First Mac Advice

[SlickRich]

Hi Guys!

I managed to blow up my main PC a couple of months ago (dont ask how), and I've been looking at getting a replacement.

I've been considering a Mac, I've never had one before but when looking at what I primarily use this PC for, I think a Mac might be suitable (web surfing, music/itunes, and I'd like to start recording music which I hear that garage band is excellent for). I also want something which is pretty stable and is likely to last a while (for these basic purposes, not too bothered about high end gaming and video editing). Also I quite like the idea of getting something a bit different, I've got a couple of old Windows XP and Linux machines (which barely work), I use a Windows 7 on my media centre, and use a Windows Vista machine all day at work, so I like the idea of learning how to use a new OS.

Anyway I've got a monitor, mouse etc. and I'm on a pretty tight budget so I was considering a mac mini. However even these budget line PCs start at about £500 and I was hoping for something about half that.

I've looked on Gumtree, Ebay etc. and found a couple of nice mac minis with G4 processors for around £200, however I have a couple of reservations, which I was wondering if people could advise me on (as I said I have no prior Mac experience other than wiggling the mouse over the pretty icons in an Apple store):-

- I read in the technical specs of Snow Leopard that you can't upgrade to this on a G4 - is this a big deal and are there any significant changes between Snow Leopard and Leopard which I would be missing out on? Is it the same difference in usability between Vista and Windows 7?

- Also this previous point has got me a bit paranoid, would you be able to upgrade to the latest version of Garage Band? and if so, how much would this be likely to cost?

- What is the likelihood of Apple releasing another OS in the near future? Would they be likely to start phasing out support for key applications such as itunes on these older macs?

- The technical specs of about 1.6ghz processor, 1GB ram doesn't look great, since you can just about get phones with this spec now. As I said before I'm not a power user, but I don't want my machine to be really sluggish, would this be likely to cater for my needs?

- Also are there any other key points I should be aware of which I have probably overlooked?

Thanks for all the help in advance ;D

Rich

 

[Collin Bl]

Welcome to the Forum. Keep in mind that as the Apple computers came out they could run the OS/Apps of the day, but it is never a good plan to buy the oldest models and expect to run the latest software offerings. On Tiger, iLife 06 with its apps were good but of course iLife has moved a lot from then. Apple phasing out has more to do with the improvements in hardware and keeping software current.
Apple will always release new OSs and Hardware in the near future, so you pays your money and takes your chance.
So iLife 08 and iWork 08 will run on Tiger and Leopard quite happily.
iLfe 09 and iWork 09 will run on Leopard and Snow Leopard quite happily, so perhaps your choice of hardware will dictate which package you should target.
PPC computers will run up to Leopard and Intel Computers will run Tiger and later.
Just as an aside i am told the Windows 7 is just a cut down version of Vista.
Hope that helps.

 

[Ikuy]

Hi I wasnt too sure where to ask my Mac problems... So i clicked on here.. Anyway. I have random noises, voices from my Mac laptop. I brought it last year and it has Mac OS X 10.5.8. It sounded like it was from a video, but when i hid all my applications that was open... nothing was there. And the noises sometimes goes on for like a few second. I dont now what the problem is and i dont now where the source is coming from. I went over to the Mac shop and he said that he needs the source so they can eliminate it... Please help!!

 

[Collin Bl]

Ikuy - do u have any of these checked in Sys Preferences;


Click for full size

 

[SlickRich]

weltman Sudan

Thanks Collin Bl for the reply!

OK I've found out some more information which might be useful, the one I'm interested in is running Mac OS Tiger and iLife 08. Will new applications (general ones used for web browsing, chatting, downloading, itunes etc) be generally well supported under Tiger and a power pc processor? or are there likely for application developers to phase this out?

I can't see many differences between Leopard and Tiger (other than visual effects) but if I wanted to upgrade to Leopard (not snow leopard as this isn't compatible), how much would this likely to cost (I can't see an upgrade package available on the apple website)?

As far as iLife08 goes, I can't see too many differences between iLife 08 and iLife 09 particularly in Garage band, so I think I'm ok for sticking with that.

The full spec is:
- Mac Mini
- 1.42 Ghz G4 Processor
- 1GB RAM
- 80GB Hard drive

Cheers!

Rich

 

[toMACsh]

Rich, advice for first Mac: It's not Windows. Forget Windows. Learn how the Mac works, then figure out how to do things most efficiently for how you work. There's usually more than one approach to a task.

Hi I wasnt too sure where to ask my Mac problems... So i clicked on here..

Click on New Topic. You'll have better luck with your own thread, as long as you don't title it "Help!" or some other lame, non-descriptive title.

 

[chas_m]

Anyway I've got a monitor, mouse etc. and I'm on a pretty tight budget so I was considering a mac mini. However even these budget line PCs start at about £500 and I was hoping for something about half that.

My general advice is to do this right or don't do it at all. Buying some five-year-old Mac is just going to make you very angry -- because once you discover how great the Mac is (and you will), you'll realise you have an obsolete bit of kit and now that you're hooked you'll have to spend ADDITIONAL money getting the Mac you should have gotten in the first place.

I'm all for bargain-hunting, but if Apple's refurb page doesn't have anything you can afford, you're not ready to step up to the Mac yet and you should keep saving till you are.

I've looked on Gumtree, Ebay etc. and found a couple of nice mac minis with G4 processors for around £200

I don't mean to be hard on the Mac mini, it's a great little machine -- but you're talking at least four years old, used, and obsolete. Can't run the latest version of the OS, current software no longer being updated for it, etc.

If your needs are well away from that of a power-user, you might be very happy with one, and certain even an old Mac is generally a better experience than most PCs -- but see above for my reasoning.

- I read in the technical specs of Snow Leopard that you can't upgrade to this on a G4 - is this a big deal and are there any significant changes between Snow Leopard and Leopard which I would be missing out on?

Yes, there are significant changes in SL -- but little that a casual user would really notice. But again: going forward, this is a bad path to be following.

Is it the same difference in usability between Vista and Windows 7?

Oh lard no. If Apple had released an OS as bad as Vista they would now be out of business. Practically instantly. Mac fans aren't really as loyal to Apple as they think they are -- they're loyal to the ELEGANCE, the quality of the whole EXPERIENCE. If a company ever came along that could top Apple in these regards, we'd all be gone like a shot.

Leopard was perfectly fine. Snow Leopard is a refinement of Leopard (thus the name).

Also this previous point has got me a bit paranoid, would you be able to upgrade to the latest version of Garage Band? and if so, how much would this be likely to cost?

Apple - iLife - System requirements for iLife on the Mac.

Basically, only the last of the G4 Mac minis, with maxed-out RAM, will really be able to handle Garageband 09. Again, see the beginning of this post.

Garageband is part of iLife. It is included free on new and refurb'd Macs, and costs $79(US) for other machines. It also includes iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD and iWeb. Bloody amazing deal.

What is the likelihood of Apple releasing another OS in the near future?

Nobody knows, but the track record is about every two years on average. I would expect 10.7 to show up sometime in 2012, meaning it will take a bit longer than Leopard-to-Snow-Leopard did.

Would they be likely to start phasing out support for key applications such as itunes on these older macs?

iTunes would be the last major Mac app to drop support for older machines I should think, but the process you describe is already happening and is well underway.

The technical specs of about 1.6ghz processor, 1GB ram doesn't look great, since you can just about get phones with this spec now.

This is why going by raw processor speed is a really dumb way to measure performance. The G4 ran rings around all but the upper end of consumer PCs in its day, and it's still fast enough for what I'd call "consumer use" today (we had until quite recently a G4 iBook in the house).

Sorry if I'm raining on your parade a bit, but I hope it becomes evident as you research this that I'm actually trying to save you money (and aggravation!!) in the long term.

 

[the8thark]

There is another thing you have overlooked. Customer service. Apple are the best in the business in that regard. And if I were you I would take a walk into an Appel store/reseller and talk tot he staff there. And they will tell everythibng you could ever wabt to know about the Mac and then some. And playing on a Mac in person is the best way to see in a Mac is for you.

If you still want an old Mac, that's ok, but the Apple store experience is still useful. So I would seriously consider that before you make your choice.

************

And on another note sure a lot of us would turn on Apple if they went sour. But I think a lot of us would not. I for one would stick around a while hoping they got good again.

I did it with Nintendo. The N64 of the whole was pretty poor in all respects, from 3rd party dev fees to the system hardware to some of the games. All bad. Only SM64 and the 2 Zelda games (ZOOT and MM) saved it from complete failure in my opinion. But I stuck out, and the Gamecube and wii rocked.

My point is some of us would wait around a while till Apple got good again. But that getting good again would have to come quick or they'd slowly die.

 

[Ikuy]

Ikuy - do u have any of these checked in Sys Preferences;


Click for full size

Hey thanks for replying. Nah non of those were on... Well.. the random noise/voice happened once again last night... it sounded like a female fluent american voice... and it also sounded like she was acting in a movie or somthing... >.> and that went on for like a few seconds until i turned on the iantivirus to scan... >,<" As usual there was no infection on my computer. Oh i forgot to mention that this random noise/voice happened a few weeks ago and it suddenly stopped... I think from last week... I started again...

 

[Lifeisabeach]

I've looked on Gumtree, Ebay etc. and found a couple of nice mac minis with G4 processors for around £200, however I have a couple of reservations, which I was wondering if people could advise me on (as I said I have no prior Mac experience other than wiggling the mouse over the pretty icons in an Apple store):-

- I read in the technical specs of Snow Leopard that you can't upgrade to this on a G4 - is this a big deal and are there any significant changes between Snow Leopard and Leopard which I would be missing out on? Is it the same difference in usability between Vista and Windows 7?

Buying a G4/G5-based Mac means you are buying directly into obsolete hardware. I would not expect Apple to ever release a new OS that supports those.

As for Snow Leopard vs Leopard… usability is roughly the same, but there are many under-the-hood enhancements that make it a much more robust, powerful OS that is setting the stage for the future. Leopard is a fine OS, but on a G4/G5, that's as good as you will ever see it.

As for Tiger… there have been so many under-the-hood changes to Leopard, and then again to Snow Leopard, that an increasing number of apps no longer support it. Don't get me wrong… Tiger still works just as well as it did the day it was released… supported apps don't simply stop working just because a newer OS is out. But you are locking yourself to something that has been seen 2 major OS revisions, and on hardware that has been phased out nearly 4 years now. Buying a G4/G5-based Mac with Tiger means you are instantly 4 years behind the rest of us with no real room for improvement (upgrading to Leopard will be very costly… the retail copies that can still be found are priced insanely high, iirc). Make no mistake on this… that will affect your experience and perception of the platform.

 

[SlickRich]

Sorry if I'm raining on your parade a bit, but I hope it becomes evident as you research this that I'm actually trying to save you money (and aggravation!!) in the long term.

Thanks to everyone who has posted! Based upon everyone's advice I've streched my budget a bit and managed to purchase a second hand mac mini with an Intel Core 2 Duo 1.83 ghz, 1.5Gb Ram, running snow leopard and with iLife 09. I realise that this still isnt the most cutting edge machine, but will hopefully be much more futureproof than the G4 Tiger mac mini I was looking at.

Right, now for my next question! I'm hoping to set up an external drive (which I already have) for all my music, photos, and some videos on my wonderful new(ish) Mac Mini. I've currently got it formatted in FAT32 (I realise that this has storage limits, but I'm not too bothered about them as they're not massive files). But I was wondering what the best Mac filesystem is, if reformatting the disk is likely to make a difference to performance on the Mac mini, and if the Mac filing system can be read by a windows PC?

Edit: I was also wondering if there is a good guide anywhere to bring me up speed with the main features of the Mac OS and how to use them?

Thanks again!

Rich

 

[toMACsh]

Edit: I was also wondering if there is a good guide anywhere to bring me up speed with the main features of the Mac OS and how to use them?

Sure. The Missing Manual is good and in-depth. Surely there's a Snow Leopard version out there by now. More basic introduction can be found in the "For Dummies" series, again, it should be out. I bought both for Leopard, since I jumped from OS 9.2 to 10.5 back in 12/07

 

[Ikuy]

Rich, advice for first Mac: It's not Windows. Forget Windows. Learn how the Mac works, then figure out how to do things most efficiently for how you work. There's usually more than one approach to a task.


Click on New Topic. You'll have better luck with your own thread, as long as you don't title it "Help!" or some other lame, non-descriptive title.

Okay cheers

 

[chas_m]

Thanks to everyone who has posted! Based upon everyone's advice I've streched my budget a bit and managed to purchase a second hand mac mini with an Intel Core 2 Duo 1.83 ghz, 1.5Gb Ram, running snow leopard and with iLife 09. I realise that this still isnt the most cutting edge machine, but will hopefully be much more futureproof than the G4 Tiger mac mini I was looking at.

Oh yes, MUCH MUCH better choice. Well done. Congrats.

But I was wondering what the best Mac filesystem is, if reformatting the disk is likely to make a difference to performance on the Mac mini, and if the Mac filing system can be read by a windows PC?

FAT32 can be read and written to by the Intel Macs no problem, **BUT** that file limitation you mention WILL come back to bite you if you want to store videos, which can easily exceed the 4GB file limit of FAT32.

You'd be wiser to format the external disk the same way the internal one is formatted, Mac OS X Extended Journaled. The "journaled" part isn't strictly necessary for a non-boot disk, but give you the flexibility of making it a boot disk if you want.

Edit: I was also wondering if there is a good guide anywhere to bring me up speed with the main features of the Mac OS and how to use them?

Mac 101 and Switch 101 and the iLife tutorials.

 

[darrelwk]

Yes, best thing you can do is check the various manuals

 

[Collin Bl]

Edit: I was also wondering if there is a good guide anywhere to bring me up speed with the main features of the Mac OS and how to use them?

Here is another worth a look.

 

[SlickRich]

That's great guys! Thanks for all of the help!

I'm loving my mac already, I can really see why you guys like them so much!