MacBook Pro M2 doesn't power correctly 3 HDD USB-3

[krs]

I know that 3.5" HDDs are powered by the socket, but 2.5" always by the USB port, certainly that 5TB I mentioned above is a bit more power hungry than the others, but it should respect the industry standards.

What "Industry Standards"?
What makes you think the Mac doesn't meet its specs
When you connect three drives to a non-powered hub, the power for all three drives is being drawn from the single port on the Mac the hub is connected to

Again, I can use 2 of these HDDs at the same time, it seems there is no issue, but 3 is a game over and the laptop crashes after a few nice grinds

What "grinds? The Mac or the attached drives?
Nothing should be grinding

I'm obviously afraid even with 2 now, and buying an external docking station pushes me to buy also an UPS, so, something like 350-400 pounds...

Why do you think you need a UPS?
Is your mains power that unreliable?

 

[Gnomac43]

The specs of the adapter you are using shows Power Delivery as a dash, ie none/not specified.
You need at least a powered adapter. but even then....it sounds as if you are trying to connect three 2.5 inch USB powered spinner plus a 5 TB drive and somehow get the Mac to power all of those.
I'm surprised that the Mac "crashes" - what exactly do you mean by that?
Do you get a Kernel panic or does the Mac just shut down?
When I connect a USB device that draws more power than the Mac can veliver, I get a message on the screen and that USB port on the Mac turns off, but the Mac does not crash.

I have 3x 5TB HDDs, and I used that UGreen adapter plus this Anker https://www.anker.com/products/a8346?ref=naviMenu&discount=WSPEDYZIDO&variant=37438455480470 .

It can't be the UGreen adapter do not support 3 devices.
It's true that the crash happened only with 3x HDDs on the UGreen, but when I put one of them in the Anker adapter, it didn't see the disk at all from the OS, it was just powered ON, very weird...
I've got a Kernel Panic on the disk image component, sent it to Apple but nothing will change...

 

[Gnomac43]

What "Industry Standards"?
What makes you think the Mac doesn't meet its specs
When you connect three drives to a non-powered hub, the power for all three drives is being drawn from the single port on the Mac the hub is connected to

What "grinds? The Mac or the attached drives?
Nothing should be grinding


Why do you think you need a UPS?
Is your mains power that unreliable?

I repeat what I told you in response to the previous message, it doesn't handle 3 HDDs from that port, interestingly, not immediately, but after a while, maybe at half way with 100GB copy, kind of a no-sense.
I understand you, but it there was a complete power delivery failure, it would have failed right away, not after 20-30 minutes of copy-writing, when one HDD was idle just spinning.

The HDDs were grinding, all of them, one by one, then the kernel panic.
I've read online that can be due to insufficient power delivery, but anyway, it crashes only with that workload and number of disks attached in the same adapter.

I need an UPS to avoid data corruption, that's it, you can easily corrupt the entire disk with a power cut off.

 

[Jimmysb]

I have 3x 5TB HDDs, and I used that UGreen adapter plus this Anker https://www.anker.com/products/a8346?ref=naviMenu&discount=WSPEDYZIDO&variant=37438455480470 .

It can't be the UGreen adapter do not support 3 devices.
It's true that the crash happened only with 3x HDDs on the UGreen, but when I put one of them in the Anker adapter, it didn't see the disk at all from the OS, it was just powered ON, very weird...
I've got a Kernel Panic on the disk image component, sent it to Apple but nothing will change...

Your Mac power supply is plugged into the adapter and the adapter plugged in to the Mac as per he instructions.

 

[Slydude]

Maybe I'm missing something so I'll ask to be sure. Are you running two hubs with one connected to the computer and one chained off of the other hub? I know that theoretically that's supposed to work with USB but I have never tried that to see how reliable that setup is when powering high-drain devices like rotating HDDs.

 

[Gnomac43]

Your Mac power supply is plugged into the adapter and the adapter plugged in to the Mac as per he instructions.

Hi, I'm not sure if this is an answer or a question, but I didn't plug in the power cable to the adapter, that goes straight into the MacBook power plug. (only the Anker has this feature)
So, in any test, I never used any of the adapters as a power passthrough.

 

[Gnomac43]

Maybe I'm missing something so I'll ask to be sure. Are you running two hubs with one connected to the computer and one chained off of the other hub? I know that theoretically that's supposed to work with USB but I have never tried that to see how reliable that setup is when powering high-drain devices like rotating HDDs.

No, it's in this way:
1. Power socket -> Apple PSU -> MacBook (Magsafe or whatever is the name of it)
2. UGreeen (left port)
3. Anker (right port)
Everyone its own dedicated connection.

I don't know if it made any difference, so I tried to divide the Thunderbolt ports, I have one left on the left side.

 

[MacInWin]

So, in any test, I never used any of the adapters as a power passthrough.

Why not? The Anker is designed as a pass-through, and the benefit is it powers the drives as well, unburdening the Mac port. You have TOO MANY things drawing power from ONE port on the Mac, as has been stated before. There are current limits on USB ports, which is why heavy draw devices like spinner drives need to be powered from some other source. I would suggest you put the power from the Apple PSU to the Anker, then attach the spinners to the Anker. If you need a second set of ports, move the UGreen to the Anker as well (Yes, you can daisy chain, within limits). That way the external power is going through both the Anker and the UGreen (within limits). One thing to be aware of is that the UGreen should not have a lot of devices attached to it as it is getting the power from just ONE port on the Anker, and the current limits will apply to that one port. So keep as many of the spinners in the Anker as you can.

 

[Jimmysb]

Hi, I'm not sure if this is an answer or a question, but I didn't plug in the power cable to the adapter, that goes straight into the MacBook power plug. (only the Anker has this feature)
So, in any test, I never used any of the adapters as a power passthrough.

If you are NOT connecting the power through the hub as per the instructions, then this could form part of your problem.

This is from the link YOU provided:

• The Anker Advantage: Join the 65 million+ powered by our leading technology.
• Massive Expansion: Get way more out of your laptop’s USB-C port, with 4K@30Hz HDMI, SD card connectivity, USB-A / USB-C data ports, as well as high-speed pass-through charging with Power Delivery.
• Powerful Pass-Through Charging: Compatible with USB-C Power Delivery to provide high-speed pass-through charging to your laptop at up to 85W.
• High-Speed, High-Def: USB-C and USB-A data ports provide file transfer at speeds up to 5 Gbps, while an HDMI port supports media display at resolutions up to 4K@30Hz.
• What You Get: Anker 341 USB-C Hub (7-in-1) / Premium 7-in-1 USB-C Hub, travel pouch, welcome, guide, worry-free 18-month warranty, and friendly customer service.

 

[krs]

Why not? The Anker is designed as a pass-through, and the benefit is it powers the drives as well, unburdening the Mac port. You have TOO MANY things drawing power from ONE port on the Mac, as has been stated before. There are current limits on USB ports, which is why heavy draw devices like spinner drives need to be powered from some other source. I would suggest you put the power from the Apple PSU to the Anker, then attach the spinners to the Anker. If you need a second set of ports, move the UGreen to the Anker as well (Yes, you can daisy chain, within limits). That way the external power is going through both the Anker and the UGreen (within limits). One thing to be aware of is that the UGreen should not have a lot of devices attached to it as it is getting the power from just ONE port on the Anker, and the current limits will apply to that one port. So keep as many of the spinners in the Anker as you can.

This is all fine and good, but it doesn't address the OP's concern about mains power glitches affecting the hard drives and possible data corruption.
That's where the requirement for a UPS comes in that was mentioned several times.
If the drives are powered from the Mac, mains power glitches are no longer an issue.

 

[krs]

I repeat what I told you in response to the previous message, it doesn't handle 3 HDDs from that port, interestingly, not immediately, but after a while, maybe at half way with 100GB copy, kind of a no-sense.
I understand you, but it there was a complete power delivery failure, it would have failed right away, not after 20-30 minutes of copy-writing, when one HDD was idle just spinning.

Not necessarily.
Current draw can easily go up when a drive gets hot for instance.
I just measured the current draw of a 4 TB usb powered 2.5 inch drive (don't have a 5 TB pne).
the draw varies between 400 and 850ma.
Assuming a 5 TB drive doesn't require more power, three of thos would be well over what a non-powered hub is expected to deliver.
Depending how the OP uses the three attached 5 TB drives and what file transfers are required at any one time, perhaps one solution would be to go back to the original setup with the Mac powering the drives via a hub, but use a hub where each USB port can be switched on and off individually. Then just connect the drive (s) as required.

 

[Gnomac43]

Thanks everyone.

Funny things happen with external HDDs and adapters, so I'll switch to a NAS or fully cloud (difficult with high volume of data).
Today, for example, I unplugged the disk (yes, by mistake), and the laptop crashed right away.
The log says that one of the cores crashed and then the kernel went in panic, no-sense...
Coincidence? It was at the same time, despite the log doesn't hint to anything as such...
I really can't trust any external HDD, unless for Time Machine.

The problem will be also the UPS, and I hope that it takes down the NAS in standby when the power goes down, because no UPS can stand for too long...

 

[MacInWin]

The log says that one of the cores crashed and then the kernel went in panic, no-sense..

Can you post the crash log here? Maybe someone can see something in it for you.

And why do you think a TM drive will do anything differently? It's a drive, after all, and it's external, so...

Why the focus on a UPS? Is your power that unreliable? I think that was asked a bit ago, but I don't see any response.

Your situation, as you have described it, is totally bizarre. I've accidently unplugged the cable from my MBP to my hub that supports seven drives and had all seven show up as a warning on the desktop, but the MBP never crashed. It just complained.

Have you tried Safe Mode? That would allow you to do some experimentation to see if it's something you have installed on your Mac that is causing the issue.

 

[krs]

Your situation, as you have described it, is totally bizarre. I've accidently unplugged the cable from my MBP to my hub that supports seven drives and had all seven show up as a warning on the desktop, but the MBP never crashed. It just complained.

Yes, same here.
If I unplug an external drive accidentally, all I get is a warning message.
None of the various Macs in the family have seen a kernel panic for years.
something strange seems to be going on here.

 

[Gnomac43]

Can you post the crash log here? Maybe someone can see something in it for you.

And why do you think a TM drive will do anything differently? It's a drive, after all, and it's external, so...

Why the focus on a UPS? Is your power that unreliable? I think that was asked a bit ago, but I don't see any response.

Your situation, as you have described it, is totally bizarre. I've accidently unplugged the cable from my MBP to my hub that supports seven drives and had all seven show up as a warning on the desktop, but the MBP never crashed. It just complained.

Have you tried Safe Mode? That would allow you to do some experimentation to see if it's something you have installed on your Mac that is causing the issue.

I'm using only iStats and DriveDx that could interfere here, but not enough to send the Kernel in panic...
So far, I never disconnected a drive without ejecting, so the issue may have been always there and it may depend also from the adapter, but it would ultimately be a kernel bug.
I didn't receive a message from the OS, it crashed after a few seconds, maybe 10, maybe 20, not sure precisely, but it was close...
I know it's weird, but that's what happened.

This is the interesting part of the crash dump:

CORE 0: PC=0xfffffe001617235c, LR=0xfffffe001617235c, FP=0xfffffe30085bbef0
CORE 1: PC=0xfffffe001617235c, LR=0xfffffe001617235c, FP=0xfffffe3007977ef0
CORE 2: PC=0xfffffe00162e8488, LR=0xfffffe00162e89cc, FP=0xfffffe3008c5f9e0
CORE 3: PC=0xfffffe001617235c, LR=0xfffffe001617235c, FP=0xfffffe3008a37ef0
CORE 4 is the one that panicked. Check the full backtrace for details.
CORE 5: PC=0xfffffe0016151938, LR=0xfffffe001615109c, FP=0xfffffe3008a072d0
CORE 6: PC=0xfffffe0016261588, LR=0xfffffe001626f3bc, FP=0xfffffe3008917e80
CORE 7: PC=0xfffffe001617235c, LR=0xfffffe001617235c, FP=0xfffffe3007917ef0
CORE 8: PC=0xfffffe001617235c, LR=0xfffffe001617235c, FP=0xfffffe30088ffef0
CORE 9: PC=0xfffffe001626ed28, LR=0xfffffe0016172368, FP=0xfffffe300848fe80
Compressor Info: 0% of compressed pages limit (OK) and 0% of segments limit (OK) with 0 swapfiles and OK swap space
Panicked task 0xfffffe1b30799e08: 4711 pages, 6 threads: pid 14519: Disk Utility
Panicked thread: 0xfffffe1ffe47b000, backtrace: 0xfffffe3007a374d0, tid: 750685
          lr: 0xfffffe001613bc0c  fp: 0xfffffe3007a37550
          lr: 0xfffffe0016279ff0  fp: 0xfffffe3007a37570
          lr: 0xfffffe001626b89c  fp: 0xfffffe3007a375e0
          lr: 0xfffffe001626a0ac  fp: 0xfffffe3007a376a0
          lr: 0xfffffe00160ef784  fp: 0xfffffe3007a376b0
          lr: 0xfffffe001613b508  fp: 0xfffffe3007a37a60
          lr: 0xfffffe00168a096c  fp: 0xfffffe3007a37a80
          lr: 0xfffffe0016223dac  fp: 0xfffffe3007a37b00
          lr: 0xfffffe00161d6438  fp: 0xfffffe3007a37db0
          lr: 0xfffffe001626ad28  fp: 0xfffffe3007a37e50
          lr: 0xfffffe001626a438  fp: 0xfffffe3007a37f10
          lr: 0xfffffe00160ef784  fp: 0xfffffe3007a37f20


last started kext at 365320923374: com.apple.filesystems.exfat    1.4 (addr 0xfffffe001563ff60, size 6208)
loaded kexts:
Here it starts all the kext list
...
...

The UPS is necessary, 1-3 times a year it happens that I lose power and that's enough to corrupt my file system, then what? Not necessarily I'll be able to recover data from a disk, unless I was not writing into it.
The problem with it is the stand-by function, it must send it or the HDDs may drain all the battery. With a NAS that has a Motherboard that should work, but with disks, I don't think that there is a way without an intermediary like an OS or Motherboard.
I don't recall to have experienced more than 4h electrical downtime, but it may always happen...

I could try the safe mode...

 

[MacInWin]

but it would ultimately be a kernel bug.

Not likely, but you didn't post the whole crash report, so who knows?

Good luck with it.

 

[ferrarr]

Give EtreCheck a run, EtreCheck.