.com to a murderer.

Incidentally I chose those particular fireamr purely because they are poser weapons, as is the 9mm the "deranged killer" chose. Anyone who seriously understands his weaponry would chose something far more efficient and clinical.

Poser weapons?

AK-47, most prolific assault rifle in the world and the primary small arm of most of the major militaries on the planet (including all of the former Soviet states and China).

Uzi, not only once a standard of the Israeli military but also the United States Secret Service and others.

Glock 19 (the pistol the VT killer used), used by, among others, the New York City Police Department, largest law enforcement agency in the United States.

Heck, I am a fully trained firearms expert and I wouldn't trust myself to carry one so how in **** would you expect me to trust someone else to do so?

"Expert" by what definition?

 

[DistantHoller]

Todd,

Perhaps the best solution would be for the goverment to hand out a personal Uzi/AK/Magnum (personal choice) to everyone? It would create the perfect world don´t you think?

Since every criminal and loon already have them it´s only logical that the goverment arms every sane person!

Would that not be great?



Here in Sweden, you can get a license (not easy) for a gun/pistol/hunting weapon (we don't consider AK-47s to be hunting weapons). You can only use the weapons at a shooting range or during hunting season in a controlled manner, when you are transporting the weapon to and from these activities it must not be armed. With these laws, few people own guns (even the criminals have troule obtaining them) . So if I suddenly get a mental illness and consider the rest of the world evil, I have a pretty hard time finding a gun. In Virginia, I could just go to a shop and buy one.

 

[baggss]

In some US states a license is required to own a gun. In many US states a background check and a waiting period are required before you can purchase a gun.

I'm sorry if you don't agree with the system in the US DistantHoller, but it is what it is and is unlikely to change anytime soon. I agree the the AK-47 is NOT a hunting rifle and I agree with the ban on assault weapons. If someone wants to go through the hoops to get one legally however, more power to them and there should be a route to do so. Fortunately for all of us you are way over there and we are way over here so you are unlikely to be caught by any stray crossfire. If you get hit, it means someone was aiming for you.

 

[RiDE]

Here in Sweden, you can get a license (not easy) for a gun/pistol/hunting weapon (we don't consider AK-47s to be hunting weapons). You can only use the weapons at a shooting range or during hunting season in a controlled manner, when you are transporting the weapon to and from these activities it must not be armed. With these laws, few people own guns (even the criminals have troule obtaining them) . So if I suddenly get a mental illness and consider the rest of the world evil, I have a pretty hard time finding a gun. In Virginia, I could just go to a shop and buy one.

You obviously do not have a knowledge of US laws and the US Constitution.

You say:

"You can only use the weapons at a shooting range or during hunting season in a controlled manner..."

Are you under the impression that in the US people can legally go out into the street and start firing your guns??? In order to fire a gun legally, I must go to a shooting range, or my property out in the country, even then it must be FAR FAR away from any buildings, roads, etc... We too can only hunt during hunting season.

(we don't consider AK-47s to be hunting weapons)

No, it's not a proficient hunting rifle... OUR 2nd Amendment rights have nothing whatsoever to do with hunting.

Not exactly sure what you meant by:

"when you are transporting the weapon to and from these activities it must not be armed."

But if you meant they can not be loaded... It is no different here (unless you have a carry permit).

You should attempt to gain a greater knowledge of the subject matter PRIOR to offering your opinions on what laws need to be changed in a country you don't even reside in.

 

[D3v1L80Y]

How is it that a thread asking:

Just curious if anyone has had to actually "defend" themselves or homes in situations?

...turn into yet another debate about firearms and gun control? That thread was not only debated at length and subsequently closed, but has very little relevance to the simple "yes" or "no" question of the OP.
If you have a personal story of when you had to defend yourself, then post it and keep the thread on topic.
If you don't, then please refrain from derailing the thread with an off-topic debate or this thread becomes locked as well.

 

[DistantHoller]

You should attempt to gain a greater knowledge of the subject matter PRIOR to offering your opinions on what laws need to be changed in a country you don't even reside in.

I like to have opinions on lots of things, even those I don´t have a degree in.

I understand that you are not allowed to fire your guns anywhere you please, what I meant is that here in Sweden you are not allowed to "carry" your weapon for self-defense, wich seem a lot more common in your country.

 

[D3v1L80Y]

Since this has continued on with off-topic since my warning, the thread is now being closed.