"End of the innocence for Mac fans" - BBC Report - Interesting Read

[D3v1L80Y]

Well, I guess we all knew it was coming. As macs get more and more popular and apple gains a larger market share, more trojans will be released for the mac.

Said it before... I'll say it again... market share and popularity of the platform have absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[Brown Study]

For a lot of us, the Mac world is still foreign, and it's not as easy to differentiate between scams and legitimate programs in this new world.

But what tipped you off in the old world? Would you download stuff from untrusted sites? Would you consider installing a program to allow you to view jpgs, of all things? It's no different with Macs — except that there are no viruses.

Add that to the fact that many switchers are sold on the idea that we don't need to think about this sort of stuff with a Mac (I *never* thought that, but anyway many do),

I do. I never think about viruses except in discussions about their non-existence.

. . . and that's a recipe for disaster.

I haven't had a disaster in 21 years of working with Macs.

And saying "it's a Trojan and not a Virus" is disingenuous, and dodges the point, since most non-technical folk consider all malicious programs to be a virus.

But that's their fault, and it isn't disingenuous. It would be disingenuous to tell them there are Mac viruses, simply because they don't know the difference. Would you refer to a wheel as a box for the folks who don't know the difference? If a user on a porn site downloads a "program" to view jpgs, why should doing so be called a virus?

No matter how you slice it, this is another chink in the Apple armor. If they were smart, they'd find a way to push an update through Software Update to alert users when they're about to install known viruses. . . .

Repeating the word "virus," let alone "known virus" doesn't make the thing any more real. How should Apple warn against something that doesn't exist? How would Apple "update" protection against nothing?

. . . trojans, or whatever.

I could email an AppleScript trojan directly to your machine. Five hundred thousand other people could email you 500,000 different AppleScript trojans, never mind more sophisticated "jpg viewers" and the like than would be possible with trojan AppleScripts. How and why should Apple parse one, 500,000 or a million trojans?

 

[knightlie]

No matter how you slice it, this is another chink in the Apple armor.

It certainly is not. That's the whole point of a Trojan, it fools the user into giving it privileged access to the system, it doesn't need a security flaw. The same method will work on Windows too.

Eta: And for the billionth time, this is a Trojan, NOT a virus. They are completely different.

 

[baggss]

IAnd saying "it's a Trojan and not a Virus" is disingenuous, and dodges the point, since most non-technical folk consider all malicious programs to be a virus.

No it's not and it doesn't dodge anything, it is merely the truth. They are completely different things although they are often lumped together. Just because people are to ignorant to know the difference doesn't change anything.

 

[knightlie]

And saying "it's a Trojan and not a Virus" is disingenuous, and dodges the point, since most non-technical folk consider all malicious programs to be a virus.

It's not disingenuous, and it does not doge the point. In fact, YOU are dodging the point - Trojans are not Viruses, and need to be addressed in fundamentally different ways. Non-technical folk need to learn these basics if they are to defend themselves against such things.

 

[spilio]

You guys sound like all the open source folks who designed Linux all these years for techies, and then wondered why their great OS never gained mass popularity (in spite of the price). Or guys who took years to program Thunderbird to begin replies on top because it offended their sense of netiquette.

Have you guys ever worked, with, you know.. People? Real people, I mean -- not gear heads like us who hang out on forums discussing this stuff? People who use computers as tools to accomplish things?

I know viruses and worms and trojans are all different things. But, let's try to remember that the vast vast majority of people don't know, and don't care. They want to do their work in peace - doing your taxes, doing research, curing patients, or whatever.

And telling people they're too ignorant or stupid or need to "get a clue" is not productive and most certainly does dodge the point.

J

 

[baggss]

Have you guys ever worked, with, you know.. People? Real people, I mean -- not gear heads like us who hang out on forums discussing this stuff? People who use computers as tools to accomplish things?

You mean like my wife and 14 year old daughter? Neither of them are "techies" although my wife does hangs out on some cooking forums. They both knew that Trojans and Viruses were different things.

Believe it or not, most people who "use computers to accomplish things" are pretty savvy. It's the ones who only worry about MySpace, e-mailing grandma or chatting with their "squeeze" that are generally clueless.

 

[knightlie]

You guys sound like all the open source folks who designed Linux all these years for techies, and then wondered why their great OS never gained mass popularity (in spite of the price). Or guys who took years to program Thunderbird to begin replies on top because it offended their sense of netiquette.

Have you guys ever worked, with, you know.. People? Real people, I mean -- not gear heads like us who hang out on forums discussing this stuff? People who use computers as tools to accomplish things?

I know viruses and worms and trojans are all different things. But, let's try to remember that the vast vast majority of people don't know, and don't care. They want to do their work in peace - doing your taxes, doing research, curing patients, or whatever.

And telling people they're too ignorant or stupid or need to "get a clue" is not productive and most certainly does dodge the point.

J

If you want to drive a car, you need to know how to put fuel in it, and the difference between diesel and petrol. You also need to know the difference between the many similar controls inside the vehicle. Given the number of car users in the world, the human brain seems to be able to handle this without too much trouble.

If you want to use a computer online safely, you need to know the difference between Trojans, Viruses and other malware. You also need to know the various ways you can protect yourself from them, from simple avoidance of certain websites to the installation of suitable software. The human brain can handle this perfectly well, too.

I'm not telling people to "get a clue," (your phrase, not mine), or telling them they are "ignorant" (your word, not mine) or "stupid," (your word, not mine - stop putting words in my mouth, please), I'm telling them that they should learn the basics of computer security in the same way they learn the basics of security and/or safety for many other things they do in life.

And for the final time, I am not dodging the point, I am explaining it to you, in English, using simple words. Please stop accusing people of that.

 

[robmac]

The funny thing is that Trojan Horses are usually spread through porn sites, which the journalist has clearly said. He should be speaking to his son to stop downloading porn in the first place then start moaning about Trojan Horses!

 

[mikepugs]

The funny thing is that Trojan Horses are usually spread through porn sites, which the journalist has clearly said. He should be speaking to his son to stop downloading porn in the first place then start moaning about Trojan Horses!

Haha true but he also stated that he was more worried about it getting into more mainstream sites like Youtube.

It's amazing the big deal the articles make over a a Trojan. If it were a virus, okay, but a Trojan you allow into your computer using your own neglegence. Macs work so much better at preventing anything serious being done to the internals by requirting administartor passwords even to just install a program.

With PCs a lot of times it just installs itself or can delve into the computer and ruin everything.

Doesn't lessen my love of macs one bit. Just cements the idea that we're gaining on windows.

 

[savagehenry]

Is this not truly the definition of irony?

Not so long ago, one would use Trojans to -protect- you from getting a virus....

Oh, how the world has changed (and I feel so cheated)

 

[baggss]

I just ran across this exploit froma link in another Mac forum. I have the file that it downloads and tries to install. I also have the URL for the exploit if anyone is interested in getting it to examine it closer (without installing it that is).