Going to give Apple a try. What to buy?

[MacInWin]

No, it was deliberate. I have actually removed the optical drive from my MBP, replaced the HD with an SSD and moved the HD to the optical bay. The day of the CD/DVD for software is ending, if not ended. I get all my software by download these days. And with the growth in size of flash drives, I can put more on a stick than can be put on a disk, so I don't need to burn any disks, either. So Apple is once again leading the pack in the thoughtful and deliberate elimination of an obsolete technology from the base machine design. If you want an optical disk, there are plenty of external enclosures for you to carry around. As for USB ports, get a small hub to add more. I have a four-port hub that is roughly 1.5" by 1.5" and about 0.5 thick that does me very well for the odd occasion where I need more than the MBP has on it.

 

[mdurkin]

I know that's not what you meant, but I do think it made my point.

It's nice to have the option to remove an optical drive and replace it with something else. I don't have that option. Now, in defense of Apple, I knew that when I bought the device and I bought it anyway.

It's not the end of the world, but it does mean that I need another device.

 

[Doug b]

No, it was deliberate. I have actually removed the optical drive from my MBP, replaced the HD with an SSD and moved the HD to the optical bay. The day of the CD/DVD for software is ending, if not ended. I get all my software by download these days. And with the growth in size of flash drives, I can put more on a stick than can be put on a disk, so I don't need to burn any disks, either. So Apple is once again leading the pack in the thoughtful and deliberate elimination of an obsolete technology from the base machine design. If you want an optical disk, there are plenty of external enclosures for you to carry around. As for USB ports, get a small hub to add more. I have a four-port hub that is roughly 1.5" by 1.5" and about 0.5 thick that does me very well for the odd occasion where I need more than the MBP has on it.

+10

Meant to add these factors into my post, but couldn't have said it any better. I'll just add that: If there's any wonder as to why Apple has so much invested into iTunes, and then you look around at all the other digital download subscriptions out there, it's so easy to see that these things are surely taking over as an industry standard.

Store fronts don't sell nearly as many DVD's as in the past, and if DVD's or Blueray discs are sold, for the most part they are done so online. Between Netflix, Hulu, other streaming services plus all the digital download stores, there won't be a need for such store front services in the near future. Adding software for computers to that list, is of course, better for consumers, as it should drive prices down. I just wish someone would tell that to greedy Microsoft. They still charge just as much for MS Office digitally as they do on disk.

The even crazier thing about purchasing Office in a store, is that it looks like all they're including in the box is a digital download link with a serial key. On top of that, people I've spoken to who buy them, say that they still have to go through several "updates" after it is finished installing?! You'd think that it would be the latest patched version from the get-go? Meh.

Doug

 

[J.Fo]

The even crazier thing about purchasing Office in a store, is that it looks like all they're including in the box is a digital download link with a serial key. On top of that, people I've spoken to who buy them, say that they still have to go through several "updates" after it is finished installing?! You'd think that it would be the latest patched version from the get-go? Meh.

That's the way it was for my mom and dad, who downloaded Office. I can understand that sort of thing if it were a DVD-ROM that had been in the store a while, but we're talking a digital download that can be as up-to-date as can be. It boggles my mind.

 

[mdurkin]

So Apple is once again leading the pack in the thoughtful and deliberate elimination of an obsolete technology from the base machine design. If you want an optical disk, there are plenty of external enclosures for you to carry around. As for USB ports, get a small hub to add more. I have a four-port hub that is roughly 1.5" by 1.5" and about 0.5 thick that does me very well for the odd occasion where I need more than the MBP has on it.

I would agree if they were in fact obsolete. They are not yet obsolete. They are leading the pack in terms on not including it, but not because it's obsolete. While it's true that they are becoming less and less necessary, for many functions, they are still necessary.

I don't like the argument that you can just buy additional hardware and lug that around with you. By the time you add in all the things they removed, you are carrying more weight and much more size than if it was included. If you don't ever need it, no big deal. If you do, maybe a different laptop is the way to go.

 

[MacInWin]

I know that's not what you meant, but I do think it made my point.

It's nice to have the option to remove an optical drive and replace it with something else. I don't have that option. Now, in defense of Apple, I knew that when I bought the device and I bought it anyway.

It's not the end of the world, but it does mean that I need another device.

I did not make your point, in any way. My current configuration is what Apple is now selling with the Fusion Drive, a combination SSD and HD. Mine is not fused, as I don't really want that function, but the fact that I have SSD and HD is just what they are selling now. I removed obsolete technology to get to this configuration. Apple is now no longer putting new buyers in a position to have to remove the obsolete technology. And you don't "need" another device. You may WANT it, but there is no real need for an optical drive today, which was my point.

 

[pigoo3]

I don't like the argument that you can just buy additional hardware and lug that around with you. By the time you add in all the things they removed, you are carrying more weight and much more size than if it was included. .

Why lug around an internal optical drive 100% of the time...when many/most folks use the optical drive less than 1% of the time??

If someone doesn't doesn't like the argument that they can "just buy additional hardware"...and this person needs an optical drive much more than the average person...then this person should simply purchase a notebook computer with a built in optical drive. Problem solved!

- Nick

p.s. Personally I like having the built-in optical drive...and I don't mind carrying it around 100% of the time...even though I only use it less than 0.1% of the time!

If I found the extra weight of an internal optical drive burdensome...I would hit the gym to build up the muscles...rather than "whine" about the extra weight!

 

[mdurkin]

I did not make your point, in any way. My current configuration is what Apple is now selling with the Fusion Drive, a combination SSD and HD. Mine is not fused, as I don't really want that function, but the fact that I have SSD and HD is just what they are selling now. I removed obsolete technology to get to this configuration. Apple is now no longer putting new buyers in a position to have to remove the obsolete technology. And you don't "need" another device. You may WANT it, but there is no real need for an optical drive today, which was my point.

That's very narrow thinking. YOU may not need it, but that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't need it. I guess you could make the argument that no-one needs a computer at all. Really, all we need is food, water, shelter and rest (according to Maslow anyway). You could accurately say that if you need it, you should buy something else, because the rMBP doesn't have it. That is true.

 

[mdurkin]

If someone doesn't doesn't like the argument that they can "just buy additional hardware"...and this person needs an optical drive much more than the average person...then this person should simply purchase a notebook computer with a built in optical drive. Problem solved!

Agreed

 

[MacInWin]

I would agree if they were in fact obsolete. They are not yet obsolete. They are leading the pack in terms on not including it, but not because it's obsolete. While it's true that they are becoming less and less necessary, for many functions, they are still necessary.

I don't like the argument that you can just buy additional hardware and lug that around with you. By the time you add in all the things they removed, you are carrying more weight and much more size than if it was included. If you don't ever need it, no big deal. If you do, maybe a different laptop is the way to go.

Well, let's see. A DVD can hold roughly 4.7 GB, dual layer 8.5 GB. An 8GB flash drive is under $6, smaller and easier to transport than a DVD. You can go up to 128GB in a flash drive for under $100. So I can either carry a laptop with obsolete technology I never use and have to carry DVD's (in their protective cases so that they don't get damaged and made useless) with me to get to my data, or I can carry a laptop without that obsolete technology and a thumb drive with 16 times the storage capacity on my keychain. Today, DVDs are never "necessary." I get movies through Netflix or other streaming, I store my portable data on thumb drives, I download software digitally. In fact, I can't think of any function that makes an optical drive "necessary," unless I'm dumb enough to buy some software from a vendor stuck in the 20th century.

The fact you don't like an argument doesn't make the argument invalid. But I do agree with your statement that "maybe a different laptop is the way to go." Perhaps you should consider that if a DVD drive is that important to you.

 

[mdurkin]

You are looking at it for what you would use a a CD/DVD for, not for what someone else might. Take your flash drive to Red Box and try to watch a movie on it. How many flash drives would you need if all the members of the band wanted you to make a CD of their recording session to give away? Install Cubase from a DVD without a drive.

There are still many uses for them.

I'm just saying that they are not obsolete. I agree, and in fact it was my words, that you may want to consider another device. My original point for this thread was exactly that, you are limited with your hardware choices depending on your needs.

 

[pigoo3]

Hey guys. I think that everyone has clearly stated their positions on what storage technologies they prefer & why.

Why don't we agree that everyone is different...and has thier own reasons for preferring the storage technology/technologies they are advocating.

Thanks,

- Nick

 

[J.Fo]

p.s. Personally I like having the built-in optical drive...and I don't mind carrying it around 100% of the time...even though I only use it less than 0.1% of the time!

Just curious, at which point would you decide it was no longer necessary to have the optical drive? You're hardly using it now. How much less do you have to use it for it to become completely burdensome?

 

[pigoo3]

Just curious, at which point would you decide it was no longer necessary to have the optical drive?

When I decide to throw out my entire extensive collection of:

- music on CD's
- photo collection on CD/DVD's
- movies/video on CD's/DVD's (both homemade and store bought movies)
- Mac OS install disks
- Apple hardware test CD's/DVD's
- personal files that I've backed up on CD/DVD over the years

But guess what...this is not going to happen!

So until the day that I get covered in 6 feet of dirt...i will need an optical drive!.

Can I survive with a notebook computer without an optical drive...sure! And I would be happy to "survive" with an external optical drive when needed.

But if I have the option of an internal optical drive...I certainly do not have a problem "lugging" it around 100% of the time. The reduction in weight & volume of removing the optical drive is not that great of an advancement to me.

To me...the thickness & weight of current notebook computers (with an optical drive) is really not a problem. There was a time when the average 14"-15" notebook computer weighed 7-8 lbs (and close to 2" thick)...so the weight & thickness of current notebook computers in the 4.5 lb range (with an optical drive)...I think is quite an advancement. Further reducing them to 3.0 pounds and less than 1" thick (by removing the optical drive & other advancements)...is nice...but not really an Earth-shattering advancement (to me).

Notebook computers with a 13" or 15" display will always have a fixed footprint. A 13" or 15" display will always be 13" or 15" diagonally...so until some sort of technology is developed that allows a notebook display to be folded or rolled up to reduce it's size when not in use...further reductions in notebook thickness or weight are irrelevant to me.

When this sort of display technology is developed...and if removing the optical drive will facilitate the manufacture of a notebook computer with the footprint of:

- a Mac-Mini
- be only 0.5-1.0 inches thick
- and still have a 13-15" diagonal display

...I'll be more than happy to give up an optical drive.

Of course products like the iPad (tablets)...will continue to advance. And who knows...in 5+ years (or less)...tablets may be total replacements for notebook computers...including smaller footprints due to advancements in display dimensional technology (foldable or otherwise).

- Nick

 

[chas_m]

The only time I *ever* use an optical drive is to:

a. Rip a CD I own into iTunes (and I have plenty I haven't yet done) or
b. Burn a DVD for use with my TV set's DVD player (my TV is old and won't work with Apple TV darn it!)

But I noticed YEARS ago that the only *time* I ever use my optical drive was when I was at home for the above-stated two purposes. Not wanting the optical drive built into my MBP to go bad, I bought an external one (FireWire) and have used it as the primary optical drive ever since.

I understand that some percentage (and by some I mean A TINY NUMBER) of users still have need of an optical drive on some sort of periodic basis, and thus the fact that USB-based optical drives will likely not go completely out of fashion for a while yet (hey you can still buy a floppy drive too) but I think those who like optical drives are overlooking two very important points:

1. Built-in optical drives offer absolutely NO advantage over USB thumb drives "in the field," and thus aren't really needed to be built in. They take FAR longer to create discs, use a variety of proprietary formats that may not work with the recipient's machine, etc. Thumb drives are a VASTLY superior and cheaper solution for "in the field."

2. A built-in optical drive is a MAJOR POINT OF FAILURE. If it goes, you can either ignore it and not use it anymore or you have to disassemble the *entire computer* to repair it, and it's generally VERY EXPENSIVE to fix. A quick search of these very forums will quickly show that having an optical drive die on you (or get jammed, etc) is a MAJOR HEADACHE that is easily avoided with an external optical drive, which can be replaced cheaply should it ever fail.

Thus even though I am one of those people who occasionally need an optical drive, I think the move to take it OUT of being built-in is an *extremely good idea* in light of both superior/cheaper storage options and the significant reduction in weight and risk of mechanical failure. Those of you who like me need an optical drive occasionally may want to consider WHEN and WHERE you use your drive and see if a solution like mine may not make a lot of sense for you.

 

[Doug b]

Hey Nick, I certainly hope for your sake, that you've backed up all of the data from those optical discs to an external drive somewhere? Optical media is made to fail over time, that is certain. Doesn't have to be scratched or anything, either. It's a simple matter of biodegradation.



Doug

 

[pigoo3]

1. Built-in optical drives offer absolutely NO advantage over USB thumb drives "in the field," and thus aren't really needed to be built in. They take FAR longer to create discs, use a variety of proprietary formats that may not work with the recipient's machine, etc. Thumb drives are a VASTLY superior and cheaper solution for "in the field."

Definitely agree. USB thumb drives are definitely much more "friendly" for swapping files & information at home, work, or "in the field".

2. A built-in optical drive is a MAJOR POINT OF FAILURE. If it goes, you can either ignore it and not use it anymore or you have to disassemble the *entire computer* to repair it, and it's generally VERY EXPENSIVE to fix. A quick search of these very forums will quickly show that having an optical drive die on you (or get jammed, etc) is a MAJOR HEADACHE that is easily avoided with an external optical drive, which can be replaced cheaply should it ever fail.

I mostly agree. I'm not sure I would describe slot-loading internal optical drives as a "major point of failure" (in all caps)...since this sort of suggests that almost everyone has had a failure (especially with folks hardly needing to use their optical drives these days).

But I certainly agree that slot-loading optical drives tend to fail much more often (versus tray-loading optical drives)...and have other issues like:

- sometimes not ejecting disks properly
- folks trying to insert "mini-disks" into them
- and folks/children inserting all sorts of foreign objects into the slot!

- Nick

 

[pigoo3]

Hey Nick, I certainly hope for your sake, that you've backed up all of the data from those optical discs to an external drive somewhere? Optical media is made to fail over time, that is certain. Doesn't have to be scratched or anything, either. It's a simple matter of biodegradation.

To be honest Doug...I know that there are folks out there that write articles (and possibly have research to back up what they write) that data stored on optical disks doesn't last forever. But I have literally hundreds of CD's and DVD's that I have "burned" over the years (some of them will be 20 years old soon)...and of course 100's of original software manufacturer CD's...and I have yet to have a failure.

I also have a lot of MO disks (magneto-optical) disks that are also 15-17+ years old...and I have no failures there either.

Finally...the worst long-term storage media of them all...magnetic floppy disks (I have probably close to 1000 of them). Of course lots & lots of folks have written how bad floppy disks are in terms of long term storage.

- I have about 10 sets of Apple OS install floppy disks (some of them from as far back as the late 1980's)
- Original floppy install disks for the original versions of:

* MacWord
* MacWrite
* MacPaint
* MacDraft
* Excel
* etc.​

- and the rest being floppies I've written myself

And again...I cannot remember one problem related to a "biodegrading" issue.

I'm sure all these experts cannot be wrong. But given the number of disks I have...and the number of different formats I have (floppy, MO, CD, DVD) from all my years of Mac-Computing...I have not had an error. I'm sure the day is coming (not an "if" thing but a "when" thing)...we shall see!

- Nick

 

[toolatemac]

I made the switch to a Mac in 2012 and really don't have any compatibility issues at all. I would advise getting Microsoft Office for the Mac. You will be able to do everything you can with a Windows machine. As far as a strictly home computer, the iMac would be my choice (27" model). The retina 15" MBP is nice, but it is not worth the extra $500 you will pay for it. The next question is, 'How much are you willing to pay"?

Have a great day!

 

[Rod]

Funny how these threads evolve isn't it? We forget the original question and end up talking the pros and cons of built in optical drives. That is the idea of course and very interesting too.
But to return to your question. I would go for the biggest iMac you can afford. the more desktop space you have the better. Comparability issues, there are none. You can buy the student edition of Microsoft Office for Mac at a good discount mine came with a free cordless Microsoft mouse which works perfectly with my MacBook Pro. Personally I use Open Office a lot now which is a free fully featured suite of apps just like Word, Excel, PowerPoint etc and you can save in Microsoft format.
As for that old chestnut the built in optical drive, I wouldn't want a computer without one, either laptop or desktop no matter how little you may use it and personally I have never had one break in over 20 years of Mac use. I admit I did buy an external optical drive in order to import my CD music library in AAC format but now it languishes unused in a cupboard.
Lastly the security of a Mac, knowing you can browse, send and receive emails and download content with little or no risk of Malware is worth the cost in itself. Having said that its worth installing a virus scan app to protect your poor (windows user) friends from stuff you might send on.
One final thing. I also used to own a Samsung mob phone and I found an app on line which enabled me to sync Contacts, Music, Photos etc with my MacBook but I can't remember the name, sorry, however it can be done so you can relax on that issue.
One more little thing I tell everybody, look up Mac Keyboard Commands on line and print out the list, it will have explanatory links and believe me one day you will thank me for having it.
Cheers
Rod?